It’s a dark day in America when we judge politicians based on charisma and not trustworthiness.
Why is there such a big deal about Biden mumbling his words and not Trump lying through his teeth
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Average voter votes based on whats funny.
Average voter is incapable of telling what truth is.
Thats why Bush can lie that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction, invade Iraq and kill millions of people, and later Bush can admit that he was lying, and still be unpunished for what he did.
Then Obama does similar with Libya, and no one cares.
To put it simply, average voter doesnt even know what is he voting for.
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@Moozer325
It’s a dark day in America when we judge politicians based on charisma and not trustworthiness.
I mean people pointing out the guy with his finger on a nuke ilhas dementia is a bit .ore concerning than a politician doing what politicians do.
Also I didn't really catch any Trump lies though I saw him ducking questions
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@WyIted
He literally said that the governor of Virginia killed a newborn.
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@Moozer325
He literally said that the governor of Virginia killed a newborn.
You can't believe biased fact checkers, this is one of those situations where there is a grey area in abortion laws and if a failed abortion is technically outside of the mother and technically still alive it is a newborn. This is a matter of semantics not a lie. To call a difference of semantics a lie, is in fact a lie though
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@WyIted
I'm not actually super informed on this issue, but can you cite a good source for it? Besides, this is one of the many lies he made.
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@Moozer325
A presidential election is not a popularity contest. It's not a beauty pageant. It's not a Vatican conclave to decide who's the most pious and the most favored by God to become the next Pope.
It is a selection process to appoint one of several candidates to a job opening. The debate can be thought of as an interview of said candidates. While candidates do try to present themselves as likable, or a "man of the people", at the end of the day the only criterion that really matters is how good a job they'll do. In the grand scheme of things, being a role model and inspirational figure is but a tiny sliver of what that job entails.
Contrary to what sometimes get said, Trump does have a platform. Polls show that more Americans, regardless of voter preferences, care about the border and illegal immigration a lot more than you're probably assuming. Selective protectionism has also endeared him to workers in certain industries. And it's observably true that the world is less peaceful and secure today than it was 4 years ago.
While Trump was President, inflation was low and the economy was doing okay up until Covid, and it's probably safe to assume another global pandemic won't randomly come out of nowhere again in the next 4 years. Which is to say he has a proven track record of being an at least half-decent President when it comes to actually governing, a track record that could repeat itself from 2025-2029 if elected.
But never mind that. Let's suppose Trump was indeed a relatively incompetent crook. If the worst rumors about the state of Biden's mental health were true, then anyone with an interest in self-preservation would still choose Trump.
I don't know if said speculation is true. Personally I think he did alright aside from the first 5 minutes. But the point is that millions of people now believe the rumors. Hence, the debate matters.
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@WyIted
He also claimed that everybody wanted abortion going back to the states, and that during Biden's term the U.S. had the worst national deficit in history. He claimed that his term was the best term ever economically in the history of America, which was SO WRONG. He claimed that Democrats supported infanticide. He lied about his "suckers and losers" quote, which he absolutely did say. He says he has 19 people who can say that he didn't say that, but has not backed that up in the slightest.
Even outside the debate he has lied about the stormy Daniels affair, when there is a tape of him admitting guilt! He is a dirty liar, and a convicted felon. I don't know what else to tell you.
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@Moozer325
I'll make the case for Trump and then the case for Biden.
First, the case for Trump. According to CNN, Trump lied 30 times, and Biden lied about 9. Making misleading claims is a much lesser flaw for a president than mumbling through sentences, because fact-checkers exist. Also, having a good poker face can be useful in discussions with geopolitical foes—Trump misleading Putin about our military strength could be an advantage, whereas Biden falling asleep during a negotiation would only be a flaw. Furthermore, the reason more falsehoods were attributed to Trump could be that Biden failed to finish a complete thought most of the time, so he simply had less opportunities to make misleading or false claims. Trump told the truth about what governor Northam said, since the full quote was "If a mother is in labor, I can tell you exactly what would happen. The infant would be delivered, the infant would be kept comfortable, the infant would be resuscitated if that’s what the mother and the family desired. And then a discussion would ensue between the physicians and the mother." So clearly some democrats do support infanticide or at least allowing infants to die in some circumstances. Trump didn't clarify exactly what those circumstances were, but Northam was vague about it as well, and Trump's claim that Northam implicitly supported infanticide in some cases was true.
