34 Felony Counts Guilty

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ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R

That was the entire point of the trial.
I agree, he was found guilty of trying to gain the US presidency against the wishes of the deep state.


What the hell did Micheal Cohen gain by borrowing 130k against his house to pay off a porn star he didn’t sleep with?
Impressing Trump apparently.


What is wrong with you?
What's wrong with Cohen? That's what he told his own lawyer he did and why.


Non disclosure isn't a product 
Yes it absolutely is when the person already has the information.
Ok crazy person


we’re not talking about an NDA in any traditional sense.
It's a magic illegal NDA because apparently NDAs are illegal if they're compensated and have anything to do with anyone running for office. Uness you're Bill Clinton, then you can settle for $850,000 and it's not a campaign contribution.


This was “you have information that would be damaging to me so I want to purchase it from you”.
"Hello, Fedex? Yes I want to deliver some information ASAP.... Of course I need you to erase it from the sender's memory. Well I know the contract says 'non-disclosure' but I thought that mean that somehow I was buying information from someone's brain like some kind of a supermarket shelf?... So 'non-disclosure' is an agreement to not disclose claimed information?.... Are you a racist maggot insurrectionist?"


Why is this so difficult for you guys?
Why do you gaslight? Isn't it obvious it isn't working?
Double_R
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It doesn't do Trump any favors to take out a personal loan and then force Trump to pay back everything plus taxes when Trump could have just paid Cohen directly without taxes, interest, or Cohen's collateral. There is no loyalty there, there is deceiving Trump and the only possible reason to deceive Trump is Cohen is a goofball with delusions of grandeur who thought he would do all this stuff and pretend to be a wizard or as he puts it "a fixer"
The facts are that Trump slept with a porn star, then in the middle of running for president his personal attorney barrows $130k against his own house to pay off that porn star to not tell anyone about the affair she had with Trump, Trump then pays that attorney back for the deal with notes written by his accountant showing the added taxes to cover hiding the payments as legal services.

And the explanation you think best explains this is that Trump’s personal attorney - a known sleaze bag who also stole from Trump - did this all on his own to help Trump and didn’t even tell him because he wanted to play pretend fixer?

Hey did you know the Brooklyn bridge is for sale?

This is what happens when people go down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole. There is no circumstance where if we remove Trump and Cohen and substitute them for generic presidential candidate and generic personal attorney that any reasonable person would not instantly recognize how ridiculous this story is.

What reasonable people who are not in a cult would do is apply Occam’s razor. People do what they perceive to be in their best interest. So if you are going to claim Cohen went rogue you would either need to show that Cohen was either the kind of person who would risk his well being for Trump (which is kind of hard being that Cohen stole from him) or that Cohen had a grand scheme here to benefit himself. You haven’t provided anything that explains this.

Nor do you address the fact that Trump is on tape discussing the McDougal deal with Cohen, showing that he absolutely was involved in these kinds of things.

Nor do you address David Pecker’s testimony showing Trump’s heavy involvement in stopping negative stories from coming out against him.

Nor do you address the timing of all of this which fits perfectly with the prosecutions narrative explaining exactly why Trump would be motivated to engage in this while keeping it secret.

Facts be dammed. This is what being in a cult actually looks like.

It is insane to claim someone would do by illegal means what one can do by legal means just as easily.
To do so legally would have meant disclosing the payments, which would have defeated the entire purpose of this.

Do you even understand what the allegations here were?

so the insane gaslighting obvious falsehood that paying a lawyer is in no way a legal expense
The payment wasn’t to the lawyer, it was to Stormy Daniels.

Or to explain it like Hannity and Rudy Giuliani… it was “funneled through the law firm”.

Lawyers get paid big money. They send the invoices. Accountants don't follow them around with drones to see how many hours they worked. A lot of business relationships work based on trust
Right, the “Trump has no idea what everyone who working for him was doing” defense. Cause you know, he’s a strong competent leader.

Lawyers provide an itemized breakdown for their services showing what they did to charge the fees they did. You’re trying to argue that Trump just paid Cohen blindly, which is absurd on its face given how cheap we all know Donald Trump is - the guy doesn’t even pay people who did work for him.

But it’s even worse when again… Trump’s own accountant had the breakdown of what Cohen was getting paid and why. They all knew what was going on despite your gaslighting to the contrary.

Legal expenses aren't limited to payment for services. They include court fees, settlement sums, research, copying, notaries, verified delivery, paying fines, paying liabilities, and more.
Yes, legal fees include compensation to the attorney for any expenses they have incurred that were necessary for them to provide their services. That can include the pen and paper they used, their gas mileage when traveling etc. That’s because a law firm is a business and like any business it has expenses. You know what is not a business expense? Paying off a porn star for their silence. That’s the client’s expense.

Let’s look at your definition and point to one of those terms; “settlement”. Here’s a great example. Question for you… if the client agrees to a settlement payment, is that settlement taxable income for the recipient?

