What pro lifers believe on abortion

Author: TheUnderdog

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#1
TheUnderdog
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Pro lifers: Zygote Life matters more than Woman's Pain.

I'm not against them believing that and I honestly agree with that.  But it's an unpopular way to say it.  It doesn't matter.  It's true.

If you disagree with this, then that's fine; but it means you want abortion to be legal and that's fine to believe that.

But I think if a woman doesn't want pregnency, then she should make sure her bf has a vasectomy before she has sex with him.  I'm getting a vasectomy before I have sex; I don't have one right now and that means no woman should have sex with me yet.  Once I get the vasectomy, then mutual consent is important; it's horirble to defend rape.
#2
3RU7AL
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@TheUnderdog
it is impossible to monitor pregnancy (zygote citizenship)

without the most invasive surveillance state imaginable

this is first and foremost about privacy
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#3
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@3RU7AL
this is first and foremost about privacy
I don't understand how privacy applies.  If I rape my girlfriend in a private area, it doesn't matter if it was a private area; the law should still go after me because I harmed someone else to a significant extent.  The same would be true for abortion (although I don't agree with the death penalty or imprisonment for abortion; the penalty should be community service).

The right to privacy is for victimless things only.
#4
WyIted
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I think the purpose of sex is to get somebody pregnant or to get a promotion at work. Unless you want a promotion I don't see why you would get a vasectomy 
#5
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@TheUnderdog
To a mother, some mothers they put their children's lives before their own whether born or unborn.
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@WyIted
 Unless you want a promotion I don't see why you would get a vasectomy 
Because I would rather endure 3 days of vasectomy pain than plausibly risk the girl I'm with having pregnancy pain for 9 months.

Pro vasectomy = pro life due to it virtually eliminating the need for abortion.  Pre vasectomy sperm can be stored in a hospital freezer if kids are ever wanted.
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@Mall
That is a big sacrifice, but I can't tell a woman to do that because I wouldn't be willing to do it myself.
#8
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@TheUnderdog
Because I would rather endure 3 days of vasectomy pain than plausibly risk the girl I'm with having pregnancy pain for 9 months.
Just don't have sex bro

Pro vasectomy = pro life due to it virtually eliminating the need for abortion. Pre vasectomy sperm can be stored in a hospital freezer if kids are ever wanted.
Reducing the number of lives by preventing the existence of those life's is pro life?
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#9
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@WyIted
Just don't have sex bro
I will do this until I get the vasectomy.

Reducing the number of lives by preventing the existence of those life's is pro life?
The vasectomy reduces the number of aborted lives.  The human race can still reproduce by men storing pre vasectomy sperm in a hospital freezer so they can have kids when they want instead of accidentally getting an unplanned kid.
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@TheUnderdog
I guess you handled my objections well. Go on, make yourself less of a man and keep your races numbers in decline so capitalists are forced to import Muslims to replace us
#11
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@TheUnderdog
A mother don't need to be told. That's what the love of a mother is. 
#12
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@TheUnderdog
Just don't have sex bro
I will do this until I get the vasectomy.

Yeah, I think it'll be quite some time either way. I'm pretty sure it's not the lack of a vasectomy that's keeping you from having sex. Can you check in with a mental health professional? Your topics lately have been concerning, it's like there's less coherent thought behind them even once they're decoded. The response to the privacy question, where you say it's the same thing as raping a girlfriend in a private area...I mean come on.  Pregnancy is a medical condition. Raping your girlfriend is a crime. 
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@WyIted
Go on, make yourself less of a man and keep your races numbers in decline so capitalists are forced to import Muslims to replace us
If I actually transitioned to a trans woman, then you would be still claiming that I’m a man.

So by your logic: Trans woman -> Man.  Cisgender man that doesn’t want kids and is getting a vasectomy to prevent maternal pain -> Not a man.  You are acting on emotion so much.  I’m just doing what makes sense.

