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RaymondSheen
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A Response To The Skeptic's Annotated Bible (SAB): What The Bible Says About The End Of The World

The SAB indicates that, according to the Bible, the end would come within the lifetime of Jesus' listeners. I will demonstrate why this is not the case by explaining the verses they use to conclude this. They mistake the transfiguration, the destruction of Jerusalem, Jesus being at the right hand of power, and John's Revelation at Patmos as referring to the end of the world.

Matthew 16:28 - Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. (Also see Mark 9:1; Luke 9:27)

The Interpreter's Bible says: "The prediction was not fulfilled, and later Christians found it necessary to explain that it was metaphorical."

What believers and skeptics alike seem to have glossed over is the fact that in the very next verse Matthew reveals that just 6 days later this prophecy was fulfilled. Peter, James and John witnessed the transfiguration. (Matthew 17:1-2; Luke 9:27-36; 2 Peter 1:16-18)

Matthew 23:36 - Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. (Also see Matthew 24:34; Mark 13:30; Luke 21:32)

All of the above verses differ from the verses given in consideration of Matthew 16:28. British scholar G. R. Beasley-Murray: "The phrase 'this generation' should cause no difficulty for interpreters. While admittedly genea in earlier Greek meant birth, progeny, and so race, . . . in the [Greek Septuagint] it most frequently translated the Hebrew term dor, meaning age, age of humankind, or generation in the sense of contemporaries. . . . In sayings attributed to Jesus the term appears to have a twofold connotation: on the one hand it always signifies his contemporaries, and on the other hand it always carries an implicit criticism."

So Jesus could have been directing that statement to the Jewish opposition there around him at that time, who, within a generation would see the destruction of Jerusalem in 66 - 70 CE by Titus, the son of Emperor Vespasian where 1,100,000 Jews died and 97,000 were taken captive, most of whom died horrible deaths and the Christians who knew it would come were saved. (Matthew 24:16, 22) And Jesus may have been applying the same to those in opposition in the future as well.

Matthew 26:64 and Mark 14:62 are parallel accounts to one another and you won't have to wait or look far to see them fulfilled. Acts 7:55-56: "But he, being full of holy spirit gazed into heaven and caught sight of God's glory and of Jesus standing at God's right hand, and he said: "Look! I behold the heavens opened up and the Son of man standing at God's right hand." Also see Psalm 110:1; Luke 22:69; Ephesians 1:20; Colossians 3:1.

John 21:20-23 is somewhat interesting. Jesus may have been telling Peter that John would live longer than him, and in fact John would live 70 years, but also he might have been referring to the prophetic vision that John was given at the end of his life while in exile on the island of Patmos. As recorded in the book of Revelation John was transported to "the Lords day." (Revelation 1:1, 10; Revelation 22:20)

[SAB] - The end will come within the lifetime of the New Testament authors.

Response: Jesus taught his followers that no one, not even Jesus himself, knew the time of the end of the world. (Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32; Acts 1:7)

Also at this point some clarification should be made as to what exactly is the "end of the world." The Bible says that Earth was given to man for him to fill and subdue it, that the meek will inherit the earth and live forever upon it, and that it will last forever. (Genesis 1:28; Psalm 37:29; 115:16; Ecclesiastes 1:4) The end of the world is the end of the present system of things and all that involves. Of Satan's influence and sin, which, when concluding brings much destruction, but when ended, allows peace.

1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 7:29; Philippians 1:10 all convey the importance of the missionary work in the early stages of Christianity. They all had important work to do before the end of their lives. Nowhere in any of these passages is it conveyed that they expected the end of the system of things to occur during that time.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 is often used to support the rapture, but actually it is referring to some who were mourning the death of their fellow Christians. Paul was reminding them as well as faithful Christians in the future of the resurrection hope, some to heaven immediately upon death and some to paradise earth upon resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 refers to the presence of Jesus Christ. The Greek noun parousia is used. It means "being alongside." In his work on The Parousia, Israel P. Warren, D.D., wrote: "Had our translators done with this technical word 'parousia' as they did with 'baptisma,' - transferring it unchanged, - or if translated using its exact etymological equivalent, presence, and had it been well understood, as it then would have been, that there is no such thing as a 'Second Presence,' I believe that the entire doctrine would have been different from what it now is. The phrases, 'second advent,' and 'second coming,' would never have been heard of. The church would have been taught to speak of The Presence Of The Lord, as that from which its hopes were to be realized, whether in the near future or at the remotest period, - that under which the world was to be made new, a resurrection both spiritual and corporeal should be attained, and justice and everlasting awards administered."

