Indian Politicians Mafia DP2

Author: ILikePie5

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#121
Lunatic
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@Earth
Are you guys going to full claim?
I am not really sure that I need to honestly. Definitely willing to character claim if needed but yeah I have a very confirmable role. If whiteflame or the kingmaker want me to claim at any point I will. 
#122
Lunatic
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@whiteflame
I agree, the role itself isn't something he'd come up with. My other concern, as it has been for every game like this, is that we know scum had the opportunity to ask Pie about two roles. Picking one that a) is distinctly out of left field, one none of us has seen before, b) one with an obvious means of role confirmation, and c) claiming its usage on the person who is the Queen this DP doesn't jive with the reality of what scum have at their disposal. I really don't like his claim at all, but unless his goal was to make himself stand out via a series of strange choices, I have a distinctly hard time seeing him as scum. I may be applying some WIFOM to this, but this series of decisions seems absolutely nonsensical if he's scum.

I agree with all of this. Owen from a WIFOM perspective seems town as hell. Then again the only thing haunting me about that is he kind of played the same way as scum confidently in villains mafia and was widely town read for wifom and similar reasons, so it' s something I'll have to consider. 
#123
JoeBob
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@Owen_T
Wait why are you asking?
I’ve been wondering for a long time and I keep forgetting to ask
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#124
ILikePie5
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@Owen_T
Can I use AI to reword?
No
#125
Owen_T
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To answer some of the questions, I think the reason that Pie called this person "horrible" is because he disagrees with their political views, as he didn't actually list a specific reason.

I'm assuming the person would have to be notified, as the role required it.

I'm guessing that I was role blocked or Banana is playing scum.

I can see though that it is far more likely that I'm scum from your perspectives, so if I get lynched just re evaluate banana for me.
#126
Earth
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WF and Lunatic seem to being cute on their confirmability, so I will assume they are both Town. Banana is town, I assume. I am Town. 

Owen, I'm on the fence. I do think it's a bit of a gambit to fake claim, but I rather we leave him alive and lynch JoeBob. Owen will be instructed to visit me to confirm his role.
#127
Owen_T
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@Earth
That's a good idea but I've already given the orb away so I can't 
#128
Earth
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@Owen_T
Can you ask what will happen if you pass the ball to X and X died the same night?
#129
Earth
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@Owen_T
If you were roleblocked, you should still have it.
#130
iamanabanana
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I asked the moderator if I got anything and he said he cannot answer things about roles that aren't my own. So Owen is clearly lying. I am ready to lynch him, because I don't see how he can be innocent at this point. He's claiming he sent me something which isn't true
#131
Earth
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@iamanabanana
I don't think you should interpret that message from Pie like that. Honestly, I kinda buy Owen's story. It's odd that he was roleblocked, and not someone like WF or Lunatic, but I don't like lynching him.
#132
Owen_T
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@Earth
Then the identify of the person who passed the ball is revealed. I think that means we see who they are and their affiliation.
#133
Owen_T
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Are we 100% sure banana is town?


#134
whiteflame
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@Owen_T
That's a good idea but I've already given the orb away so I can't 
You’re certain it’s gone? You’ve asked Pie?
#135
JoeBob
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I’m not sure I buy Owen’s claim now that I think about it.
#136
JoeBob
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I did the same thing last game, and maybe he took inspiration and did the same “confirmable role but was role blocked”,
And he saw it work for the most part, so he did it this game.
Although I’m not sure how common that tactic is.

#137
Owen_T
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@whiteflame
Let me ask 
#138
Owen_T
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Pie says that Banana will be notified tonight, unless there was any interference. That clears things up.
#139
whiteflame
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@Owen_T
Pie says that Banana will be notified tonight, unless there was any interference. That clears things up.
Alright. Either that happens or you remain unconfirmed. I’m fine with waiting to see if Banana receives it and sends it along.

