Mayday Mafia DP4

Author: AustinL0926

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Flips:

Lynched DP1:

Owen - Air France Flight 447 - Rolestopper-Inventor, Town

Killed NP1:

Casey - Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 - Motion Investigative JOAT, Town

Lynched DP2:

Moozer - Gimli Glider - Strengthener, Town

Lynched DP3:

Pie - ??? - ???, ???

Killed NP3:

Lunatic - Helios Airways Flight 522 – Delayed Ascetic Bleeder, Town

Deaths: 121

Terminal outcome: Uncontrolled flight into terrain due to fuel exhaustion and loss of manual control

Probable cause: Pilot incapacitation due to hypoxia, effected by a chain of failures leading to improper pressurization of the main cabin

Summary: On August 14, 2005, Helios Airways Flight 522 began a routine takeoff. However, its cabin pressurization system was improperly set due to a maintenance error, preventing it from properly pressurizing as it gained altitude.

Though the pilots were aware that something was wrong, they were unaware what exactly had happened, and interpreted the warning lights as indicating a faulty air conditioning system. Before they could diagnose the problem, they lost consciousness due to hypoxia. Investigators believe that while oxygen masks were successfully deployed, they came too late to make a difference.

The doomed plane continued flying on autopilot for about 3 hours, but could not land. Eventually, it ran out of fuel and crashed into the side of a mountain with no survivors.

Role:

Because the actual deaths of all on board the aircraft occured long after their fate became apparent, you are the Delayed Ascetic Bleeder.

If a non-lethal action is performed on you, it will fail as if roleblocked and will only take effect the next night.

If a lethal action is performed on you, you will be informed of this and will survive for another day and night phase before dying.

Legacy:

Widely considered a freak accident caused by a truly unfortunate chain of events, this tragedy nevertheless led to important changes in cockpit design. With planes getting safer and safer, pilots often become the limiting factor – in this case, the plane recognized what was wrong, but the pilots failed to correctly interpret it. Today, improved cockpit design and training aims to prevent similar accidents from occuring again.

Legacy role:

Because of this improved clarity, if you ever die, you may immediately choose to select a dead player; if their role PM is hidden or false, it will be revealed as the correct one immediately.

Earth - Uberlingen Disaster – Universal Miller, Town

Deaths: 71

Terminal outcome: Catastrophic in-flight breakup due to mid-air collision

Probable cause: Ambiguous ATC instructions compounded by flawed collision avoidance procedures

Summary: On July 1, 2002, a passenger flight, Bashkirian Airlines Flight 2937, and a commercial cargo flight, DHL Flight 611, were flying near the Swiss border with Russia in opposite directions.

Though ordinary right-of-way procedures should have had both aircraft turn right, the DHL flight requested to continue on course in order to save fuel, a standard procedure. This was approved by the ATC controller on duty, Peter Nielsen. Against procedure, his company had made him cover a section of airspace that should have been handled by at least two traffic controllers, diverting his attention and focus.

Nielsen realized the danger less than 1 minute before a potential collision, and told Flight 2937 to pull up. However, this conflicted with the pilots’ automated Traffic Control Avoidance System, which recognizes other flights in the area and was telling them to pull down.

Flight 2937 listened to Nielsen and pulled up, while the DHL flight, listening to their own TCAS, also pulled up. They collided and broke up in mid-air with no survivors.
2 years after the accident, Nielsen was murdered in front of his home by a distraught family member of one of the victims. His murderer would be released after less than four years in prison.

Role: Because the air traffic controller was blamed for the accident despite the wide variety of factors that ultimately contributed to the tragedy, you are the Universal Miller. If you are ever investigated, you will investigate as if you were a mafia carrying the night kill; for example, a Cop would investigate you as “guilty”, while a Tracker would investigate you as visiting the player who was NKed.

Legacy:

This accident led to new laws regulating how much work air traffic controllers could be allowed to take by their company. In addition, pilots received training to always listen to TCAS, even in priority over ATC orders.

Legacy role:

Despite the horrific accident and aftermath, this accident was one of the most impactful in terms of preventing future ones like it. As such, you are the 1-shot Angel: the night phase after you die, you may choose one player to be protected from an lethal actions that night.