Now the case for Biden. Most of this is what you said, but I'll add a bit more. Trump's claim about Northam implied broader Democratic support for infanticide than realistically exists. People are taken off of life support all the time, and we don't call it murder. It's unclear whether Northam actually supported killing infants directly in that quote or just removing support. He claimed later that he didn't support infanticide, and we should take his word for it. Perhaps Biden could have added context, but Trump knew he wasn't a great speaker and took advantage of that in order to mislead the audience. Biden might stumble a lot, but this means he will listen to his staff and be less likely to make rash decisions. Being a bad public speaker doesn't automatically mean that Biden is mentally slow in all facets, and the president doing less himself is less of a danger than someone who will make sweeping executive decisions and act on their emotions.
Yep, these are the best cases for each of our only two choices. Feel proud to be American yet?
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@Swagnarok
Well sure it matters. I'm just baffled about how much people seem to care about the age of someone who has proved that they can do the job. If Biden was a new comer, I might be worried because we wouldn't know anything about how well he can do, but since he's the incumbent, it's clear that he is very qualified for the job, and his mental health has nothing to do with his competence. Meanwhile, Trump is a convicted felon and relies on blatant falsehoods to sway stupid impressionable voters, (not saying that you are stupid), and no one seems to care. It really makes me rethink my faith in the general intelligence of human beings.
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@Savant
whereas Biden falling asleep during a negotiation would only be a flaw.
Which candidate fell asleep during their own trial? :P
Yep, these are the best cases for each of our only two choices. Feel proud to be American yet?
This is why Ranked Choice Voting would be such a better system.
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@Moozer325
Which candidate fell asleep during their own trial?
I wouldn't know, I slept through the trial too.
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@Moozer325
I'm just baffled about how much people seem to care about the age of someone who has proved that they can do the job
It matters a great deal. Biden has proven that he was in good enough mental shape to do the job from 2021 to 2024. It says nothing about his mental shape for another 4 years. If he's showing any signs of cognitive decline now, then that will worsen in years to come. You don't want somebody like that tasked with the responsibility of safeguarding the United States in the nuclear age.
Again, I don't know if it's true. But if, for the sake of argument, it is, then it's extremely consequential and demands to be taken very seriously.
his mental health has nothing to do with his competence
Being President is largely a mental job. Losing your mental faculties is a death blow to being able to do it competently.
Meanwhile, Trump is a convicted felon
Even assuming the jury reached the factually correct verdict, Trump's crime was... *drumroll* putting in a misleading entry on a document about the nature of a payment.
That's it. He didn't accept a bribe or embezzle funds. He didn't steal from anyone or scam anyone. He didn't commit espionage. It wasn't violent. He harmed no person and damaged no property. If what Trump did is a crime, it's rightly a misdemeanor worthy of a fine at most, and the law which would make it a literal felony is a retarded law. Of course, everybody knows this.
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@Swagnarok
Okay, that was my bad. I shouldn’t have been so hasty with the whole “felon” thing. However, while not being found guilty yet, he did probably rape E Jean Carrol, and Probably committed election fraud. These are much worse. Also he’s a racist and mysogonist, so even if Biden is a little senile, I prefer him to someone who’s telling Putin to “do whatever he wants”.
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@Moozer325
claimed that his term was the best term ever economically in the history of America, which was SO WRONG.
It's an opinion
He claimed that Democrats supported infanticide
Some do. Stephen singer has argued that it should be allowed up to one month after birth
He lied about his "suckers and losers" quote, which he absolutely did say. He says he has 19 people who can say that he didn't say that, but has not backed that up in the slightest.
