Time traveler/Rants Mafia DP1

Author: WyIted
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#241
whiteflame
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@Savant
I'm catching up. I have seen some previous statements you made as regards how Pie views Barney for the late game, but apart from that, I haven't seen much explanation for what makes him anti-town. I've got my own thoughts, but my issues with him stem from how he has called for my character claim, backed off of that call when a couple of people said they townread me, and came back to it only to get similar treatment. My experience with him has been that if he felt it was worthwhile, he'd argue for what he's seeking, and the lack of attention on it beyond asking DD a question about why he's not seeking it doesn't sit right with me.
#242
Discipulus_Didicit
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unvote

Didn't realize my vote was still on Barney this whole time.

I will reread from the start as I promised to do tomorrow morning.
#243
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@Savant
I town read Owen right now, since they are putting more effort into posting than I would expect as scum.
How so? He still hasn't said much of substance, and only gave any reads when specifically pushed to by Pie. His claim is also questionable in my eyes. The Dean scream is definitely iconic, but not what I would call a rant. 
#244
ILikePie5
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Because I town read him. Seems obvious.
What makes you townread him?
#245
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@Owen_T
I think Barney is definitely safe, they're putting a lot of effort into organizing scum hunting
Explain
#246
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@Savant
I town read Owen right now, since they are putting more effort into posting than I would expect as scum.
???

That means viable lynches rn (based on votes) are Barney, Pie, and JoeBob. I don't love Barney being on there, and I think we have room to expand our scum hunt, but I see Pie's behavior as anti-town for reasons I've already stated.
So Barney is a viable lynch but I’m anti-town for suggesting it?

I'd like whiteflame or Luna to take a look at his posts and see if they agree.

#247
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I'm going to pick this back up again tomorrow morning - it's late and I need to get some sleep. I'll post reads early tomorrow as well so that we can hopefully nail down a lynch.
#248
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@ILikePie5
Barney is a viable lynch but I’m anti-town for suggesting it?
If he is, it's not for the reasons you said. And even though he's lynchable, I already said I'm hesitant to go after him in that same post.
#249
ILikePie5
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@Savant
If he is, it's not for the reasons you said.
My reason was math. He’s more likely town than not, but we’re forced to get rid of him barring any better lynches because of math. What reasons are anti town? 

And even though he's lynchable, I already said I'm hesitant to go after him in that same post.
That’s fine but we’re going to have to at some point in the game
#250
ILikePie5
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@whiteflame
My experience with him has been that if he felt it was worthwhile, he'd argue for what he's seeking, and the lack of attention on it beyond asking DD a question about why he's not seeking it doesn't sit right with me.
I still think you should character claim. No one has answered why they townread you. 
#251
ILikePie5
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1. Savant
2. Pie
3. Whiteflame
4. Lunatic
5. Casey - Bill O’Reilly Rant - ???
6. JoeBob
7. Disc
8. Austin
9. Owen - Howard Dean Rant - ???
10.Barney - Short Man Rant - Hated

#252
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@ILikePie5
Lunatic has claimed Dennis Green's rant about the Bears.
#253
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Holy shit you all type fast. 


I’m caught up to speed, and since I don’t scum read anyone at the moment, im fine for getting a claim from whoever, since this DP has been moving slowly.
#254
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@Savant
I echo whiteflames thoughts. Pie's logic is consistent with how he views meta, and he does technically have a point about the math even if I don't necessarily want to lynch barney because of that. 
Topic's author
#255
WyIted
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Around 13 hours remain 
#256
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Okay so has it been 100% confirmed by barney that he is still hated at LYLO? 

I imagine it has to have been otherwise pie wouldn't still be harping on that point. If so I think we kind of have to lynch barney today even though I would hate to do that. The only other way I would be convinced off of doing it is if we had scum dead to rights and with 12 hours remaining, that doesn't look like its the case. But yeah it goes against everything in my being to lynch someone I feel is town just because of math but pie is technically not wrong.

I would like barney to confirm this to me in case I missed it though. To be clear, I want him to confirm that he is 100% still hated at MYLO. 
#257
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@ILikePie5
I still think you should character claim. No one has answered why they townread you. 
I've said that I'm fine claiming, and while that is still the case, so far no one but you has called for it. I'm don't know why people are townreading me as I don't think I've done anything that warrants that view, but I'm also not going to provide my claim on the basis that you alone have asked for it. I will, however, note that it is odd that, so far, none of the "time travel" claims have been given. As such, I'll at least give a softclaim: my character is related to the anime series Steins;Gate in some way.

#258
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@Lunatic
@Barney
Okay so has it been 100% confirmed by barney that he is still hated at LYLO? 

