The first Jew was a POS (The story of Jacob)

Author: WyIted

Posts

Total: 20
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,462
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
The first Jew was Jacob, he had a twin brother named Esau. Prior to the twin's births God gave a prophecy. The older twin would serve the younger twin and be more prosperous. 

When it came time to give birth Esau came out first, but Jacob was said to grab his heal and pull him back in and then came out prior. That would make Esau technically the oldest though there is an argument for either. 

It should be noted that Jacob means "one who grabs the heal" which at the time was also a phrase to mean deceiver but preachers and rabbis who recite this story either ignore this dual meaning or use some sort of cope. 

Esau was big and hairy, with red hair. He was a strapping young lad who hunted. Jacob was more effeminate and was a Shephard. 

While growing up at one point Esau had come in from a pretty vicious hunt. He was starving to death and in fact if he did not eat soon he would die. Jacob being the piece of shit he is says to his brother "give me your birth right and I will give you some food". Esau knew his birthright was no good if he was dead, so he agreed.

When you hear a rabbi speak of this story they will praise this evil deed as smart on Jacob's part or some other such nonsense. Really this is just some dick head fucking over his brother. 

Anyway more time passes and the father of these young men is about to die. His sight has faded but he pretty much has his wits about him. He knows he is about to die so he sends esau off to hunt and prepare his favorite dish. 

Jacob's mother tells him and decides to help Jacob once again do something really shitty. She covers Jacob with the hair of a wool  so he is hairy like esau and has him prepare dad's favorite dish while Esau is hunting.

Jacob prepares the dish and comes to his father's death bed.

He says "Dad it is me esau with the dish you asked for"

Dad says "is it really you esau? Come closer so I may give you your blessing (inheritance). So Jacob comes closer and his dad feels his skin and feels the sheep skin he strapped to himself and says, "it is the voice of Jacob but the skin of esau" and asks once again "Is it really you Esau?". Jacob again lies and says it is and then the Dad gives Jacob Esau's birth right. 

Pretty shit thing in general. I have a brother so this story hits me in the feels. I could never do that. Anyway sometime later Jacob leaves for a town where his cousin lives so he can marry her. This is because for whatever reason cousin marriage was preferred at the time. He ru s into his father's brother and promises to work for him for 7 years for his youngest daughter. 

After 7 years he has earned the right to marry the youngest girl but the father puts a fast one and swaps her with her much uglier older sister tricking Jacob. A much deserved trick it was. That's karma bitch, but Jacob just works another 7 years and earns the you gest daughter and yadda yadda dad tries to essentially enslave him so he takes off with his brides and the flock he has earned and heads back home.

Jacob being a piece of shit is not over yet. He gets close to home and fears Esau's wrath. So knowing that Esau might be vengeful and want to murder he has the women and children go first. How brave. His brother did not murder his wife and kids so he decided to meet Esau and started begging him.

"Please Esau let me give you my flocks etc."

Esau says "hey brother I love you I am just glad you are back"

As any normal good brother would but eventually after much begging from Jacob Esau did accept some token gifts .

They lived near each other and Jacob and his family grew too big so they expanded and started bumping into a new tribe. This new tribe thought it was a good ideal to make peace with Jacob so they could intermarry and be good neighbors with trade and other things.

Jacob being the piece of shit he is, concocts a plot. 

He tells the other tribe they have a custom that they can only marry other jews and need to be circumcised. These were such good people they quickly converted to Judaism and circumcised themselves. A few days later when all the men were essentially in bed recovering from such a painful thing, Jacob went in there and mass murdered all the males and kept all the women and merchandise for himself 

That's the story of one of the biggest pieces of shits to ever live and Jews think this guy is awesome and a model for all Jews.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@WyIted
These were such good people they quickly converted to Judaism and circumcised themselves.
These were such stupid people they quickly converted to Judaism and circumcised themselves.

Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
I guess its too much to ask from people to leave my dick alone.
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,462
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@Best.Korea
They thought they would have lifelong peace and prosperity in exchange for swapping some superstitions for others. It seems fair. It's like asking a DC person to switch to Marvel in exchange for prosperity and peace for the remainder of their lives
whiteflame
whiteflame's avatar
Debates: 27
Posts: 4,822
4
6
10
whiteflame's avatar
whiteflame
4
6
10
-->
@WyIted
That’s kinda the point. Jacob is a very effective character to use for the part of the Torah that he occupies precisely because he’s a piece of shit. I like his brother better.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@WyIted
They thought they would have lifelong peace and prosperity in exchange for swapping some superstitions for others.
I dont see what peace and prosperity is caused or guaranteed by extreme pain and bent mutilated penis, but then again, I am not Jew, muslim or Christian.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,597
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Best.Korea
    
  Wink, wink
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,462
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@whiteflame
That’s kinda the point. Jacob is a very effective character to use for the part of the Torah that he occupies precisely because he’s a piece of shit. I like his brother better.
I am not going to lie. It is kind of inspirational.  To think you can be a terrible person but God can still bless you if you are part of his plan. 