Living Players:

1. whiteflame
2. Banana
3. Cerulean

Deadline:

The DP ends 72 hours from the first player post in the thread.

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@whiteflame
@Cerulean
@iamanabanana
Final destination...
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@whiteflame
@Cerulean
@iamanabanana
NOTE: I may have made a mistake resolving night actions. Please HOLD and do not post while I double check something.
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I need to check with my comod regarding what happened last night. I am very sorry for the delay. Again, please do not post for now.
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And then there was three!

Well, I roleblocked Cerulean. Considering there was a night kill, I guess that means that it's whiteflame since there was a night kill. Unless I am missing something?
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@whiteflame
@Cerulean
What do you guys think?
Mharman
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@iamanabanana
Glad to see you’re here and ready to play this DP! However, Post #4.

Sorry for the inconvenience. I feel extra bad because this is your first game. Most games are not this scuffed, I promise.
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@Mharman
oops
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@iamanabanana
You’re fine.

Just sit tight.
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@whiteflame
@Cerulean
@iamanabanana
You can post again. I am very sorry about that, it will be explained postgame. Good luck
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@AustinL0926
Alright, thanks for working at it.
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@iamanabanana
And then there was three!

Well, I roleblocked Cerulean. Considering there was a night kill, I guess that means that it's whiteflame since there was a night kill. Unless I am missing something?
Before I get to a bigger post giving my reasoning, I'll respond to this. Your roleblock, successful or not (was it noted to be successful in the PM you received?), would not have prevented the NK. You're welcome to verify that with Austin, but roleblocks typically only affect the ability of your target to use their role, not to execute the night kill. 
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@Cerulean
@iamanabanana
I'll start by saying what I did NP3: I used my 1X Cop on Banana, and she copped innocent. I previously targeted Cerulean twice, he showed up as the same as Pie with the Parity Cop, and he showed up as innocent with the Dreamer. That makes it very likely that he's the Godfather (Pie was likely Lawyered NP2, so they both looked investigated innocent based on their roles). We already know from DP2 that there is a Godfather in this game, and that there is likely either a Framer or Lawyer to make someone investigate differently than they normally would. These are not surprises at this point - they are common knowledge. There's always the chance that Banana is the Godfather, but frankly, I just don't believe it. There's too much evidence out of DP1 that Banana's been honest about her role, and I don't think she'd claim to be the Roleblocker if she was. If she was a more experienced player, I'd believe it's possible. I just don't believe it here.

So, I'm going to focus on the evidence I have for my innocence and what I have on Cerulean that makes me think he's scum.

For me, look at Earth's flip. He was the Universal Miller, which investigates guiltily whether by a Cop investigation or by a Tracker. He could have been just a Miller, or he could have been another role that just investigates as though they visited the target of the NK. He's a combination of the two, which suggests the existence of a Tracker (which we know Casey was) and a Cop (which I have said I am). It would be an incredibly bastard mod move to create a role that is meant to fudge results of two different types investigators and then only have one of those types in the game. Beyond that, if I wanted to get a mislynch, I very easily could have fabricated either of the results I've given so far, especially my Dreamer result. My results were basically useless, not to mention they came out at odd times. Why would I claim that my Dreamer was stopped only to get a result after we knew there was a Godfather and Lawyer/Framer in the game? I'd have to give up on any potential gain from my fake role early for you to believe that I'm scum.

For Cerulean, he's admittedly been hard to pin down since a lot of his behavior up to this point hasn't really set me off. But let's look at that claim. He said he's the Conditional Vigilante. He said:

If I ever correctly guess the nightkill, I get a Vigilante charge. Which, of course, I haven't (I guessed Banana on N1 for being a universal townread and WF on N2 for being an Investigative claim).
Well, he made a mistake. We've seen a Conditional Vigilante before, and recently. JoeBob was the Conditional Vigilante a couple of games back in the Shocking T.V. Moments Mafia game. Note what his role says:

Each night you can select a player. If you target the person who is carrying out the night kill, you will kill them.
I guess you could argue that this is just a different iteration of the Conditional Vigilante, but with Luna's flip, that falls flat. We know that a lethal role used on Luna resulted in a delayed outcome. How, exactly, does a role like this work with that role? Would he have to guess Luna the night he is shot or the night he dies? With Casey alone, maybe this was believable because he was technically out of the game after he was shot, but nothing about the role as Cerulean stated it makes sense with a delayed death. Presumably, that's in his PM, and I'm sure he'll have a lot to say about that now that he sees Luna's flip and has to come up with some excuse for how his role accounts for it.