I imagine it has to have been otherwise pie wouldn't still be harping on that point. If so I think we kind of have to lynch barney today even though I would hate to do that. The only other way I would be convinced off of doing it is if we had scum dead to rights and with 12 hours remaining, that doesn't look like its the case. But yeah it goes against everything in my being to lynch someone I feel is town just because of math but pie is technically not wrong.

I would like barney to confirm this to me in case I missed it though. To be clear, I want him to confirm that he is 100% still hated at MYLO. 
I would sincerely like an answer to this as well. Barney mentioned that he would ask about it and then never said what the situation was. Much as I'm pretty strongly townreading him at the moment, you and Pie are right that he's a liability to town if his role persists into later DPs, so if that's the case, he's honestly the default (if admittedly lazy) lynch.
#259
whiteflame
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@Casey_Risk
I town read Owen right now, since they are putting more effort into posting than I would expect as scum.
How so? He still hasn't said much of substance, and only gave any reads when specifically pushed to by Pie. His claim is also questionable in my eyes. The Dean scream is definitely iconic, but not what I would call a rant. 
I was thinking the same thing. Owen did just claim "Howard Dean" and then posted the video where he lists of states where he's going before that iconic scream. The Howard Dean speech is kind of a rant if you squint at it, but it's mainly known for the scream rather than the rant itself, so the claim seems at least a little off.
#260
whiteflame
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Also, I promised to post reads and then just didn't yesterday. I've already given some thoughts on Barney and Austin, don't have anything to add there. I've also talked about Casey, who comes off as a little stronger of a townread with their claim. I've talked about my views on Pie as well, and though I'm somewhere between a null and a slight scum read on him, he's claimed to be confirmable, so I'm not comfortable lynching him this DP. Anyway, thoughts on the rest:

DD: Null. His posts have most definitely been glorious, particularly his overlong rants that are just *chef's kiss*, but I can't say I've seen enough to justify putting him in either camp at this stage. It's a bit odd that he townread JoeBob, Casey and Owen without explanation and was opposed to calling for my claim for unspecified reasons. There's probably a basis for all this that hasn't been provided yet, but there's just not a lot to go on for a read.

Luna: Slight townread. I don't agree with his read on Casey, but I can see where he's coming from. His hesitancy to push for Barney as the default lynch comes off a bit townie as well, particularly since he hasn't yet confirmed (at least from what I've seen) whether his Hated status persists into later DPs, which should be pretty relevant if we're considering him as a lynch based on his role in any DP.

Owen: Null. This is really a balancing of his claim, which does seem off, and an early behavioral read I got on him. I'm not so much concerned with the whole "I win with the town" vs. "I win with town" situation, but I don't buy that scum would be the first to specify in one direction or the other. It's not a lot to go on, but it's the only behavioral hint I've gotten so far. It's also part of the reason I believe Barney is town because I don't think scum would have actively chosen to distinguish themselves by writing theirs as "I win with town", even though that ends up being a null issue in general.

JoeBob: Null. I'm still not quite sure how to read into his defensiveness of a post he never made, mainly because it's just a weird decision, particularly at a point where it had already been established that the difference between the two framings of winning with town was already a non-issue and no one had asked him about his framing up to that point. I can't tell if that was an effort to look more townie or just a mistake on his part, and he hasn't done enough posting since to clarify it for me.

Savant: Slight townread. Everything I'm seeing from him so far has typified his usual town play, though he's a little less antagonistic than I'd expect based on his previous play. He's been pushomg back against DD and Pie and has claimed he has a "hypothetically confirmable" role, so at the very least, I'd like to see how it plays out. I'm a bit baffled by his take on Owen's claim, but that doesn't really change my view of him.
#261
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@ILikePie5
Can you explain your vote on Owen a bit more? I don't feel super strongly about him, but he's at least a better option than policy lynching Barney.
#262
Discipulus_Didicit
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Okay so as promised I reread the DP from scratch and after having done so I am getting varying levels of town vibes from a few players but none are standing out to me as potential scum. I think I would be okay with a no lynch today, the only thing that...

WOAH DD coming out in favor of a no lynch when last game he played he was scum reading Pie for the same thing?!?! Pretty sus!
No, look back at my last game when I did that. I explained in detail why the math clearly favored a lynch specifically because of the odd number of players. We now have an even number of players. Now, where was I? Oh yes... the only thing that might be about equal to a no lynch is, as some have pointed out, lynching the hated. At this point the math on these two actions is about the same.

I started typing up my specific reads so that I could have something more detailed than "a few players give a few town vibes" but something came up, I'll be back with those reads in a couple hours.
#263
Barney
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@whiteflame
Regarding if I stay hated in the late game, as previously stated:
Got a confusing answer about timelines.