I mean just do God's will and you will be blessed, but also work on becoming better. 

Nome of us deserve God's blessings but he is kind enough to look past our faults. It's not that different than the message of Jesus honestly though with a better hero. 
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,462
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@Best.Korea
I dont see what peace and prosperity is caused or guaranteed by extreme pain and bent mutilated penis,
The proposed peace referring back to op is intermarriage and the ability to trade freely with a neighboring people. 

It's just stupid reductions on your part?

What good is a piece of plastic?

Bro it's a credit card with an unlimited spending cap. It's not about the act itself or in the latter case a piece ofnplastic, but the perception of the benefits. Yes they fucked up and trusted the wrong people, but it's not cutting off pieces of their penis for some imaginary benefit it was more like a trade deal that one side broke the contract of
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,638
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@WyIted
The proposed peace referring back to op is intermarriage and the ability to trade freely with a neighboring people. 
Such marriage and trade ability didnt happen.

It's just stupid reductions on your part?
It's not stupid reductions on my part. I simply claim those people were dumb.

What good is a piece of plastic?
I dont think plastic existed at the time.

Bro it's a credit card with an unlimited spending cap.
No, its not a credit card with an unlimited spending cap.

It's not about the act itself or in the latter case a piece ofnplastic, but the perception of the benefits.
There are no benefits to said act.

Yes they fucked up and trusted the wrong people,
Thats just a different way of saying they were stupid.

but it's not cutting off pieces of their penis for some imaginary benefit it was more like a trade deal that one side broke the contract of
There is no benefit. There is no trade deal since babies didnt agree to have their penises cut, thus no "deal" exists.
ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,169
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@WyIted
I am not going to lie. It is kind of inspirational.  To think you can be a terrible person but God can still bless you if you are part of his plan. 
It was a little baitey to say "the first Jew".

The imperfections of mankind in general are a constant theme in the bible. I've seen many stories that are more preachy than the bible (which is funny to think about).

There are two great mistakes in literature: To have perfect characters and the opposite extreme of having no heroic elements in any characters.

Man cannot see himself in a flawless being or a hopeless being.
WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,462
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
There are two great mistakes in literature: To have perfect characters and the opposite extreme of having no heroic elements in any characters.
This is a huge problem with the sjws infecting Hollywood lately. The female and minority characters can't have flaws which makes them unrelatable and the story shit. 

It was a little baitey to say "the first Jew".
Probably but he is considered the father of the 12 tribes of Israel. 

The imperfections of mankind in general are a constant theme in the bible
Yeah but this guy really pisses me off for some reason. Part of it is because God seems to prefer him over his brother, and his brother is forgiving and honorable and hard working and it's just like WTF?

He tends to use imperfect vessels though, I guess to make his message stronger. It's likely what us happening with Trump now. These things that just fall in his favor that are one in a million chances.

The atheists seeing this think Christians see him as being like a religious figure but the opposite is true. He is quite obviously a womanizer, narcissistic a bit petty. Not to take away from the fact he is honorable in a lot of ways as well. Everyone knows this guy is probably going to hell, but he is also making the country better and fulfilling God's plan.

Moses was like that as well. Dude was a murderer, Paul was probably a serial killer, Noah was a huge dick to his son who walked in on him being naked and drunk, not to mention Noah fucking his daughters "by accident". 

It's almost like God showing off. I am going to take the biggest pieces of shits I can find and just turn them into tools for my purposes. 
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@WyIted
The first Jew was Jacob
The first Jew was Abraham.
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@WyIted
The first Jew was Jacob
The first Jew was Abraham.
Unless you are talking tribe, then the first Jew was Judah.

ADreamOfLiberty
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 4,169
3
2
2
ADreamOfLiberty's avatar
ADreamOfLiberty
3
2
2
-->
@WyIted
The imperfections of mankind in general are a constant theme in the bible
Yeah but this guy really pisses me off for some reason. Part of it is because God seems to prefer him over his brother, and his brother is forgiving and honorable and hard working and it's just like WTF?
The idea pisses you off or do you actually believe in god and actually believe god was unjust?

I don't believe in that god or any other unprovable but disprovable and disproven god, there are contradictions; but as long as you believe in heaven it's easy to say "well that was just earthly injustice, things worked out in the end".


It's almost like God showing off. I am going to take the biggest pieces of shits I can find and just turn them into tools for my purposes. 
Well, you're glossing over all the virtues of these characters.

You're also ignoring the possibility that these people lived in really nasty cultures and maybe they weren't even below average for morality. In the other thread you have Swagnarok straight faced excommunicating the entire Russian orthodox church because it refuses to admit Putin is the antichrist and should be tortured to death already.

Paul didn't kill people for pleasure, he was a zealot; which in my opinion isn't that much worse than a soldier fighting for the wrong cause. Moses's homicide was a little more than simple murder.

