trump is wrong to shut down the government for a wall

Protect from who and what exactly?  Are you prescription medications dude?

Are these iimigrants drivint tanks now? Are they using RPG's?

How well is a concrete or steel barrier going to hold against a tank, RPG's IED"s etc?

Take a look at this photo. https://www.debate.org/Greyparrot/

Is this the kind of people attacking USA at the Mexican border?  OMG, they are scary looking!

Can you imagine a whole army of those Franken-Trumpanzees invading USA at the Mexican border?

Right, we may need to send the military and law enforcement to apprehend and Lock Away those Thingie's from civilize3d society.

Warning Will Robinson! Danger Will Robinson!

From idiot foreigners like you who think America is your personal doormat.

The majority does not matter, that is why we have the electoral college.  It was a good sample size, but 67% of the people in that poll were either Democrat or Independent, and from my experience, independents usually tend to lean a little left.  The margins are still pretty close, just like the election, but the media is saying that no one wants the wall, and if you do, you are racist and immoral.  If that is the case, then so is all of congress that all of the sudden doesn't want it, changing their position in the past 5 years.  As of the about the past 10 years, the new take on America is a country of tolerance, a melting pot of cultures and ethnicity... It is Un-american to build a wall, but this wasn't the case not too long ago.  

What is funny, is I think the people in the US think of it as the above, but people who want to come here, which is almost everyone, still see it as the land of the free, a great chance for opportunity and economic prosperity.  It can only stay this way by capitalism and individualism, but as time goes on we are getting separated into groups.

The other thing is, the stats are still pretty close on who wants the wall and who doesn't, so where are the media outlets reporting on the people that do want the wall.... It is non-existent because they have an agenda to make people think Trump is dumb, and to blame him for everything that goes wrong, when in actuality, it is the liberal congress who wants to continue having illegal immigrants come into the country, and advocating no identification for voting.  They are trying to keep people down and at the same time, rise themselves up, and build government towards communism.

Uh.. you don't think such statements are somewhat hyperbolic?

Obviously the liberal congress would rather not *want* the illegal immigrants to continue, and yet the wall is a costly and ineffective solution.

You speak as if no id voting is bad, however evidence suggests there are mostly negatives associated with implementing strict voting id laws with there being little positives

And obviously them building the government towards communism is complete twaddle

Idio-ump/McConall--- 'proud to wear the mantel of shutting down governement'. 

Yeah narccisstic proud and the Trumpanzee sheeple all go baahh...baahhh...baahhh unison. Sad :--( lack of moral integrity.

The longer the shutdown goes on, the more people will ask if it is really that important to shut down the government indefinitely to save 5 billion dollars.

Eventually people will have to look to Congress to solve the problem.

Do you really see no advantage in a barrier for impeding or redirecting traffic, none at all?  

The curse of "never Trump" and "not my president" means you are obligated to put pressure on Congress to run the government correctly.

At what point will you realize Congress will never legislate or impeach?

Trump essentially gets a free pass, and so does the Congress apparently.

Yeah, i wish the news was actually news and helped people understand these situations. If most people knew congress could stop it, there would be an outcry for them too. In any case, i don't see this going too long one war or another. It only hurts the Presidents image the longer it goes. 

In an age where we can easily have man power and technology could catch a fly... no, i don't see any reason. Plus, you are talking about a physical barrier. I think that's junk. It will be easily manipulated and circumvented. But something like motion capture heat seeking cameras... they will catch everything. I am talking about having a technological barrier. We don't need a great wall of America in this day and age. It's dumb and ineffective. 

This is not a question of Wall VS Heat sensing cameras.  Obviously it's possible to have both cameras and physically obstructive technology, right?  Cameras do not catch anything in a literal sense.  The agents with finite resources do, and they need some amount of time to respond at the border.

If they fail, it could take years to deport after someone has implicated others with their precarious predicament, not to mention a potential break down of the rule of law.

It takes people to arrest at the wall too. We can't make a wall high enough where people can't go over it... and if in the rarest case it's not possible for some reason, under it. It's just a waste of money. Fine, if you want to have both a physical and technological barrier. Just put up a high fence. Nothing expensive but lets you put up 2 things. In any case, a wall is a very dumb idea... unless you can convince me otherwise. What advantage would a physical wall have that something like a fence and technology wouldn't have better? 