Finally, even if you don't believe any of the above analysis of Cerulean's role, the fundamental fact is that he has nothing to support the existence of the role. Oh darn, he just missed the target of the NK 3 time in a row. How unlucky can you get? All we have to go off of for Cerulean's claim is his claim. We don't have any other roles that even partially confirm him - if anything, we have at least one role that calls his claim into question.
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@whiteflame
@iamanabanana
Hey all, checking in from work. I'll be around in a few (4-5 hours) to start looking back over Days, asking questions, and piecing things together.

A couple of early questions off the top of my head, though-

Banana, can you double check what WF just said about roleblocks? I find it surprising and if we're on the same team here I'd like fewer barriers to finding each other. Also, I'd like to know why you picked the roleblock targets you did.

WF, can you tell me about your reasoning for the investigations you did? (I get the feeling that you think it's me, but bear with me for at least a little while here.)
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@Cerulean
WF, can you tell me about your reasoning for the investigations you did? (I get the feeling that you think it's me, but bear with me for at least a little while here.)
My first choices (for the Dreamer) were largely focused on reducing PoE. I actually believed both you and Casey were town, so I chose both of you with the intent of ruling you out entirely and seeing if Moozer was scum. Didn't end up accomplishing that since I got the results late.

My second choices (for the Parity Cop) were because I started sussing you in DP2 as we were whittling down PoE. After the DP ended and Moozer flipped innocent, I had Pie pegged as pulling a gambit with his fake Silencing, and figured you were his most likely teammate. I also knew my role was likely useless at that point since scum have a Godfather and a role meant to manipulate my results. I figured it was likely that you and Pie saved a Lawyer for NP2 when PoE would put you two in the crosshairs, so I suspected you'd both investigate innocent, but then so would anybody else except Earth. So it didn't really matter who I chose given what I knew.

My third choice (for the Cop) was Banana because, since you had investigated innocent and then investigated the same as Pie (who we now know is scum), I can only imagine you're the Godfather. That would be the explanation for why you would investigate innocent NP1 and investigate the same as Pie NP2 (one of you has to be Godfather, so one of you would investigate innocent regardless of other roles). So I chose Banana because I hadn't investigated her yet (despite my read on her, that's still something I wanted to see), and because your results were already virtually a given.

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@Cerulean
Banana, can you double check what WF just said about roleblocks? I find it surprising and if we're on the same team here I'd like fewer barriers to finding each other. Also, I'd like to know why you picked the roleblock targets you did.
I just double checked because when I first asked Austin if he made a mistake (I thought I was mafia) his reasoning for why a Roleblocker would be town is that I could prevent a night kill. He just re-confirmed to me that a roleblocker can block night kills. But I don't want to discount that something could have interfered with my role yet.

The first night I roleblocked pie, he was in my pool of suspects, which again were: Whiteflame, Pie, Casey and Owen. I settled on pie because I didn't like that he didn't take a stance at all by the end of the game despite being there the whole day phase, and he was very aggressive earlier with Moozer. He was also one of the ones casting doubt on all the blocking roles being town, and I know I am town so that rang like he was trying to cause a lynch on an innocent. So far everyone who claimed to be a blocking type of role has been town as well.

Night 2, I blocked earth because of the doubt about there being a miller, and I figured it wouldn't harm him since if he was a visiting role, then he had lied anyway.