You claim to be a libertarian.  Meaning if Muslims move here and it grows GDP and population without having to reproduce and pay for the costs of education, then that is called free market capitalism.
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#14
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@Mall
A mother don't need to be told. That's what the love of a mother is. 
Not all women love their kids.  It’s why abortion is a thing.  But I know I wouldn’t love my kids, so I don’t want to make them.
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@ludofl3x
I'm pretty sure it's not the lack of a vasectomy that's keeping you from having sex. 
I’m fine with not having sex even after my vasectomy.  Fiscal conservatives should not have kids because having kids costs a lot of money and the fiscal conservative doesn’t like to spend money.  If I don’t have sex, then so be it.  I don’t believe I’m entitled to sex.  If I don’t get it, that’s fine.

Your topics lately have been concerning, it's like there's less coherent thought behind them even once they're decoded
OP got 4 likes; it makes sense to a lot of people.

The response to the privacy question, where you say it's the same thing as raping a girlfriend in a private area...I mean come on.  Pregnancy is a medical condition. Raping your girlfriend is a crime.
Abortion is not victimless; it causes the homicide of someone else and harms them significantly.  Same thing with rape.  When you harm others, you lose your right to privacy.
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@TheUnderdog
So to be clear, to you, abortion = rape in terms of moral code?
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@ludofl3x
So to be clear, to you, abortion = rape in terms of moral code?
If I didn’t consider bodily autonomy, then I would think abortion is worse than rape because I think murder is worse than rape.  Like, I would rather get raped than murdered.

But bodily autonomy has to be considered (that; and abortion is common), so I think parents of aborted babies should do community service as punishment.

I don’t believe in the death penalty or imprisonment for abortion, but most people that want to ban abortion want to treat it as murder (so life imprisonment or the death penalty for abortion).  I respect the honesty, but it makes me look moderate by comparison.
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@TheUnderdog
this is first and foremost about privacy
I don't understand how privacy applies.  If I rape my girlfriend in a private area, it doesn't matter if it was a private area; the law should still go after me because I harmed someone else to a significant extent.  The same would be true for abortion (although I don't agree with the death penalty or imprisonment for abortion; the penalty should be community service).

The right to privacy is for victimless things only.

the function of the law is dispute resolution between CITIZENS

in your example, the person who believes they were HARMED will petition the state to resolve their dispute between CITIZENS

what happens inside your own body

is beyond the scope of state authority
#19
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@TheUnderdog
OP got 4 likes; it makes sense to a lot of people.
or perhaps they simply thought it was an interesting topic
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#20
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@3RU7AL
the function of the law is dispute resolution between CITIZENS

in your example, the person who believes they were HARMED will petition the state to resolve their dispute between CITIZENS

So if I murder an undocumented immigrant, then should it be legal?  No; the penalty would be death for murder while not being a bodily threat.  The penalty for abortion should be community service (which factors in bodily autonomy; otherwise the penalty would be death).  I'm not pro life; I'm anti-abortion.  It's a less appealing label, but it's more honest, and it's only honesty that is relevant.

I'm also anti ICE, so the idea of it being legal to murder/deport undocumented immigrants is an idea I find repulsive.

what happens inside your own body
Do you think tobacco should be legal to consume?  You would say:

Yes, because it's their body
What if the tobacco addict wants to rob you to satisfy their tobacco addiction?  Should they be allowed to do that?  You would say:

No; that's crazy!

But "their body, their choice".  Oh wait?  A tobacco addict robbing someone to satisfy their right to bodily autonomy harms someone else to a significant extent?  And bodily autonomy to smoke tobacco isn't a good enough reason if it means you have to rob other people to satisfy your tobacco addiction?  Alright; now a precedent is established.

If bodily autonomy is not a good enough reason to rob someone of $8 for tobacco, then bodily autonomy is not a good enough reason to rob someone of their life (I'm assuming objectively speaking, the right to life is worth more than the right to $8).

