Villainous Villains DP1

Author: Lunatic

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#211
Mharman
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@ILikePie5
So you’re saying in the same post, you “forgot” that Wylted had already character claimed when in that same post you acknowledged that he had already character claimed? That makes no sense.
Call it nonsensical or whatever you want. It’s the same thing Austin said of me last game.

Keep in mind I am thinking as type. When you combined a tried Mharman with a slew of posts to look at and events to follow, I am going to screw up my thought process in the middle of writing a post. So yeah, it can happen in happen in the same post.

Are you though? You lynched your top townread last game just for information. Getting a claim from a slight townread shouldn’t be that big of a deal.
*In a time scramble where my top scumread wasn’t available for a lynch, and my only option was to look at the two wagons and decide which one would prove my scumread. We are not in a time scramble now. 

That’s not even close to what is happening right now imo.
Yes it is. Exact same shit, people reading too far into simple mistake I made and erroneously scumreading me off it.

If you want to talk about slanted versions of events…
He’s claiming he he didn’t know Wylted had character claimed while acknowledging he did in the same exact post he made.
… then you should mention to everyone you’re pinging that I’m saying my mistake was because I missed/forgot details and got confused when I wasn’t thinking clearly (again, late at night).
#212
Barney
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I’ll get caught up again soon. Just finished a lengthy debate round.
#213
ILikePie5
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@Mharman
… then you should mention to everyone you’re pinging that I’m saying my mistake was because I missed/forgot details and got confused when I wasn’t thinking clearly (again, late at night).
Yet clear enough to state the consequences of Wylted claiming. It’s one thing to say that because you ever so slightly townread him, you don’t want him to claim vs he shouldn’t claim because it would help scum figure out who is a PR. Even if you were referring to character, it doesn’t really tell much unless someone was stupid enough to pick a corrupt cop or doctor or something
#214
AustinL0926
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I think Mharman vs Pie is probably TvT honestly.
#215
AustinL0926
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Owen is fine. He's well within last game's town range.
#216
AustinL0926
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I don't really have any scumreads at the moment which is kinda unusual. I feel like either the lowposters or one of the experienced players is scum but that's just a gut feeling on the gamestate.
#217
ILikePie5
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@AustinL0926
I think Mharman vs Pie is probably TvT honestly.
I know I’m town, but I don’t think Mharman is town. That post about Wylted claiming would help reveal Town PRs and help scum doesnt make sense from a townie’s perspective. I townie would say he doesn’t want someone to claim because he town reads them. The focus on PRs is what scum do. Even revealing characters doesn’t do much cause they’re all villains and you could probably justify anything for them ie there’s no way for scum to know what Don Corleone could be vs Billy Mitchell
#218
ILikePie5
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@AustinL0926
We gotta get claims from someone. You have to thing that statement was odd at the very least because of the inherent confidence that Wylted claiming would reveal Town PRs, implying he knows Wylted is town 
#219
WyIted
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@AustinL0926
I think Mharman vs Pie is probably TvT honestly.
I have to study but the one thing keeping me from believing this is thay mharman seems to be a bit evasive. I disagree with pie's logic but mharman's response to pie's logic is interesting
#220
ILikePie5
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@WyIted
I have to study but the one thing keeping me from believing this is thay mharman seems to be a bit evasive. I disagree with pie's logic but mharman's response to pie's logic is interesting
It basically boils down to why Mharman was so confident that you revealing your role would help scum identify PRs
#221
JoeBob
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@ILikePie5
PRs
what is a PR
#222
WyIted
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@ILikePie5
It would help scum.narrow down PRs though.  If I have a week role, they narrow the pool and if I reveal and have a PR than they know precisely where the PRs are. 

I don't like his response to the pressure but I don't agree with you that somebody being cautious about exposing PRs would be scummy. 

If he showed contradictory logic and didn't give crap about exposing power roles in his last town game or something, perhaps I would change my mind, but I disagree with the logic. With that said, his response feels fishy and I would like him to full claim, so I don't want to talk you out of your logic too much
#223
WyIted
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@JoeBob
Power role
#224
WyIted
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Personally I prefer to use behavioral reads over mechanical reads so I have nothing against exposing PRs. I do think role claims should rare though and that we should be willing to lynch and not be held hostage waiting for a claim if behavior is scummy 
#225
ILikePie5
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@WyIted
It would help scum.narrow down PRs though.  If I have a week role, they narrow the pool and if I reveal and have a PR than they know precisely where the PRs are. 
Yes, if you’re town. But he was confident that you were town. There’s no way he’d know that. And by that logic, it doesn’t make sense to pursue a claim from anyone anyways.

I don't like his response to the pressure but I don't agree with you that somebody being cautious about exposing PRs would be scummy. 
It’s not that he’s being cautious. It’s him being confident that you claiming would reveal a town PR. He can’t know if youre town or not if he’s town.