One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to his people and saw their forced labor. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his kinsfolk. 12 He looked this way and that, and seeing no one he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand. 13 When he went out the next day, he saw two Hebrews fighting; and he said to the one who was in the wrong, “Why do you strike your fellow Hebrew?” 14 He answered, “Who made you a ruler and judge over us? Do you mean to kill me as you killed the Egyptian?” Then Moses was afraid and thought, “Surely the thing is known.” 15 When Pharaoh heard of it, he sought to kill Moses.
But Moses fled from Pharaoh. He settled in the land of Midian, and sat down by a well.
Being infuriated at a cruel slaver isn't the height of depravity.

It's not that I'm condoning any of it. I'm saying the average person is far less noble than you seem to imply by placing these people far below them. It's more like most people are too lazy or cowardly to even take up a misguided mission.
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,597
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Sidewalker
Yes, Abraham, 1813-1638 BCE, is considered the first Jew.
A native of Mesopotamia, he rejected the idolatrous ways of his ancestors and contemporaries; he was the first person to use his own cognitive abilities to discover and recognize the one G‑d. He then actively publicized his newfound monotheistic beliefs among his fellow citizens.
Eventually  G-d revealed Himself to Abraham and commanded him to leave his ancestral home and travel to the land of Canaan (later known as the Land of Israel). G‑d then promised this land as the eternal inheritance of his descendants.
Abraham took upon himself the observance of the mitzvot (divine commandments) and at the age of 99 he followed G‑d's command to circumcise himself and the men of his household.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,071
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@WyIted
The first Jew, was the first person to coin the phrase.
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,071
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@FLRW
Yep.

Incestuous dick fiddling.

Really sums up an omni-sensible super-intelligent creator that.

Was GOD so pissed off with his own dick design?

Me thinks that old Abe was just a perv.

Must have been all those revelations in the wilderness.
Stephen
Stephen's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 8,615
3
2
2
Stephen's avatar
Stephen
3
2
2
-->
@Sidewalker
The first Jew was Jacob
The first Jew was Abraham.


Nope. Abe, was a Hebrew from Mesopotamia.  It was only when "god" - once again - ordered a name change from Jacob to Israel that the idea of Jew and Jewishness had its roots. Jew simply means of Judah/ of Judaea/ a Judaean.

WyIted
WyIted's avatar
Debates: 32
Posts: 5,462
3
4
9
WyIted's avatar
WyIted
3
4
9
-->
@ADreamOfLiberty
The idea pisses you off or do you actually believe in god and actually believe god was unjust?
It feels like an injustice to me. Obviously we only get the highlight reel reading the bible.

"well that was just earthly injustice, things worked out in the end".
We don't know that God being real would necessitate an afterlife and the concept of afterlife in fact doesn't appear too much in the Torah. The only mention of it I can think of is with some person contorting with the dead, but tradition has it that it was demons disguising themselves as the dead. 

You're also ignoring the possibility that these people lived in really nasty cultures and maybe they weren't even below average for morality. In the other thread you have Swagnarok straight faced excommunicating the entire Russian orthodox church because it refuses to admit Putin is the antichrist and should be tortured to death already.

Swagbarok is being unreasonable. The church should aim to bring him to christ and demonizing him won't help, plus their continued existence is probably a high priority. A principled loser is still a loser. 

As far as nasty culture is concerned, these people seem even Nasty for their own culture. This is why their peers see their actions as deplorable. David sending some crush's husband's to the front line do he can steal his wife. 

Moses was chastised by his fellow Hebrews for killing a man out of anger. 

Jacob's form of brutishness was so rare that the neighbor tribe he slaughtered was taken completely by surprise. So it does seem these individuals were bad. 

It's hard for the theology derived from the Bible to escape the real world and perhaps that's because it is misinterpreted a lot. Perhaps you can argue it is untrue, but it's really easy not to lie when you are sheltered, but in the real world it might be the only way to obtain your first real job unless you just get lucky. 

It's easy not to exploit slave labor in a sheltered environment until you have a wedding to attend and need a suit to go or court or to the office. 

The lessons of these stories, vary. However one theme is that God can turn your bad into good. He won't erase what you did but he is so powerful that he can turn it to good. 

He chose disgusting individuals to show us that anybody can receive his blessings. If somebody offering their daughter to a mob to be gang raped can be saved by God, well you can be also.

It's not that I'm condoning any of it. I'm saying the average person is far less noble than you seem to imply by placing these people far below them. It's more like most people are too lazy or cowardly to even take up a misguided mission.
Make no mistake I see most people as evil. Your last point about cowardice and laziness is actually what makes a lot of people proud of their own track record. "I Never do anything bad" is potentially a catchphrase of theirs and they avoid bad by lacking ambition and being cowards. 

Like Jordan Peterson says. A lot of people fancy themselves good because they don't do evil things out of cowardice and if given some power you may see their true nature. Essentially it describes most democrat politicians. A good person is one who is capable of great evil but doesn't do it anyway.