If a woman doesn't want pregnancy, then she should make sure her bf has a vasectomy before they have sex (like I have no problem getting a vasectomy before I have sex if that's what's needed to prevent abortion).  But abortion should be banned unless there is a 1% chance or higher the mother dies without one.

is beyond the scope of state authority
State authority should prevent homicide from directly happening.  I think that's obvious.  If something has a 100% chance of producing homicide, then it should be illegal to do that (this does not apply to gun laws because there are 20 million AR 15 owners and around 200 or so deaths from mass shootings; the odds of one AR 15 owning person murdering someone from a mass shooting (the expected value) is about 1/100000 (.001%) whereas the expected homicide rate from one woman getting an abortion is 100%).  If 100% of AR 15 owners committed murder, then I would want to ban AR 15s.  But those aren't the odds; .001% is different than 100%.
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So if I murder an undocumented immigrant, then should it be legal?
In 2020, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Hernandez v. Mesa that the family of a Mexican teenager, who was shot and killed by a.S. Border Patrol across the U.S.-Mexico border, could not sue the agent for damages in U.S. courts.
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#22
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@3RU7AL
Well, that's a stupid rule.  Qualified immunity should be repealed and ICE should be abolished.

It's the LAW
Who cares?  Change the stupid laws!

#23
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@TheUnderdog
You say you know but you never know.

Just like your views and positions in the dark today may see the light tomorrow against abortion/same sex marriage and transgenderism.
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@TheUnderdog
The penalty for abortion should be community service (which factors in bodily autonomy; otherwise the penalty would be death).
like the "castle doctrine" perhaps ?

The "castle doctrine" is a legal principle that allows individuals use force, including deadly force, to defend against an intruder in their home without the duty to retreat.
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@TheUnderdog
Well, that's a stupid rule.  Qualified immunity should be repealed and ICE should be abolished.

it illustrates the SCOPE OF THE LAW

everything is based on geographic JURISDICTION

and DISPUTE RESOLUTION BETWEEN CITIZENS

some countries grant unregistered non-citizens a certain legal status

but this is purely at their own discretion and can be changed at any time and for any reason
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I'm also anti ICE, so the idea of it being legal to murder/deport undocumented immigrants is an idea I find repulsive.

does this view reflect some coherent moral or legal theory perhaps ?
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@TheUnderdog
But abortion should be banned unless there is a 1% chance or higher the mother dies without one.
Historically, the chance of dying from pregnancy was significantly higher than 1%. Modern medical advancements have reduced this risk in developed countries to well below 1%.

so i guess you're also in favor of universal health-care for pregnant women ?
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#28
TheUnderdog
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@Mall
Just like your views and positions in the dark today may see the light tomorrow against abortion/same sex marriage and transgenderism.
I’m anti abortion, but I’m pro LGBT, even to the extent where I’m willing to date a transwoman (I prefer post op; I don’t know how I would fuck someone with a dick).  I do believe in waiting until marriage though despite being atheist.  High body counts are bad for mental health.


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#29
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@3RU7AL
The "castle doctrine" is a legal principle that allows individuals use force, including deadly force, to defend against an intruder in their home without the duty to retreat.
The difference between a conventional intruder and an unborn kid is the intruder chose to be in the home.  The unborn kid never chose to be in the woman’s uterus.

it illustrates the SCOPE OF THE LAW

everything is based on geographic JURISDICTION

and DISPUTE RESOLUTION BETWEEN CITIZENS

some countries grant unregistered non-citizens a certain legal status

but this is purely at their own discretion and can be changed at any time and for any reason
So change the law.  Or at least advocate for changing the law.

does this view reflect some coherent moral or legal theory perhaps ?
My moral theory is in my profile description.  It’s LUSHOOTY (Liberty Unless Significantly Harming Others Or Too Young).  Because there should be no minimum age to enter this country and the undocumented aren’t significantly harming others, liberty should be granted here (ie liberty to not get deportation).  Since abortion DOES significantly harm someone else (unborn human), then liberty should NOT be granted here.

so i guess you're also in favor of universal health-care for pregnant women ?
No because it violates the LUSHOOTY ethos because you are significantly harming the taxpayer to get universal healthcare.
#30
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So by your logic: Trans woman -> Man. Cisgender man that doesn’t want kids and is getting a vasectomy to prevent maternal pain -> Not a man. You are acting on emotion so much. I’m just doing what makes sense.
Let me tell you something. Being a woman is a much higher honor than being a man. That natural beauty and their feminine nature cannot be artificially recreated. 

Your still a man if you get a vasectomy, but a lesser one. You can never ever succeed at becoming a woman. Trust me, if I thought cutting off my dick would make me become the greater sex, I would do it in a heart beat.