If he showed contradictory logic and didn't give crap about exposing power roles in his last town game or something, perhaps I would change my mind, but I disagree with the logic. With that said, his response feels fishy and I would like him to full claim, so I don't want to talk you out of your logic too much
What do you find fishy? I’m curious
#226
Owen_T
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I know I'm being a sheep but I just don't see the point in hyper analyzing everything when everybody else is. It makes the most sense for me, especially because you all have a lot more experience than me, to just see what player is making the most logical argument. But I'm going to try and become a little more independent.
#227
Casey_Risk
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@Owen_T
I know I'm being a sheep but I just don't see the point in hyper analyzing everything when everybody else is.
You don't necessarily have to give very deep analysis on everything going on, but you should share your own thoughts on the situation, even if only briefly, especially when voting for someone.

Right now, I still feel like the Pie v Mharman argument is most likely a Town v. Town fight, but reading back through it, I'm a little less convinced that's the case. At the same time, Mharman's evasiveness could just be because he has a PR and doesn't want it to be revealed. I'm fine with no full claim, but I wouldn't be against pressuring him for a character claim.
#228
WyIted
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@ILikePie5
Yes, if you’re town. But he was confident that you were town. There’s no way he’d know that. And by that logic, it doesn’t make sense to pursue a claim from anyone anyways.
Shit, I see what you're saying. It just now clicked.

What do you find fishy? I’m curious
I can't put my finger on it, but it feels like he is doing what I do as scum which is try to side step accusations instead of addressing them I know he is addressing them in a minimal way, but almost as if to quickly swipe them away. 

I often ignore votes that are not well founded either way, nut it's almost feels like a jedi hand waving. "Do not look here". 

I am going to reread the posts before the DP ends but yes the i side information that I am town, that is scummy. 
#229
WyIted
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@Owen_T
hyper analyzing everything when everybody else is. It makes the most sense for me, especially because you all have a lot more experience than me, to just see what player is making the most logical argument. But I'm going to try and become a little more independent
Using other people's logic is fine but it might help to maybe provide commentary as to why their logic makes sense to you. I also think if you are overwhelmed it is okay just to follow the lead of somebody you stro gly town read. 



#230
WyIted
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If you are blindly following a strong town read than you should maybe provide your reasoning as to that town read though 
#231
ILikePie5
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@Casey_Risk
Right now, I still feel like the Pie v Mharman argument is most likely a Town v. Town fight, but reading back through it, I'm a little less convinced that's the case. At the same time, Mharman's evasiveness could just be because he has a PR and doesn't want it to be revealed. I'm fine with no full claim, but I wouldn't be against pressuring him for a character claim.
Tbh character claim means nothing this game. You could probably justify a host of roles for any of the villains imo. We’re going to have to get claims from someone, otherwise we’ll end up where we were last game with a last minute lynch on a DP4 Innocent Child
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#232
Lunatic
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@ILikePie5
Did you give scum any fake roles/claims or hints about that?
No
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#233
Lunatic
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Vote Count

mharman- 3/6- Wytled, iLikePie5, OwenT
Savant- 1/6- Joebob
Joebob- 1/6-Cerulean
#234
JoeBob
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forgot to unvote
Unvote 
#235
JoeBob
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@ILikePie5
We’re going to have to get claims from someone, otherwise we’ll end up where we were last game with a last minute lynch on a DP4 Innocent Child
It seems Mharman is the most popular choice to get a full claim from.
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#236
Lunatic
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Vote Count

mharman- 3/6- Wytled, iLikePie5, OwenT
Joebob- 1/6-Cerulean

#237
ILikePie5
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@JoeBob
It seems Mharman is the most popular choice to get a full claim from.
Help me pressure him please
#238
JoeBob
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@ILikePie5
@Mharman
VTL mharman to full claim
#239
Savant
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@Mharman
I don't want to put you at L-1 and risk a hammer. Plz claim so we can move on.
#240
AustinL0926
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@ILikePie5
I know I’m town, but I don’t think Mharman is town. That post about Wylted claiming would help reveal Town PRs and help scum doesnt make sense from a townie’s perspective. I townie would say he doesn’t want someone to claim because he town reads them. The focus on PRs is what scum do. Even revealing characters doesn’t do much cause they’re all villains and you could probably justify anything for them ie there’s no way for scum to know what Don Corleone could be vs Billy Mitchell
I still don't really understand the basis for the Mharman wagon here. At this point in the game, with no strong reads,  we ought to assume that making a random person claim is negative expected value for town, as they're more likely to be a townie forced to reveal their role than a scum locked into a claim. Can you explain what part of Mharman's response is alignment indicative?