The President assuredly does not care about his image. Beware a politician with principles, he cannot be reasoned with.

I have a lot of faith that Pelosi has far less principles than the president, so I expect her to be the one to make a deal, and not demand that the government be perpetually shut down over 5 billion dollars.

The president already said he would put whatever barrier the border patrol asked for, be it steel slats or wall.

I personally think technology and man power would be enough and much more effective than a barrier. I guess some kind of barrier obviously wouldn't hurt. But the two i mentioned would be quite effective in and of themselves. 

AWAKE !    like WAKE UP sleeping America...YOUR BEING INVADED......

Trump knows the Gov shut down is temporary...and those affected can say to anyone who questions their ability to PAY ? 

that there is a delay and payment will be made....the GOV guarantees it...eventually....

POINT ?   Te MEDIA puppets and the bought off Clowns of CONGRESS know the majority of Americans and humanity will FORGET 

this debacle ever happened...right now they DO NOT have a viable distract CARD to play i.e N KOREA  CHINA  RUSSIA..they are

on the sideline for now...this forces the CORRUPT BOUGHT OFF MEDIA and CONGRESS CLOWNS to focus on TRUMP as the

PROBLEM...

Who BENEFITS from the invasion ?   Banks...YES....Corrupt Gov PUPPETS....YES....arms makers ....YES...Drug dealers...YES...

any and all private industry that supports...GUNS..AMMO...SECURITY DEVICES....JAIL CELLS...manpower to process ILLEGALS

like LAWYERS-JUDGES ++++ there are many involved in the MONEY GAME of ILLEGALS = slave traders-sex traders-drugs-

smuggling-+++ this is BIG BUSINESS.....MONEY MATTERS...screw the people...they are all expendable...this....." WALL STALL " 

strategy has nothing to do with MONEY to BUILD it....because there is MORE MONEY to exploit for NOT BUILDING IT...

TRUMP knows the GAME of THRONES that is going on....it's just like Ancient ROME...but instead of family members murdering

each other for POWER...the GOV-BUSINESS-BANKING family used distraction and degradation strategies to FORCE FAILURE

and CHANGE...for themselves !  

Trump is merely a PLAYER in the global GAME of THRONES...his intention is CORRECT...he is on the right PATH...but like all

POLITICIANS..he is TEMPORARY...it's been 3 years since his ride down the escalator....the REAL PLAYERS understand TIME

and in a short TIME trump will be GONE...even if he goes another 4 years...SO WHAT..the next crew will UNDO EVERYTHING

CHAOS..is the RULE...MONEY MATTERS not deliberately dumbed down and Economically OPPRESSED humans ....the PLAYERS

are planning 50 years plus ahead...by mid century all of the TRUMP GENERATION will be long DEAD and FORGOTTEN...the real

GAME is for land and Earth resources...the impoverished = 4 billion + are all EXPENDABLE....

The Guatemala-Honduras-El Salvador ++ are being set up for ATTACK...as many young stupid males (literally like 3 rd grade mentality)

run away to America for shitty JOBS and tremendous backlash...along with other stupid women and their children...(nowhere to go)

CHINA-RUSSIA-BRAZIL and YES America !  are looking very closely at how to take over the BANKING-LAND-NATURAL RESOURCES

and reduce the indigenous (the population) to complete SERVITUDE and POVERTY...right now the DRUG and DICTATOR like Puppet

GOV Clowns are doing the dirty work of driving out the stronger youth...TRUMP makes for the perfect excuse...and the MEDIA and DEMS

act like they want NO WALL !   they want these FOOLS to run away from their home lands....TAKEOVER by outsiders is being accelerated

and IGNORED !   all eyes on TRUMP...as Guatemala-Honduras-El Salvador-Venezuela +++ will be completely overtaken by BANKS and

other Governments...IT'S a COO ...YOU RETARDED FOOLS !   Trump is the DISTRACTION !   