The word occurs 24 times in the Christian Greek scripture: Matthew 24:3, 27, 37, 39; 1 Corinthians 15:23; 16:17; 2 Corinthians 7:6, 7; 10:10; Philippians 1:26; 2:12; 1 Thessalonians 2:19; 3:13; 4:15; 5:23; 2 Thessalonians 2:1, 8, 9; James 5:7, 8; 2 Peter 1:16; 3:4, 12; 1 John 2:28.

Pareimi is a related verb with the similar meaning of being present. It also occurs 24 times in the Christian Greek scripture: Matthew 26:50; Luke 13:1; John 7:6; 11:28; Acts 10:21, 33; 12:20; 17:6; 24:19; Acts 12:20; 1 Corinthians 5:3, 3; 2 Corinthians 10:2, 11; 2 Corinthians 11:9; 13:2, 10; Galatians 4:18, 20; Colossians 1:6; Hebrews 12:11; 13:5; 2 Peter 1:9, 12; Revelation 17:8.

The Greek word, eleusis (Latin adventu), which conveys the physical act of coming is different and only occurs once in the Christian Greek scripture, at Acts 7:52. Paul was encouraging those with a heavenly hope to remain blameless until their death, or the conclusion of the system of things and the presence, not the physical presence, of Jesus Christ.

In discussing Hebrews 1:2; 9:26; 1 Peter 1:20; 4:7 it is somewhat difficult to stay on topic of the so called end of the world because the last days that Paul was referring to were not the last days of the present system of things, but rather the last days of the Jewish system of things. Jehovah had given the prophecy of those days 850 years earlier. (Joel 2:28-32; Acts 2:16-21; Hebrews 1:1-2) It was the end of God's favor upon the Jewish congregation and the beginning of his favor for the new Christian congregation.

1 John 2:18 refers to the end of the apostolic period. The work mentioned as important in the scriptures at the beginning of this article were near completion and would conclude upon the death of John shortly after he completed the writing of Revelation.

[SAB] - The end will come soon. (Within a couple thousand years or so)

Response: It is interesting that, as with the case of Philippians 4:5, the Lord that is being referred to isn't Jesus Christ but rather, Jehovah. Codex Sinaiticus, Greek, fourth century CE, Codex Alexandrinus, Greek, fifth century CE, Vatican ms 1209, Greek, fourth century CE, Christian Greek Scriptures in 12 languages, including Hebrew, by Elias Hutter, Nuremberg, 1599, Christian Greek Scriptures, Hebrew, by William Robertson, London, 1661, and the Latin Vulgate, by Jerome, c. 400 CE (Iuxta Vulgatam Versionem) all read Jehovah.

James 5:7-8 is talking about the presence (parousia) mentioned earlier in this article.

At Hebrews 10:37 Paul quotes Habakkuk 2:2-3 from the Greek Septuagint, which reads "And the Lord answered [me] and said: Write a vision; write it distinctly in a book that the reader may trace these things [may run]; for the vision is for a time yet to come. But it will spring up at last and will not be vain. Though he may tarry, wait for him; for he will assuredly come and will not fail [and will not tarry]."

Revelation 1:1, 3; 3:11; 22:7, 12, 20 may undoubtedly amuse the skeptic, who, of course, is familiar with the Biblical fact that a thousand years are as a watch in the night to God (Psalm 90:4), but to the writers of the Bible, especially John when writing Revelation and who would die shortly afterward, the resurrection hope would follow sleep in death which would seem, upon that resurrection, as the same day as they died, though it actually had been thousands of years.



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@RaymondSheen
The end of the world. 

It's mostly a doomsday cultish thing. Or in our modern day, it's a scientific expectation of doom. Mostly meant to demonstrate that humanity is evil. 

As for the Bible, I enjoyed reading some of your blurb.   I think we are still living in the early days of the church personally. Well perhaps the church is more adolescent than an infant, but she certainly is not anywhere near perfect, in one sense. Yes, through Christ, perfectly justified, but practically, a lot of work to do. And from what I see, the JW are just as bad along with the Mormons.  