He didn't say it. The quote originates from a general and came after the general was fired and just passed at his former boss. It's silly to think this guys stood in a military graveyard surrounded by generals and said this.
Even outside the debate he has lied about the stormy Daniels affair,
The only people who knows if he fu ked stormy Daniels and Donald trump
He also claimed that everybody wanted abortion going back to the states
Hyperbole
during Biden's term the U.S. had the worst national deficit in history
Technically it grows every year so every president has the worst national debt ever. Biden has the worst now, Trump jump will have the worst next and Michelle Obama will have the worst after Trump leaves office. It always gets worse
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@WyIted
It's an opinion
When you get down to the specifics, yes, but we also have economic indicators to measure this stuff. Obviously the country was doing better economically under Calvin Coolidge than Herbert Hoover, not directly due to those presidents though. Coolidge was President during the roaring twenties, and Hoover was President during the depression. It’s not really an opinion when you zoom out at the bigger picture, and on that front trump was totally lying
Some do. Stephen singer has argued that it should be allowed up to one month after birth
But almost all of them don’t. Trump painted it the complete other way.
The only people who knows if he fu ked stormy Daniels and Donald trump
Yeah, and Donald Trump admitted to it on tape, and then later denied it. HE IS A LIAR.
Hyperbole
Unless you make it very clear, hyperbolies can still be construed as lying. He literally said “everyone wanted that”. It’s lying, and it’s shameful, and it’s a blatant attempt to sway uninformed and stupid voters period.
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@Moozer325
Could you catch Trump's BS and call it out in real time and explain in simple terms why it was BS? My bet is that you could if you tried. Trump certainly wasn't making a good show of it so that would be a pretty easy task. Doing so would be a basic demonstration of your grasp on a skill called communication. Biden was not able to do this.
Communication is, like, a politician's one thing. It's basically their entire purpose. Biden was not able to demonstrate his grasp of this skill. Again not a hard task either, it's Donald fucking Trump. If Biden isn't able to meet that low bar for something that is a politician's most important skill then he should step aside for someone that can.
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@Moozer325
Impending senility and the orange Clown.
Is that hairdo really charismatic?
I think that it's more a case of mass stupidity.
From time to time, humans enjoy a bit of mass stupidity.
Inbuilt checks and balances maybe.
Sort of, two steps forwards and one step back,
As it were.
Thing is,
When you have a feature debate between two old men,
The producers and the audience just want daftness.
Sensible, isn't entertaining.
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@Moozer325
But almost all of them don’t. Trump painted it the complete other way.
No he didn't. You didn't watch the debate.
When you get down to the specifics, yes, but we also have economic indicators to measure this stuff. Obviously the country was doing better economically under Calvin Coolidge than Herbert Hoover, not directly due to those presidents though. Coolidge was President during the roaring twenties, and Hoover was President during the depression. It’s not really an opinion when you zoom out at the bigger picture, and on that front trump was totally lying
This is a convoluted way to say you disagree with his opinion.
Yeah, and Donald Trump admitted to it on tape, and then later denied it. HE IS A LIAR.
Then you should be easy to show me the tape where he admits to fucking her.
Unless you make it very clear, hyperbolies can still be construed as lying. He literally said “everyone wanted that”. It’s lying, and it’s shameful, and it’s a blatant attempt to sway uninformed and stupid voters period.
That's just dumb. Not everybody wants anything. Even world peace. Do you think if I said everyone wants world peace I mean everyone or do you thinknits hyperbole and I am excluding people like Jeffrey Dahmer
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@WyIted
Do you think if I said everyone wants world peace I mean everyone or do you thinknits hyperbole and I am excluding people like Jeffrey Dahmer
He did say that democrats specifically wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade. Come on, dude. It's one thing to pretend that an unpopular position is popular by hiding behind hyperbole but Trump couldn't even do that properly.
