Tabula Rasa Liberalism and it's impacts

Author: WyIted

Posts

Total: 39
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,161
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@WyIted
It is unnerving but the good thing is that it makes murder and rape ethical
It makes murder and rape probably ethical, for all you know through enormous coincidence your victim made the 'right' choices to be in your universe at the time of the crime.


ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,161
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@WyIted
For example it [QM] says future choices can effect past events
That is neither implied nor required by any experiment or theory of QM.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,605
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@WyIted
You do, because there was a single creative force that created the universe and that is apart from the universe.
If I choose my choices, that is infinity regress.

This creative force has split his personality into billions of people and this creative force (God) chooses whatever he wants to and is above the laws of physics.
If anyone chooses his choices, that is infinity regress.

Your brain which could be referred to as the radio can impact randomness
This is circular reasoning. You say that randomness makes choices, but that choices make randomness. Thus, there is still no choice, because the circle isnt chosen.

as shown in double slit experiments. So the creative force using the brain as a radio has free will and it is expressed on the quantum level which impacts the atomic level and has a cascading effect. 
This is talking about results of if free will existed, not if free will exists.

You could also see platos cave for a theory that can help explain how free will escapes the cause oriented universe
Sadly, it cannot escape anything.

There are only 3 options we know of:

1. Randomness or out of nothing
Randomness is not a choice, since randomness is by definition not chosen. Not chosen is not a choice.

Out of nothing is not a choice either, since one cannot choose what comes out of nothing. If one cannot choose, its not a choice.

2. Having a cause 
Cause of choice isnt chosen. Cause of choice isnt a choice. What isnt choice isnt chosen.

3. Being circular, choice causes itself.
This is like saying that cause of choice is a choice, or that "A causes A".

It is divided on two options:

Every choice being a choice of another choice, thus infinity regress.
Or
Just one choice, caused by itself.

Neither of these are choices, since even if choice causes choice or causes itself, you still cannot choose which choice is caused by itself. If you cannot choose which choice is caused by itself, then neither of those two options are choices.

To make it simple, no circle of logic you can come up with can be a choice, as every circle of logic exists independent of choice. Existing independent of choice cannot be a choice.

Not even future choice affecting past solves this, because future choice isnt chosen. What isnt chosen cannot solve this.
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 5,450
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
It's a concept known as retrocausality. Future events determining the past

https://theconversation.com/quantum-mechanics-how-the-future-might-influence-the-past-199426
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,605
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
You being the program.

The computer does not determine the software, the computer executes the software. If you identify as the software, you are the physical determinant. Hence free will
This is circular reasoning. It is equal of saying "if you have free will, you have free will".

You still didnt explain what makes the software.
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 5,450
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@Best.Korea
You are still getting first cause wrong and this first cause being understood correctly is key for all of this. God can choose to create himself or not. He transcends space time and the laws of nature
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,605
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@WyIted
You are still getting first cause wrong and this first cause being understood correctly is key for all of this
Not an argument.

God can choose to create himself or not. He transcends space time and the laws of nature
Saying that you can choose still doesnt mean you have free will.

Law of identity (A = A) cannot be negated in any way in this case, because if you say God can abolish the fact that choice can only be a choice, all it would do is negate the choice, thus disprove free will and not negate the case against free will.

To make it simple:

Choice = choice

God abolishing "choice = choice" = "choice =/= choice".

Thus, the only way to abolish law of identity is to abolish choice as a choice.

As long as something which isnt a choice takes part in existence of choice, choice doesnt exist by tautology, since tautology demands that "not choice" cannot take part in choice, by law of identity.

Choice(free will) = Everything is a choice

Thus, anything not being a choice = no free will

We see that there is no logic which can make choice out of things which are not choice.
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 31
Posts: 5,450
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@Best.Korea
"As long as something which isnt a choice takes part in existence of choice, choice doesnt exist by tautology, since tautology demands that "not choice" cannot take part in choice, by law of identity"


Like I said. There is nothing prior to the choice of God deciding to exist or not and it is done in a vacuum.nothing could cause that choice because nothing existed, not even God until he decided to. 

Why also have QM which negates your premises of cause and effect existing at certain levels of reality. Primary levels in fact
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,605
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@WyIted
Like I said. There is nothing prior to the choice of God deciding to exist
If there is nothing deciding that choice should exist, then choice isnt chosen, thus even God lacks free will.

nothing could cause that choice because nothing existed
That is the point. Choice isnt chosen.

Why also have QM which negates your premises of cause and effect existing at certain levels of reality
As explained before, while not everything needs a cause, free will by tautology needs to choose a choice it cannot choose.