I agree there is a lot of misunderstanding in relation to the term end of the world, or end of the age. 

I take the view that Paul and Jesus and Peter were talking about two different things. Not metaphorical, but two separate events. In Mark 13 for instance, there is what will occur in the generation Jesus lived, and then there was what will take place when he returns.  

The Jewish understanding of history is linear, not cyclical. Yes, there are cyclical aspects to it but overall it was linear. They talked about the end of the age, or the end of the world, and they talked about new heavens and new earth. This has occurred several times in history. For example, after Noah's flood, there was a new heaven and new earth. The old heaven and old earth had disappeared. Literally, in the Biblical image, the firmament was gone, even as the earth itself was washed away. 

Jesus, death sparked another transition of old to new. His death meant God tore the curtain in the temple from top to bottom. A new age was dawning, no longer did people require a temporary high priest, for Jesus now was the eternal high priest.(Proving by the way that he was more than an angel and was not created) Yet, the rebellious priests who rejected Christ continued to practice their now defunct priestly duties, so within a generation, the temple was destroyed.  Then no more sacrifices were necessary. The abomination of desolation could stop. And with the end of the temple, the covenant between Israel and God came to an end. that was the end of an age and the start of something new. 

Hence, from many people's point of view, the end of the world literally took place. And a new age, the age to come, started.  Hence, many Christians believe we live in the age to come that was spoken of by Jesus.  Now we consider we are in the Millenium. Not a literal 1000 years, but a period of time between the first and the second comings. We say Christ is ruling from his throne, the Throne of God, also known as the Throne of David.  And the proof of his sitting on that throne was Pentecost. That was the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. We knew he was there because the Holy Spirit had been poured out. The great reversal in history was happening. From the days of the Tower of Babel, where the languages were divided, now in Christ, and by the Spirit of God, the languages were being understood by all. 

Of course, a day is coming when the Lord shall return and judge the world. This might happen any time, but in my poor understanding, it won't happen until the world itself is converted to Christ and the last nation converted will be Israel. This is what the book of Romans 10 and 11 tells us.  

I also don't think this is likely to happen until the church grows up a bit, stops wondering about its identity and becomes salt and light in the world.  At the moment, like a young teenager, it is all over the place, emotionally draining, struggling with identity, and not concerned for holiness. This of course is a generalisation and there are many parts of the church, where growth is happening, both spiritually and numerically and where salt and light and holiness is pursued. I'm thinking long term historically, not as individuals that God is certainly working with. 

We should always be careful when talking about the church. It is the Bride of Christ after all, and I know that I wouldn't be too pleased if someone called my bride, heretical, apostate etc.  

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@Tradesecret
@RaymondSheen
You two are Bible grandmasters.

Fight! Fight! Fight!
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@RaymondSheen
Meaning, the end of the world or the end of humanity?
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@zedvictor4
World.

"Also at this point some clarification should be made as to what exactly is the "end of the world." The Bible says that Earth was given to man for him to fill and subdue it, that the meek will inherit the earth and live forever upon it, and that it will last forever. (Genesis 1:28; Psalm 37:29; 115:16; Ecclesiastes 1:4) The end of the world is the end of the present system of things and all that involves. Of Satan's influence and sin, which, when concluding brings much destruction, but when ended, allows peace."
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Not having to prove a God exists. 
Your welcome.  
Move along. 

They push.

Allowing you guys to Have your " christian "  God inspiring / doing the holy bible . Guys .
We could probably do that for them ? 
Dont want to butttttt. 
What the fuck ever. 
But thats it right.  
Now Move along.

They push. 

Wellllllll 
What about
God talking to "us" via Golden plates from inside of hat.  
Can we accept it. ? 

' spits in furious anger. ' 
' talks under breath '  
Them fucking rat bastards.  

GUYS ? 
Why the FUCK NOT HEY. 

Whatever the theists decide. 
Its totally up to them.  
We can just go from there

Actually no fuck it. 
A toast. 
To the theists 

'TO THE THEISTS ' , 
 
THE RELIGION FORUM WINNERS.
OF ALLLLLLLL TIME.
FULL FUCKING STOP 


Bugger it. 
They got us good.
' hand out to shake ' 
Fair game.
Fair game.