Answer: yes, it is taxable as income (with exceptions like a work place injury, etc.). So why does this matter? Because if this is income… where did this income come from?

Hint: Not the law firm.

It is income paid by the client, the law firm was just the entity handing it over. The law firm charges for the services they provided to execute the agreement. The money they handed right over to her is not part of that.

The only way for "legal expense" to be substantially false is for the expense to have nothing to do with lawyers, courts, judges, negotiated contracts, criminal liability, or civil liability (all at once).
So to be clear, if I have my attorney go out and find me a prostitute to sleep with, pay her and then bring her to my house so I could have sex with her… is the money he paid her that I reimbursed a “legal expense”. He is my lawyer after all, right?

Who could have guessed campaign finance law made compensated NDAs illegal?
It didn’t. What’s illegal is making the contribution but reporting it as “legal expenses” so that no one would know it was a campaign contribution.
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Unlike your opinions, NDA's are not bound by context "senses" 

It's a precise legal document.
He didn’t pay $130k for a document.
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
Who could have guessed campaign finance law made compensated NDAs illegal?
It didn’t. What’s illegal is making the contribution but reporting it as “legal expenses” so that no one would know it was a campaign contribution.
So it would have had to been written down "campaign contribution" even "NDA" would have been fraudulent in your opinion?

Greyparrot
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Where's the proof that campaign funds were used?
Double_R
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@ADreamOfLiberty
So it would have had to been written down "campaign contribution" even "NDA" would have been fraudulent in your opinion
He wasn’t prosecuted because he used the wrong words on a piece of paper.

Trump made what was in fact a campaign contribution, but he did not report it as such because doing so would have become public information which would have opened the contribution up to scrutiny thereby unraveling the whole scheme. Or to put it more simply; The point was to keep it secret, publicly reporting the payment would have accomplished the opposite.

So instead he conspired with his attorney and accountant to represent the payment as something it wasn’t (legal expenses).
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Where's the proof that campaign funds were used?
Campaign funds weren’t used despite this payment being made for the benefit of the campaign. That’s the whole point.

How are you guys so angry over a prosecution you don’t even know the basics of?
Greyparrot
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@Double_R
Kinda hard to get facts when the Judge summarily dismissed every exculpatory witness.

Kinda hard to charge someone with a campaign finance violation if you don't discuss that violation.

Oh that's right, he wasn't formerly charged with any campaign finance violation.... he was charged if the jury "felt" he violated the law.
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@Double_R
Campaign funds weren’t used despite this payment being made for the benefit of the campaign. 
Can you cite the exact law that says this is illegal? If it is, he just admitted to another campaign finance violation here:
Greyparrot
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However, campaign funds may not be used when the action is primarily personal in nature, such as a matrimonial action, or could result in a direct personal benefit for the Member.

Looks like "They" would have charged Trump either way. If he used campaign funds to benefit his marriage, that would be a violation. The fix was always in.
IwantRooseveltagain
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Kinda hard to get facts when the Judge summarily dismissed every exculpatory witness.
That’s a lie. As usual you are lying.

IwantRooseveltagain
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Where's the proof that campaign funds were used?
Well genius, if anyone spends money with your complicity to benefit your campaign, then ITS A CAMPAIGN CONTRIBUTION!

When Pecker and Cohen spent money to benefit Trump’s campaign, with the knowledge and involvement of Trump, then it’s a campaign contribution.

Trump asked them to pay this hush money.

Greyparrot
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Biden cultists lie.

"the judge ruled this morning that allowing Smith to testify expansively on that topic would supplant the judge's role to determine what the law is."

In other words, biased judge goes rogue, because the only interpretation that will be heard is what the judge says, not what the jury might hear.
IwantRooseveltagain
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Biden cultists lie.
To MAGA MORONS, words have no meaning.

To them “limit scope of testimony” =  “Judge summarily dismissed every exculpatory witness”

Because they’re morons.



Greyparrot
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His exculpatory testimony was dismissed. That's all we know and all we need to know.
IwantRooseveltagain
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His exculpatory testimony was dismissed.
That’s a lie. As usual you are lying.

MAGA MORONS are liars



Greyparrot
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Biden cultists lie.
Trump's team wanted the expert to testify about details of campaign finance law.
The judge said he couldn't talk about the law. He dismissed his testimony.
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
So it would have had to been written down "campaign contribution" even "NDA" would have been fraudulent in your opinion
He wasn’t prosecuted because he used the wrong words on a piece of paper.
Obviously, but that is what the gaslighters are saying. Now you're gaslighting the gaslight.