For future reference, this is the kind of question you should be asking after receiving your role. You have a confirmable role, so it’s reasonable to ask when it is confirmed.
#140
Moozer325
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@Owen_T
Pie says that Banana will be notified tonight, unless there was any interference. That clears things up.
That seems like a weird and surprisingly convenient solution. I can’t think of any other role that doesn’t notify you immediately when you get an item.
#141
Owen_T
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@Moozer325
It really does seem that way. Just give me until tomorrow though and I can be confirmed. 
#142
whiteflame
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Suffice it to say that I think it would be a bad idea to lynch Owen this DP. Too much of his claim just doesn’t make sense if he’s scum, and he’s going to be confirmed one way or the other next DP. If we want to be certain of that, all Banana needs to do is hang onto the crystal ball if she has it. Then, even if she dies, we’ll be notified.

All this leads me back to Moozer and JoeBob as my main suspects. 
#143
Earth
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@whiteflame
All that assumes Banana dies in the night. What if Banana is scum and lies about receiving the ball?
#144
whiteflame
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@Earth
I’m not really assuming Banana dies in the night so much as recognizing that scum might decide to kill her to make Owen look sus, particularly if she passes the crystal ball.

There’s a non-zero chance that she’s scum, I’ll admit. Her role is testable as Popular, but there’s also a chance she could be Popular and still be scum. Regardless, while I wouldn’t autolynch Owen in the absence of confirmation, I’d need to be convinced that Banana’s pulling a pretty convincing gambit here as a new player.
#145
Moozer325
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@whiteflame
You may be right that we should let him wait to confirm himself, but this still makes me scum read him a lot. He starts off by just claiming "enchantress" without even explaining the role, then when he explains the bare minimum of the role, it looks a lot like he scum slips, so he goes offline for a while and comes back saying that banana gets the item and the end of the day, which I have never seen before. Again, I know my opinions don't have much sway, so I'm just saying what I think.
#146
whiteflame
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@Moozer325
You may be right that we should let him wait to confirm himself, but this still makes me scum read him a lot. He starts off by just claiming "enchantress" without even explaining the role, then when he explains the bare minimum of the role, it looks a lot like he scum slips, so he goes offline for a while and comes back saying that banana gets the item and the end of the day, which I have never seen before. Again, I know my opinions don't have much sway, so I'm just saying what I think.
Despite my sussing you, I still agree. A lot about his claim is strange to me (though some of that strangeness is even more perplexing if he’s doing this as scum) and I don’t like that he made this discovery about when his target becomes aware they’ve received it. That being said, he has no more wiggle room at this point. His claim either yields results that we see confirmed DP3 or it doesn’t and he’s at least on the chopping block. 
#147
Moozer325
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@whiteflame
Fair enough
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#148
ILikePie5
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Approximately 23.5 hours remaining.
#149
Casey_Risk
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There’s a non-zero chance that she’s scum, I’ll admit. Her role is testable as Popular, but there’s also a chance she could be Popular and still be scum. Regardless, while I wouldn’t autolynch Owen in the absence of confirmation, I’d need to be convinced that Banana’s pulling a pretty convincing gambit here as a new player.
FWIW, Pie himself thinks that Popular is a scummy claim. Whether that means he'd likely make it a scum role, idk. That being said, I agree with you that Banana is still very unlikely to be scum.
#150
whiteflame
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So now we're down to about 20 hours. Banana's gotta make this decision tomorrow, so this is the point where people need to start collecting their thoughts and giving their strongest scumread to inform Banana's vote.

While I think people are making some decent points about Owen potentially being sus, he's not going to be my choice for this DP. Moozer has come off as townie enough in his behavior that he's not the one I'd push, either, nor is Earth for a variety of reasons I've discussed. Right now, my choice would be JoeBob . I just don't buy the role, and his behavior has been strange. Asking what reads do to help town just comes out of left field and seems pretty basic: they give us an idea of how you see other players, which informs our reads of you and them, respectively. Scum may have reason to either bus their partner or protect them, and that can come through in a set of reads.

As for others, there's always the chance that Banana is playing a devious game or that Luna's still scum despite what I know about his role. I won't dismiss either of those.