Theists.     1.     
Atheists.     negative a hundred.  

END OF THE WORLD .... HERE WE COME.

All we can ask isssss . 
Can you guys please let us know when the worlds going to end,  so we can prepare a little for it. 

Thanks guys,  much appreciated.  
' bites fist '   arrrrrrrrr. 


XOXO .

Three cheers to the THEISTS. 
Hip, Hip, Hip. 

Ray. Ray. Ray.  



Fucking wankers. 
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@Best.Korea
They both translate scriptures REAL FUCKING GOOD LIKE.

You and i BK are the worst translators on site.
With You being a fraction bit better then i. 

Over 85% translations always come out ,   
EAT YOUR VEGETABLES IF YOU WANT TO GROW UP BIG AND STRONG.  
And the rest , 
Welll
UP THERE BALDY.m
Ever second scripture im trying to make said  scripture allude to  Bears attacking kids. 


Maybe i can explain this better in song .
From the TOP.
A one.
A two. 
A one two three four.,

Just the two of usss.
We Couldn't translate shit if we tried.  
Poor decipherers.  
You and I. 
You and I. 

Thank you. 
Thank you very much.

Actually. 
Dont tell know one BK .
Butttttttt, heres what i do.,
Instead of i translating scriptures.  
I just adopted the meaning from whom i think are the best of the best.
Thusss
Im prob the best translator we have here on site., 
Lar dee fucking dar.

Sometimes i like to make the meanings of scriptures really really dark and evil.
Yepper.

But ummm , 

I kneel down right  , like im squatting.
And then.
I just simply tilt foward until fall.
 Well.
Thats how i roll. 

Imagine the judge or judges of a scripture translating competition. 

The pope.  Perhaps. 
A Scholar arrrrr., 
And Stephen. 
 
 

 
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A theist once told me. 
I have poor grammar and my posts are hard to read. 

And in the same post he was translating a scripture. 
Ha. 

I told him.  

Patricia  22 : 49.         I was very sorry about that. 

Problem solved.


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@zedvictor4
@RaymondSheen
zedvictor4 wrote: Meaning, the end of the world or the end of humanity?

RaymondSheen wrote:

World

"Also at this point some clarification should be made as to what exactly is the "end of the world."[.........................]The end of the world is the end of the present system of things and all that involves.
A
The BIBLE makes it quite plain that it is the end of the "age" that is coming to an end, meaning the "old age", the age of the Ram is coming to an end to be replaced by a "new age" the age of the Fish. A subject that I have covered many times on his forum. It was to be replaced  with a new king under a god. The Sumerians explain in some depth these change - overs from one house to another that happen every 1116 years  (if my memory serves me). 


B
What most thicko Christians cannot grasp is that when Jesus speaks of "this generation" in his time, he is meaning all those born under the house that was occupying the heavens/sky in his time: the Ram.

C
   Something else they cannot grasp is that when the change over actually occurred and mankind was firmly established under the new house of the Fish- Pisces,  is that anyone born under the new house in the new age were all Pisceans no matter what day, month or year they are born in the duration of that house(1116 years), hence the many references to fish and "fishermen" in the NT gospels. 12 houses, 12 tribes and all with their own house and god. 
The new age has now dawned and we are in the age of Water / Aquarius and anyone born between now and the end of this present age are all Aquarians.  To the ancients this was the "law" that was established hundreds of thousands of years before the bible, Abraham and Jesus were even thought of. Of course these transitions never went as smoothly as hoped.  There was always a "god" that refused to relinquish power to the new "god" of the new age without a an argument which inevitably ended is war.  

When Jesus said "I have not come to change the law but to fulfil it", he knew exactly what he was talking about.





[the end of] Of Satan's influence and sin, which, when concluding brings much destruction, but when ended, allows peace."

See, A,B & particularly  C above.
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@RaymondSheen
My prognostications ---posted in thread--- calculate 2015 as end date, and were 8 years beyond that. Issac Newton has had several end dates, one of which as approximately 2065. Here is the thread I created on that, and revised my approach over time from the the first post on the end date for humanity { or however many }.