And last night I blocked you because your role seemed most harmful to the town if it was successful. Also I do agree with the logic that has been stated about a cop not existing in a game where there is a role like earths in it seems very strange. You seemed like the best net option to potentially stop a night kill.
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@whiteflame
Before I get to a bigger post giving my reasoning, I'll respond to this. Your roleblock, successful or not (was it noted to be successful in the PM you received?), would not have prevented the NK. You're welcome to verify that with Austin, but roleblocks typically only affect the ability of your target to use their role, not to execute the night kill. 
 I was not told that I was succesful or otherwise. I am asking him now. He did tell me that I can block a night kill though.
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@iamanabanana
I was not told that I was succesful or otherwise. I am asking him now. He did tell me that I can block a night kill though.
Alright, I stand corrected. Considering that scum roles have precedence over town roles, though, and considering that scum knew your role could interfere with them while mine could not, I'd take that into account when you consider whether Cerulean could have committed the NK despite your targeting him.

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@whiteflame
Alright, I stand corrected. Considering that scum roles have precedence over town roles, though, and considering that scum knew your role could interfere with them while mine could not, I'd take that into account when you consider whether Cerulean could have committed the NK despite your targeting him.
Is there a role that could have interrupted or messed with my role that wouldn't straight up tell me if I was not successful or not? I do find it strange that I would be left alive as town with a role like this, unless it just wasn't a threat to the mafia team, or I was going to be the target of the mislynch. I would be more suspicious of you if you had tried to use this against me to lynch me, but the fact that you seem to be going after cerulean is making me question that.

My head hurts lol
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@iamanabanana
Is there a role that could have interrupted or messed with my role that wouldn't straight up tell me if I was not successful or not? I do find it strange that I would be left alive as town with a role like this, unless it just wasn't a threat to the mafia team, or I was going to be the target of the mislynch. I would be more suspicious of you if you had tried to use this against me to lynch me, but the fact that you seem to be going after cerulean is making me question that.

My head hurts lol
That depends on the mod. Usually, if it's an investigative role like mine, any mod will tell you if your role fails (you won't get information, so that alone will be pretty telling). If we're talking about other roles like yours, a mod may decide not to tell you if your role was successful. 

As I see it, at least from where you're sitting, the question of who to lynch depends on a few factors:

1) Whether you trust that your role was successful (remember, there are three people left in the game and yours and Cerulean's roles are the only ones that are relevant given what we know scum has).
2) Whether you believe my role based on the existence of Earth in the game.
3) Whether you believe that Cerulean has missed the correct target 3 times in a row and has a means of explaining why his role exists in a game with a delayed NK result.

We've both given reasoning for our targets. My information is, unfortunately, largely useless (might have mattered if I'd targeted Pie during NP1, but not much even then), so my investigations aren't going to be much help, and even if they were, I don't think you should trust the results as we know they are being manipulated. So, however you see the above, the ball's in your court.
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I'm going to need to focus on my work for the next hour or so. Suffice it to say that my vote is set to be on Cerulean at this stage, but I'd like to give him at least some chance to speak in his defense.
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Vote count 4.1:

[NONE]

Bullish
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Who am I replacing

So ready to quick hammer
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Cerulean has arrived. Let's get this thing started. Or continued, I suppose.

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@Bullish
No one. We were considering replacing someone out for a reason we'll give later, but we decided not to replace them out.

I was messaging you ahead of time. Sorry to disappoint.
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^What Mharman said.

Also, forgot to say this earlier, but don't speculate about it in thread. It's not alignment indicative, it just had to do with night actions.
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this is so scuffed; we mods apologize for this
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@whiteflame
@iamanabanana
...Uh? I'm going to ignore that.

I was coming into today thinking things pointed towards Banana but honestly, WF is making me way less sure of it. Let's address the case on me he's got first.

We already know from DP2 that there is a Godfather in this game
Wrong, actually. We know there's "a passive role that allows them to appear innocent to investigations." That could be a Godfather, but it doesn't have to be. If Austin meant Godfather, he could have just said Godfather. There's a reason it was asked on Day 3 what passive role might exist. If it was guaranteed, that wouldn't be a question he asked.

There's always the chance that Banana is the Godfather, but frankly, I just don't believe it. There's too much evidence out of DP1 that Banana's been honest about her role, and I don't think she'd claim to be the Roleblocker if she was. If she was a more experienced player, I'd believe it's possible. I just don't believe it here.
We're talking about a team that contains Pie, who pretended to be silenced and fake claimed Innocent Child. Why is it completely out of the question for him to have told Banana to claim Roleblocker?

