I've decided to come out as Marxist

Author: RemyBrown

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#31
WyIted
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@RemyBrown
Why?  Scandinavia has really high taxes and they have a higher amount of economic freedom?
The economic freedom index uses about 20 different markers

But then their economic freedom would drop to be more like ours.
They aren't that far above us but no they would rise even further in the economic index by dropping those policies.

Now, what I would do is common sense: Cite life expectancy of the countries with UHC vs the ones without it (assuming they are all 1st world).  Let me know what you get.

Life expectancy won't be a biased measure I think.

that article actually provides a case and I already explained in a debate why life expectancy is a bad marker. Life expectancy is more strongly correlated with lifestyle choices. Those on a Stadard american diet do worse than people on plant based diets. For medicine you would need to look at things like survival rates for emergency situations.
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#32
RemyBrown
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@WyIted
 Life expectancy is more strongly correlated with lifestyle choices. Those on a Stadard american diet do worse than people on plant based diets. 

Thanks for continuing the script.

Me: The vast majority of Americans and Europeans eat meat.

But if you make this claim, then do you believe being plant based is good?
#33
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@RemyBrown
So plant based has been hijacked by vegans but in the scientific literature and looking at the longest lived societies they have described places I'm the blue zone as plant based despite the societies in those zones eating some amount of meat. For example in Okinawa, before it became americanized the people had a lot of fish in their diet.

In Ikaria Greece lamb is had with a lot of meals. 

When we look at societies with heavier meat consumption than life expectancy drops but most of that  you can attribute to the amount t of processed foods eaten though. 

Americans eat a lot of processed foods but if you look at studies on 7th day Adventist who are vegetarian but still consume dairy and occasionally fish, you'll see they have life expectancies similar to blue zone areas
#34
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Yes I think plant based is good but the life expectancy of vegans is similar to those on the SAD so don't take it too far. 

I spend a lot of time looking at studies on life expectancy and staying on the bleeding edge due to my interests in radical life extension
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#35
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I'm the blue zone
Define the blue zone.

you can attribute to the amount t of processed foods eaten though. 
But I would imagine European food is often about as processed as American food.  Maybe 20% less, but if a European wants to eat a hamburger, then they will eat a hamburger.


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#36
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@WyIted
Forgot to tag you.
#37
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@RemyBrown
Define the blue zone
It's areas of the glove that seem to have a disproportionate amount of people living healthy lives well into the 90s and 100s. 


Essentially 

Sardinia, Italy; Okinawa, Japan; Nicoya, Costa Rica; Icaria, Greece and Loma Linda, California.

The blue zone studies were done a while back and Okinawa is beginning to adopt a more western diet and seeing their life expectancies drop. 

But I would imagine European food is often about as processed as American food. Maybe 20% less, but if a European wants to eat a hamburger, then they will eat a hamburger.
Correct which is why you are starting to see countries such as Germany have life expectencies decreasing at a consistent weight as they start to eat more McDonald's.
.


What's important is nutrient density and processed food seems to have less nutrient density and are in fact calorie dense. It also has scientists busy making the food as addictive as possible which usually means stuffing it with fast carbs such as sugar and flour. 
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#38
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@WyIted
Would you want the government to encourage people to eat foods that put them more in the blue zone?
#39
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@RemyBrown
Would you want the government to encourage people to eat foods that put them more in the blue zone?
Bluezones refer to the areas I mentioned. If you are asking if I would want the government mandating the lifestyles and eating habits observed of those people who live in bluezones I would say no. Undoubtedly most people's lives would be improved by following those guidelines but I find it unethical to regulate. 

Currently you have the option to adopt a nutrient dense diet, live a low stress lifestyle and create a community for yourself. The option to be like those people in the blue zones is on you
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#40
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@WyIted
Undoubtedly most people's lives would be improved by following those guidelines but I find it unethical to regulate. 
I agree, but that's why I said encourage.  My plate is what the government currently recommends.  What would you recommend in it's place?
#41
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@RemyBrown
I agree, but that's why I said encourage. My plate is what the government currently recommends. What would you recommend in it's place?
It's been a few years since I looked at it, but I think Harvard's healthy eating plate is superior, but generally speaking I would say if you follow the following advice you will be good


Advice

1. No sugar
2. No flour
3. No grains
4. No legumes or beans
5. No dairy

Most people that follow the above rules will gravitate towards nutrient dense foods. If I were to add to that I would say fruits in moderation and red meat in moderation and avoid seed oils.  

That's a long answer to say Harvards healthy plate. But Harvard came up with it's plate by using science and avoiding the influence of lobbiests
#42
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@RemyBrown
Here is a comparison

https://nutritionsource.hsph.harvard.edu/healthy-eating-plate-vs-usda-myplate/
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#43
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@WyIted
Fine, but I didn't know you trusted Ivy League schools.
#44
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@RemyBrown
It's not blind trust and distrust has more to do with experts who cherry pick daya