Villainous Villains DP2

Author: Lunatic

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#61
WyIted
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@Casey_Risk
Gladly. Basically, there are two things that make me doubt whether that death report is genuine and untampered with. First, Beowulf is NOT a villain
Didn't you soft claim princess Rosalina? How is she a villain?
#62
Earth
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@AustinL0926
The flipped PM and my own have a quote, character bio, implied justification, role name, and a wincon, in that order. Joebob's has his role name at the beginning.
My PM is the same. Also, it's not clear what Joebob's role was. 
#63
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@Savant
No, mine is missing a quote, but the order is the same as mharman's other than the missing quote
#64
Savant
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@Earth
A "town scum lyncher."
#65
Earth
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@Savant
But what does that do? A lyncher is usually a TP.
#66
WyIted
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My guess is lunatic probably took steps to make PM analysis impossible. I don't see a rule banning it, which is what most mods do if they didn't take steps to alter the PMs
#67
Savant
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@WyIted
Luna could have made JoeBob's different on purpose.
#68
Earth
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@WyIted
But you have to admit Joebob's supposed PM looks different from Mhar's.
#69
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@Earth
However, you may not place a vote on Earth or directly tell anyone to vote for Earth, or you will die during the night. Use your influence subtly to guide the town towards voting Earth out without revealing your true intentions. You win with the town. (Killed NP1)
Other than the fact that this should be question marks upon flipping to make the Gane more fair, it seems legit.b
#70
WyIted
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@Earth
But you have to admit Joebob's supposed PM looks different from Mhar's.
Yes, the first thing that stands out is length.bmy length is closer to mharmans
#71
Savant
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JoeBob did claim he was born 1,000 years ago, which matches Beowulf, for whatever that's worth.
#72
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Okay if we really want to look elsewhere we should start speculating on who would kill joebob. 

I am willing to consider options here

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#73
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@Savant
Didn't you say you were confirmable today?
#74
Savant
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Noticed that JoeBob's PM doesn't use curly quotes, whereas mine and Mharman's do. I suspect mafia messaged Luna the fake PM, while the others were written in Google Docs.

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#75
Savant
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@Earth
Owen should confirm me when he gets on.
#76
WyIted
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We know given a 3rd party the scum team is likely just 2 people. So what teams would it look like. 

Town 
1. Wylted
2. Joebob
3. Ilikepie
4. Owen
5. Savant
6.  Cerulean
7. Austin
8 barney
9. earth
Scum
#77
WyIted
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There is no way we can afford for eartt to be in the game at mylo if this off the wall theory is correct. It's just dangerous
#78
Savant
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Does anyone's PM use straight quotes?
#79
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This is a good point. The flipped PM and my own have a quote, character bio, implied justification, role name, and a wincon, in that order. Joebob's has his role name at the beginning.
Mine is character name, bio, justification, role name, wincon, quote, in that order.

I was not expecting to live in a world where we're angleshooting the PMs themselves, but here we are, I suppose.

I can hardly believe that Lunatic would subject himself to hosting a mechanic like this, it's rather annoying to host based on my past experiences. Is there precedent here for either a role like this or unannounced bastard mechanics like fake flips?

#80
WyIted
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@Cerulean
Is there precedent here for either a role like this or unannounced bastard mechanics like fake flips?
I have known lunatic for 10 years and played in a lot of his games. I only saw something like what earth is claiming happen once, and it was not his Game. It was a role called ghostwriter and it could not change PMs but add a line to the end of the mod message in dp2. It was used to fake mod confirm somebody as town when I saw it. Spoiler alert the person who used the ability was town but who he mod confirmed as town was actually scum. He did it because he had a town read of the guy.
#81
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Anything like the Town Scum Lyncher role? I once hosted a game that featured a similar role (an "Insider Agent" who shared the Mafia chat, was aligned with Town, but could not hint at the role under penalty of modkill and instant loss), but including the information in the flip here seems even more egregious, since it essentially guarantees that Earth would die eventually.
#82
AustinL0926
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@Cerulean
I agree - I designed quite a few setups myself, and one of the guiding principles is that if scum plays a perfect game, then they shouldn't be screwed over by things outside of their control. Cop checks are fine, because you can dodge them by being townie. A role that guarantees, almost a 100%, that Earth doesn't make it to LYLO, is pretty bastard.
#83
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@Cerulean
The only time I've seen a fake flip is when scum flips as a random town role. It's usually not too game-breaking because the townie can just CC that role.
#84
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Kinda wanna pressure Wylted for this honestly.
#85
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Well, either it's a fake flip, or Earth was doomed from the start. Take your pick, but either one is unusual.

For the record, if it's real and Earth is scum, I think Owen is always a Villager (not that there was much doubt on that front). The way Owen's play and the slightly non-random distribution of alignment have been described makes me think Lunatic wouldn't force him into needing to win a Final 3 solo.
#86
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Caught this up to the start of today... I'll get it the rest of the way tonight.

DASHBOARD     Character                 Role
AustinL0926   * Don Corleone
WyIted              * Billy Mitchell
Casey_Risk    * Something Mario
Savant              NP1 Confirmable
iLikePie5 
Earth
Barney
Cerulean

Graveyard
Mharman          * Ramattra           1x Bulletproof Survivor
JoeBob              * Beowulf              Town Scum Lyncher


* is links to character info.


...

A couple posts stood out during the reread:

Beowulf's age seems to match JoeBob's soft claim.

Earth did soft claim Lie Detector.
#87
Savant
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@Earth
@AustinL0926
@WyIted
@Cerulean
The fact that people are buying this is evidence that the role is something Luna would add. Since Earth can still try to talk his way out. We've lose multiple games because scum was mechanically obvious and people overthought everything.

VTL Earth
#88
Cerulean
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I scanned through DP1 looking through things that would have been "better" for Earth to Lie Detect, because picking Pie of all people is... pretty bad, considering that Pie looked excellent after that End of Day. There were some character claims that could have been partially investigated, such as WyI's Billy Mitchell.
#89
Savant
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Oh, and scum might have a janitor where they could have cleaned JoeBob's role and saved Earth, that they neglected to use here.
#90
AustinL0926
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@Savant
What happened to this:

Noticed that JoeBob's PM doesn't use curly quotes, whereas mine and Mharman's do. I suspect mafia messaged Luna the fake PM, while the others were written in Google Docs.

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