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@zedvictor4
Is that hairdo really charismatic?I think that it's more a case of mass stupidity.
I think it's a call for an extreme shift. I feel Europe is on the same path, in my opinion. Don’t you agree, Victor?
Why the so called "far right" is getting more popular there in Europe? People are fed up with the stupid left policies that destroy countries. I think the yankees are also tired of it and they feel that for extreme problems created by the lefties they need extreme solutions, and this extreme solution is called Donald Trump.
From what I see, nobody is willing to do what Trump promises to do. People feel the rest of politicians are fagots that have no courage to say what its really happening and apply extreme policies like those proposed by Trump.
Believe me, if the yankees dont get what they need a civil war will come along.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
He did say that democrats specifically wanted to overturn Roe v. Wade
I cringed when he said that because I knew he didn't mean it the way it came across as that is not something that if taken literally he would expect anyone to believe
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@WyIted
No he didn't. You didn't watch the debate.
Not directly, but he very strongly implied it. It’s basically the same thing, and for the record I did watch it. Why would a start a thread on something I didn’t watch?
This is a convoluted way to say you disagree with his opinion
Look, if the economy is a matter of opinion, then why are you so mad about the job Biden has done? Why is it even an issue then? This is just plain stupid.
Then you should be easy to show me the tape where he admits to fucking her.
That’s not what I meant. There’s a recording of him talking with Cohen about the payments, but it’s pretty close to admitting to the affair. Stormy also testified under oath, and the jury found him guilty on all counts, so the evidence is pretty staggering.
Fun fact: one of the members of that jury reported that they got all their news from truth social. If you get all your media consumption from a propaganda source by trump, and still can find him guilty on all counts, he’s probably guilty.
Here’s the recording if you were interested: www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-michael-cohen-audio-hush-money-trial-b2538857.html
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@Moozer325
Look, if the economy is a matter of opinion, then why are you so mad about the job Biden has done? Why is it even an issue then? This is just plain stupid.
My opinion differs from his, but I didn't caLL him a liar for that
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@WyIted
Okay, but he’s clearly trying to mislead unformed voters with hyperbolic and very misleading claims. This doesn’t bother you at all?
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@Moozer325
Okay, but he’s clearly trying to mislead unformed voters with hyperbolic and very misleading claims. This doesn’t bother you at all?
I don't agree with this and even if I did it wouldn't make up for the fact CNN lies every day and all liberals lie about Trump.
Media- Trump said drink bleach to cure covid
Never happened
Trump- some criminals and terrorists are getting across the border
Media- Trump said every single Mexican without exception is a criminal or a terrorist
Trump- makes juke about all of Biden executive orders day one
Media- Trump claims he will be a dictator
It's non stop bro, and you have zero Media literacy so you just believe the bullshit to the point where now that you hear the words put of his mouth, they twisted your brain so you believe some weird shit and not be very charitable with how you interpret his words
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@WyIted
Media- Trump said drink bleach to cure covidNever happened
Show me the article that says this
Trump- some criminals and terrorists are getting across the borderMedia- Trump said every single Mexican without exception is a criminal or a terrorist
Again, show me which media source said this. The way Trump’s rhetoric is, he makes it sound like most of them are terrorists and drug dealers, when most of them are not. He is still lying.
Media- Trump claims he will be a dictator
No one said this. Now your pulling a trump and trying to gaslight me.
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@Moozer325
All Mexicans are criminals
Trump dictator
Those are mainstream news sites lying but I have to seriously wonder if you consume zero media because I hear it on news stations, talk shows, blogs, blogs and commentary channels non stop
Trump’s rhetoric is, he makes it sound like most of them are terrorists and drug dealers, when most of them are not. He is still lying.
Doesn't matter he never says most.
Funny thing is they quote the full co text of the bleach remark so they know he wasn't suggesting injecting it or anything like that, he was speculating what might be possible with future developments