This is frankly my biggest issue with your play today and kind of yesterday WF and I'll get into it more later.

It would be an incredibly bastard mod move to create a role that is meant to fudge results of two different types investigators and then only have one of those types in the game.
This is flat out untrue. You're telling me you've never played or hosted a game where a role had unnecessary details that widens claim space for scum? You've never had a game where "They will die unless protected" without protective roles was stated in a role card? I can look at quite literally the last game here and pull an example:

If you ever die in the night, all lethal actions in the subsequent night will be negated. (Martyr role, Indian Politicians Mafia)
There were no killing roles in that game besides the Mafia. By the logic in your case, "all" could be considered misleading because there was only every one possible lethal action per night.

Beyond that, if I wanted to get a mislynch, I very easily could have fabricated either of the results I've given so far, especially my Dreamer result.
Sure, but that would put you in a 1f1 with someone, and with Lunatic on you pretty much at all times this game, that wouldn't be a very good outcome.

I guess you could argue that this is just a different iteration of the Conditional Vigilante
Why is this an "I guess"? The term "Conditional" is pretty clearly open to multiple different potential conditions, so I don't see any reason why you're sussing that my condition isn't identical to Joebob's from a different game with a different host.

with Luna's flip, that falls flat. We know that a lethal role used on Luna resulted in a delayed outcome. How, exactly, does a role like this work with that role? Would he have to guess Luna the night he is shot or the night he dies? With Casey alone, maybe this was believable because he was technically out of the game after he was shot, but nothing about the role as Cerulean stated it makes sense with a delayed death.
I didn't quote my role PM exactly because we're... not supposed to do that? Regardless, you can figure out pretty intuitively what it's supposed to mean with respect to Lunatic's role. It's guessing the target of the Night Kill. So Casey, then Lunatic, then Earth would be the correct answers. I did double check with Austin because I guessed Lunatic was going to get killed (due to being semi-confirmed by the BPV and frankly by pushing Pie), and I wanted to be sure that was why it didn't go off. You didn't bother to even ask me about this before throwing an accusation.

the fundamental fact is that he has nothing to support the existence of the role. Oh darn, he just missed the target of the NK 3 time in a row. How unlucky can you get?
Uh-huh. And tell me, which one of those kills would you have nailed?
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@whiteflame
1) Whether you trust that your role was successful (remember, there are three people left in the game and yours and Cerulean's roles are the only ones that are relevant given what we know scum has).
2) Whether you believe my role based on the existence of Earth in the game.
3) Whether you believe that Cerulean has missed the correct target 3 times in a row and has a means of explaining why his role exists in a game with a delayed NK result.
All good points. I can see some leeway on 3 though, as I seemingly was never able to block a night kill either.
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@whiteflame
@iamanabanana
In any case, the narrative against me falls flat because it doesn't fit if I'm the active Mafia and it doesn't fit if I'm the passive Mafia. And we know there's one of each because the info outright said:
Scum have a passive role (Godfather, Ninja, or something like that) that allows them to appear innocent to investigations. In addition, they have an active role (the JOAT, presumably) capable of causing false investigative reports.
The initial case you gave was that I was passive:
That makes it very likely that he's the Godfather (Pie was likely Lawyered NP2, so they both looked investigated innocent based on their roles).
because you investigated me as Innocent twice. But if that's the case and I was passive, how could I possible have killed on Night 3? I would have been roleblocked, unless you're specifically trying to say that I investigate as innocent and I'm roleblock immune, which is extremely powerful when Town power is significantly concentrated in roleblocks.

But then later, when you're talking to Banana, you say:
Considering that scum roles have precedence over town roles, though, and considering that scum knew your role could interfere with them while mine could not, (WF talking to Banana)
Which implies that I would need to be the active Mafia in order to stop Banana from roleblocking me- but then how was I able to elude investigation twice in a row? Most JOATs I've ever seen either have only one charge total per ability or they need to cycle through everything in order to use something again. Casey's JOAT is like that, the JOAT you've claimed is like that

The narrative just does not make sense no matter which way you slice it. I can't be the active JOAT because you investigated me Innocent twice in a row and I can't be the passive Godfather (or whatever it might be) because I wouldn't have been able to get the nightkill off.