If morality is subjective, then morality is still objective

Author: Best.Korea

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Tarik
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@Double_R
A moral standard just means it's the standard you are applying to morality, as in the thing you will judge actions against in order to determine whether they are good.

What comparison are you making when the subject is the standard itself?

Then you don't know what it is or why it is important.
That’s because in the context of this discussion it isn’t important.

Why is it slick when I do it and yet that is all you've had to offer this entire conversation?

Except I don’t have to ask you a string of questions because I already know the answer
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@ Tarik

For sure, the context of discussions is very limited.


Though function and process dictates, that all output is subjective.


I came

I saw

I thought

I commented.
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@Tarik
Then you don't know what it is or why it is important.
That’s because in the context of this discussion it isn’t important.
It is important, because that's exactly what you are appealing to. As far as I can tell, the only criticism you've offered of my position (while offering no alternative btw) is that there's no actual starting point, and the reason you claim this is because you just keep asking me "why?" over and over again until there's nothing left but "just because". That's literally the problem of infinite regress.
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@Double_R
It is important, because that's exactly what you are appealing to. As far as I can tell, the only criticism you've offered of my position (while offering no alternative btw) is that there's no actual starting point, and the reason you claim this is because you just keep asking me "why?" over and over again until there's nothing left but "just because". That's literally the problem of infinite regress.

Except I don’t have to ask you a string of questions because I already know the answer
TwoMan
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The answer to why one chooses a particular moral standard is based on one's values. If you value the well-being of all humanity then that will be the basis from which you make moral decisions. If you value "eternal happiness" then that will be the basis of your moral decisions. One's base values themselves are not moral or immoral. It is the decisions made based on those values that are moral or immoral. Values are subjective. Decisions made based on those values can be objectively determined to be moral or immoral. Asking why one values a particular thing could involve a multitude of reasons - genetics, geography, society, parents, culture, life experiences, etc.
Tarik
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@TwoMan
Values are subjective. Decisions made based on those values can be objectively determined to be moral or immoral.
Then why do we demand that others follow our standard regardless of what others standard is?
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@Tarik
Then why do we demand that others follow our standard regardless of what others standard is?
Because otherwise a society would probably descend into anarchy.  If you lived alone on an island, there would be no need for morality as your actions would not affect anyone else. By choosing to live in a society, we necessarily agree to live by at least some common values and morals to ensure societal stability. That is why we have laws. They are the way to enforce a set of common morals. The fact that there are those who don't agree with some of the laws only proves their necessity for a stable society.
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@TwoMan
Because otherwise a society would probably descend into anarchy.
But that assumes that anarchy is an issue, what objective proof do you have of that?
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@Tarik
But that assumes that anarchy is an issue, what objective proof do you have of that?
If you value the security and stability of a civil society, then anarchy is an issue.
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@TwoMan
If you value the security and stability of a civil society, then anarchy is an issue.
I’m sure a nihilist would agree there’s no point of valuing anything.
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@Tarik
I’m sure a nihilist would agree there’s no point of valuing anything.
You are probably right. I'm glad that the majority of people are not nihilists.

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@TwoMan
You are probably right. I'm glad that the majority of people are not nihilists.
Do you think the majority of people are atheists?
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@Tarik
Do you think the majority of people are atheists?
No. I've read anywhere from 4 to 17 percent of the U.S. consider themselves atheist.
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@TwoMan
No. I've read anywhere from 4 to 17 percent of the U.S. consider themselves atheist.
Does the majority of the U.S. also believe morality to be objective?
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@TwoMan
@Tarik

Data transfer is a subjective process.

Therefore transferred data is inherently subjective.
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@Tarik
Does the majority of the U.S. also believe morality to be objective?
I don't know and I doubt that the majority of the U.S. has ever even thought about whether morality is objective or subjective. My guess is that they would probably come down on the objective side not having given it much thought. Do you know what the majority believe?
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@TwoMan
Do you know what the majority believe?
No, what do you believe?
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@Tarik
No, what do you believe?
Please refer to post #95.
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@TwoMan
I'm glad that the majority of people are not nihilists.
Then what’s the point of valuing anything?
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@Tarik
Then what’s the point of valuing anything?
You could probably write a book answering that question. One point of valuing anything is to provide a basis and direction for a moral compass.
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@TwoMan
One point of valuing anything is to provide a basis and direction for a moral compass.
But we don’t need a compass if all roads leads to the same place.
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@Tarik
But we don’t need a compass if all roads leads to the same place.
Why do you think all roads lead to the same place?
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@TwoMan
Values are subjective. 
Not if we all share it, we all value happiness.
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@Tarik
Not if we all share it, we all value happiness.
Does everyone value happiness for themselves, their family, their friends, their enemies or everyone? There are many ways to value happiness. I'm sure that everyone does not value happiness for the same people and that there are even some that do not value it for themselves.
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@TwoMan
I'm sure that everyone does not value happiness for the same people and that there are even some that do not value it for themselves.
Not wanting to be happy is counterintuitive.
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@Tarik
Not wanting to be happy is counterintuitive.
Perhaps for most people but possibly not for someone about to commit suicide. Do you think all democrats value Donald Trump's happiness? Do all republicans value Kamala Harris' happiness?
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@TwoMan
Do you think all democrats value Donald Trump's happiness? Do all republicans value Kamala Harris' happiness?
I was referring to happiness for yourself.
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@Tarik
I was referring to happiness for yourself.
I get that but don't you think that someone who values only their own happiness will have a different moral standard and make different choices than someone who values the happiness of everyone?
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@TwoMan
Do you think all democrats value Donald Trump's happiness? Do all republicans value Kamala Harris' happiness?
If we’re looking at happiness in the broader sense one can easily argue that politicians probably won’t be because of the dishonest lives they live, heaven is the epitome of eternal happiness.
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@Tarik
If we’re looking at happiness in the broader sense one can easily argue that politicians probably won’t be because of the dishonest lives they live, heaven is the epitome of eternal happiness.
I don't want to argue that point, I'm just saying that different people have different values and thus, different moral standards which makes them inherently subjective.