So probably I must die, but not guaranteed.
I suggest waiting for the time travel people to have revealed their roles, and if none of them undoes the hated part, then we lynch me (unless we've caught scum of course).

I also strongly endorse doing a VNTL one of the days, as it gives a whole extra day for investigative roles to do their thing. Plus, killing me is no better than VNTL since a pure policy lynch on a universally town read player doesn't produce much in the way of reads.

Normal course:
  1. 8v2
  2. 6v2 <-kill hated
  3. 4v2  <-MYLO
  4. 2v2
or with VNTL:
  1. 8v2
  2. 7v2
  3. 5v2 <-kill hated
  4. 3v2 <-MYLO

Actually, on that note:
Unvote,
VNTL
#264
Barney
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@whiteflame
Regarding if I stay hated in the late game, as previously stated:
Got a confusing answer about timelines.

So probably I must die, but not guaranteed.
I suggest waiting for the time travel people to have revealed their roles, and if none of them undoes the hated part, then we lynch me (unless we've caught scum of course).

I also strongly endorse doing a VNTL one of the days, as it gives a whole extra day for investigative roles to do their thing. Plus, killing me is no better than VNTL since a pure policy lynch on a universally town read player doesn't produce much in the way of reads.

Normal course:
  1. 8v2
  2. 6v2 <-kill hated
  3. 4v2  <-MYLO
  4. 2v2
or with VNTL:
  1. 8v2
  2. 7v2
  3. 5v2 <-kill hated
  4. 3v2 <-MYLO

Actually, on that note:
Unvote,
VNTL
#265
whiteflame
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@Barney
Got a confusing answer about timelines.

So probably I must die, but not guaranteed.
Didn’t see that, but point taken. I’ll consider your point.
#266
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@Barney
  1. 3v2 <-MYLO
3v2 is LYLO, not MYLO. I understand where you are coming from, but getting to LYLO is always very bad for the town, especially a 3v2 LYLO. It leaves absolutely no room for error.
#267
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The more I've thought about this, the more the VTNL makes sense. I understand that there's a difference between reaching LYLO and MYLO, but the difference between the two scenarios Barney describes is actually in what he omits from the first one: that we would likely VTNL at 4v2 (MYLO) and bring it to LYLO anyway unless we had good reason to lynch at that point. So there could well be a VTNL regardless of whether we do it during this DP or a later one.

The difference, as Pie has pointed out in a previous game, is in how much information we're likely to get. Scum can only kill so many and stop so many actions this DP, and especially given how little information about roles has been given out, they'll likely be shooting blind on some of those choices. Meanwhile, town stands to gain a great deal of information as a result of the NP, which can go a long way to inform the next lynch.

So that's where I say we go with it. 

VTNL
#268
Discipulus_Didicit
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Confirmed Town

None

Strong Town

Whiteflame - Probably a bit biased because they complimented my page-long rants a few times, which made me feel quite happy as I did work hard on them. The "Not getting the whole PM" thing at the beginning is probably also biasing me a bit here. It's something that I think would be equally likely to happen to scum or town but I think town would be more likely to actually bring it up. Even without those biases, however, the post where whiteflame was the first person to come forward pointing out that some PMs say "win with town" despite some others saying "win with the town" - which was later confirmed by others - seals his place at the top of my town read list.

Barney - First to claim and claimed hated. Not an impossible fake claim for scum but I think Barney would go for something a bit safer if he was fake claiming. This plus the fact that he was the last to sign up after wylted already started trying to put together the new mashup theme and I could totally see wylted saying "Damn how am I going to balance the number of mislynches town gets with this last minute sign up? eh, I'll just make him hated that'll do it". By the way if that is what happened then... fair. Pretty clever actually.

Lean Town

Lunatic - I haven't played with Luna in years so don't remember much about their behavior and even if I did people do change with time so I'll approach this as a fresh slate. The main thing that stands out to me from lunatics posts is the fact that they don't seem to be only commenting on what other people are commenting on, they are willing to branch out to different untouched topics - but also don't seem to be pushing any specific approach too hard. I take these both as town tells.

That's not everyone but these take a while to type up so I'm taking a break.

Overall as we have 6.66 hours left in the DP I am standing by my wish for a no lynch.



#269
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Read through the thread a second time. I don't think Barney would claim hated as scum. It basically ensures he won't live past MYLO. Unless someone has a strong scum read, not lynching seems like the only feasible option at this point.

VTNL
#270
Discipulus_Didicit
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I think it is more likely that the DP is going to end from time running out than ending from enough VTNL votes going through but I'll put this down now anyway just to put my money where my mouth is.

VTNL