Once the CHINESE and RUSSIANS get a hold POWER and stay invisible but in FULL CONTROL...the MEDIA will shift to something else

....WHO GETS TRAPPED IN THE MIDDLE ?    thousands of young males and children...NO PLACE in MEXICO !  no place in AMERICA !

but YES a place in POVERTY totally locked down as they go back to rebuild for their NEW OWNERS !  China-Russia-Brazil-America

It's all a GAME..these young FOOLS have NOTHING...no money ..no brains..no skills...same for the KIDS...they are the next generation

of SLAVES...the OPPRESSION continues...with NEW PLAYERS ....not the Drug clowns they will be exterminated...CHINA- RUSSIA 

= no way these tiny spit of a Country can survive....TRUMP is just the scapegoat....

You don't think technology can be overcome?  We don't have enough manpower to protect every square inch of the border.  Why do you think we have walls and technology around our embassies and our military installations, even in our own country.  These are all walls to keep people out.   It would even be easier to monitor with technology because there wouldn't be any hidden areas, or ability to block the technology, all they have to monitor is the top of the wall.  Even heat sensors can be overcome.  

This 5 billion is measly compared to the other expenditures we have approved.  Giving monetary help to other countries who spend it incorrectly is pointless.  This is actually not pointless.  I spent some time in jail, you have no idea how many illegal immigrants are being shipped around the country to certain states that are lenient, like MD.  I met some really messed up people that did some incomprehensible violent things in the name of MS-13. 

My property taxes skyrocketed all in the name of education for children of illegal immigrants.  There are so many that the school system cannot sustain them and it affects all the kids, and the teachers ability to do what they need to do.  The county I live in used to be one of the best public education systems in the nation (in MD)... That fell by the wayside about 10 years ago when Obama came to power.  His people with his vision were voted in, and tolerance was the name of the game.

Do you think that the 5 billion that Trump wants to spend on the wall is going anywhere else but to try to improve other countries, which we have been doing for years?  I don't even understand how we can give other countries money when we are so far in debt it is unbelievable.  One thing I am disappointed on about Trump is the inability to improve on the deficit.  I thought he would understand and treat the country more like a business.  That is only partially true.  Let's put this another way, if you were in debt as much as the country is now, would you take what you do have and donate it to other people?  You like to think you would, but you wouldn't.  We need to stop the needless spending, and work on our own debt, building a wall would help both to keep people out as well as decreasing the dependence on social programs, it's a win win. 

Is that some sort of joke?  If it is, it went over my head.  That doesn't usually happen.

THen you need to read USA history. What I stated is a fact that you are not familiar with.

Many facts about USA I'm not familiar with. Do I need to find you a link to truth of these facts?

Bill Clinton was a Democrat.

I didn't say it isn't effective... i just don't think it is so necessary. Especially bc people will figure out how to go over, under and even through it. It's just not that big a deal to me. I think man power is really what we need the most. Take care of our border patrol, get more and make it a little easier to get on board. The a little easier part is pretty big bc it's actually pretty hard to make it into law enforcement. I would love to personally but i can't bc i've been addicted to pain meds in my past. I haven't tried though so i'm not too sure how good they are at finding that out, but i have wanted to be an fbi agent and i know it's probably impossible to get that fact around them... same with police i think. In any case, man power is most important imo. Technology being second most important, then... some barrier, sure. But it's not so important and demanding that i think we should shut a government down for it. But then again... Trump did say it is a goal and people voted him into office on this promise. If there is one thing i'm impressed by Trump is that he is literally doing everything he said or trying to. So i give props where it's due, and at this point, i think the Democrats have made this into more of an issue than it should be. Overall thought, that isn't what i am critiquing. It's that i think a wall is the least important out of the other two needed at the border. That's my only beef with the situation at present.  

many congressman are saying if the wording changed, they would support it.  If they just called it a fence.  It is something he ran on, and most have just given up in the past, or compromised in a way that wasn't really compromising.  

Law enforcement waved bye bye to me a long time ago.

In his defense, he did his job a vetoed a bill. I will note, however, that he encourage congressional Republicans to vote down the bill as well, but that's not going to constitute causing the shutdown, even if he claims to take responsibility for it. The same applies for the Republican members of Congress. It is on the Congressional Democrats for obstructing.

Trump is still in DC willing to negotiate. The Dems are going on vacation.