Where's the proof that campaign funds were used?
Campaign funds weren’t used despite this payment being made for the benefit of the campaign. That’s the whole point.
Apparently you're only allowed to use other people's money to kill stories and compensate NDAs. Who knew? Actually no one because it's false.
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Greyparrot
However, campaign funds may not be used when the action is primarily personal in nature, such as a matrimonial action, or could result in a direct personal benefit for the Member.
Looks like "They" would have charged Trump either way. If he used campaign funds to benefit his marriage, that would be a violation. The fix was always in.
Of course they would have. They would have just claimed paying a lawyer isn't a campaign expenditure and that's fraud and violating FEC rules against personnel expenses.

Like I said, NDAs are illegal; but only for Trump. Even Cohen who they claim did it is immune.
IwantRooseveltagain
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  “Judge summarily dismissed every exculpatory witness”

Now backtrack to this:

“The judge said he couldn't talk about the law“

MAGA MORONS prefer to live in an alternate universe and they certainly don’t understand who gets to decide what the law is in a criminal court.
Greyparrot
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@ADreamOfLiberty

I suppose the next step will be assassination. 
Sidewalker
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@Greyparrot
I suppose the next step will be assassination. 
Yes, we will either zap him with our Jewish Space Lasers or give him cancer with our wind turbines, maybe both.
Double_R
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@Greyparrot
Oh that's right, he wasn't formerly charged with any campaign finance violation.... he was charged if the jury "felt" he violated the law.
The law doesn’t require that he be charged with the other violation, only that he falsified the business records with the intent to commit another crime.

Determining intent is nothing new, happens in almost every criminal trial, ever.

Looks like "They" would have charged Trump either way. If he used campaign funds to benefit his marriage, that would be a violation. The fix was always in.
Correct, when you do illegal things, the law is fixed to make sure you get charged.

In other words, biased judge goes rogue, because the only interpretation that will be heard is what the judge says, not what the jury might hear.
Imagine a world where the judge has the final say on how the law should be interpreted and applied the case at hand and not the defendant’s hand picked attorney. Crazy.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Like I said, NDAs are illegal; but only for Trump.
The argument has never been that NDA’s are illegal. You know this despite your rage filled projection.

Buying a pack of cigarettes is legal, until you buy it for a 12 year old.

Having sex is legal, until you do it against the will of the person you’re having sex with.

Picking up someone at the bank is legal, until you do it knowing they just robbed the place.

I could go on, because this is really, really, really basic common sense; The reason why you do something matters.

The NDA wasn’t illegal. Hell, even executing it during the campaign wasn’t illegal. Not reporting it as the campaign contribution it actually was… that’s where it became illegal. And the effort to hide this by documenting it as a business expense, that’s where it became a felony.

This isn’t complicated, unless you want it to be. And you clearly want it to be. Your sense of identity and self worth is too far tied into your delusions of civil war heroism to concern yourself with reality. You really need to layoff the John Wayne movies.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Even Cohen who they claim did it is immune.
He pleaded guilty to it and spent three years incarcerated because of it along with a few other charges.

Liars gonna lie.
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@Double_R
@ADreamOfLiberty
The law doesn’t require that he be charged with the other violation, only that he falsified the business records with the intent to commit another crime.

Well, that certainly seems like a 6th Amendment violation worthy of SCOTUS review.
ADreamOfLiberty
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@Double_R
Like I said, NDAs are illegal; but only for Trump.
The argument has never been that NDA’s are illegal.
Then how could Trump pay for an NDA?


Buying a pack of cigarettes is legal, until you buy it for a 12 year old.
So buying an NDA is legal, until you buy it for Trump.


Not reporting it as the campaign contribution it actually was
Indictment unnecessary, guilty until proven... actually just guilty no proof will be accepted.


This isn’t complicated
Biden raped his daughter just by showering with her naked <- not complicated just false
Biden raped his daughter by eating ice cream <- not complicated but obviously irrevocably only an insane lying cultist would claim false [you are here]


He pleaded guilty to it
He was never charged with it, it is impossible to plead guilty to crimes you were never charged with.
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@Greyparrot
Well, that certainly seems like a 6th Amendment violation worthy of SCOTUS review.
Really? How so?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
The argument has never been that NDA’s are illegal.
Then how could Trump pay for an NDA?
By reporting it as a campaign contribution

So buying an NDA is legal, until you buy it for Trump.
The stupidity of this response really speaks to the issue with MAGA. This isn’t complicated so you go out of your way to strawman it to make it seem as silly as possible. Reality is a real thing. Deal with it.

Indictment unnecessary, guilty until proven... actually just guilty no proof will be accepted.
Apparently you missed the trial where they provided documents, played recordings and interviewed witnesses. You are free to use google you’d like to catch up.

He pleaded guilty to it
He was never charged with it, it is impossible to plead guilty to crimes you were never charged with.
Funny, the southern district of NY seems to think otherwise.

But why listen to them? The only person who understands how the law works is ADOL on debateart.com.
Greyparrot
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Because there exists a law where you do not have to be charged for an underlying crime to be found guilty.

6th Amendment strictly prohibits this.