Origins of Bilateral O|O Humans

..." She managed to do it during the studies of Lingula anatina which is a representative of inarticulate brachiopods. Lingula is one of the oldest brachiopods having survived survived to the present day. It is known from the Early Ordovician what means about 500 million years ago. The fossils of Lingula are found all over the world. Most of the were found in Europe, Southeast Asian and North America.

"Our study shows that there is a group of the Lophophore animals among the Bilateria -- Lophotrochozoa taxon, which includes the largest variety of types of animals, -- Elena Temereva says, -- The lophophore is a special organ that carries tentacles. Phoronids, brachiopods and bryozoans (ectoprocts) have collectively been called lophophorate, because they have the lophophore. However, multiple molecular phylogenetics data shows that there is no united group of the Lophophore animals."

....By virtue of the fact that there are tentacles among the two main taxons of bilaterally symmetrical animals, it is logical to assume that the common ancestor also had them. It means that the common ancestor of chordate animals including people also had tentacles," -- Elena Temereva explains.

Therefore, the common ancestor of bilaterally symmetrical animals had tentacular appendages, which is consistent with the ideas of the Russian zoological school. "...

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For 20 minutes in approximately 100 AD, Jesus appeared in Athens (he was very much against landing in Roma, as you can imagine) got some bread, a little Feta, some olive oil, and some wine, and went down to the beach.
There, he hung with the fisherman for the day, read some of the drivel Paul had been saying while he'd been gone, and generally just took in the sun and surf.
At the end of the day, he checked in with Dad…
“Nope, Dad - 100 years later, these idiots are all pretty much the same. No - another big purge isn't going make a difference. You tried that already. Where'd it get us?
Ya know what I say? FUCK it. Free will failed. Either build them perfect outta the box, just like the birds and the bees, or stop hoping they'll get it on their own. They are NOT self-correcting. For every one of them that eventually sees the light, 10 blow themselves up and take 20 with them…
Oh? That's the PLAN, you say? Saves you having to lift a finger does it? Just let them wipe THEMSELVES out…? How longs THAT gonna take? 3000 years? Ok, I can wait…”

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He doesn't get out like he use to thats for sure. 

God use to be cool . 
He use to be funnn.,
Going around , Blowing cunts minds turning up in his ( FLAMING BUSH Attire.)
Crazy  Mo Fo. His  Party tricks and shit. 
A real pleasure to be around. 

But it then stopped.
He got alllll serious and shit. 

About the time he
" laid down the MO fo law "
Its was almost like he was  ummmm, dare i say "  Ageing 
Like getting Older. 

' Alarm rings ' 
☆☆☆☆☆   ITS TIME FOR A EMBARRASSING QUESTIONS ☆☆☆☆

I think i know the answer buttttt, 
To be safe. 

God doesn't age right guys. ? 

He don't hey? 
His not 72 right.

( For reference ) 
Keepin mind that Noah was barley 500 when he built the archy  and Adam died before he was even A SINGLE  THOUSAND YEARS  better ( 1 ) 
One thousand years old. 

Gods older then that right.?

Butttttt he aint FUN no more. 
He just aint around.  
He is allllll about score keeping and watching us humans
He hangs out in a shity old hotel now. 
Room servicing.
 

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@Stephen
@RaymondSheen
So perhaps metaphorically predicting the age of a new intelligence.

Now, I can certainly run with that idea.
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@zedvictor4
So perhaps metaphorically predicting the age of a new intelligence.

Now, I can certainly run with that idea.


Well, I would say that you hit the post with that come-back, Vic. Considering that every generation are offered - or born into something new. If you get my meaning.   

i.e. TV was a "miracle" to my old dad and mum. No doubt my Grandad & Grandmother thought it was the work of the devil.  If you get my meaning?   

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@Stephen
Receiving you loud and clear Stephen.
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@zedvictor4
What about an age of old intelligence? 
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@RaymondSheen
Not sure what you mean.

Do you mean a previous extinct intelligence or an existing one?

Though I would suggest that all new data has evolved from old data.

Therefore I see no reason why all data should not be a crucial element of the global data matrix, and presumably a future universal data matrix.

Nonetheless, I would further suggest that in terms of data evolution, now is always at the cutting edge, whether that be here or elsewhere.
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@Best.Korea
I don't have any desire to fight against Raymond. 

As for him being a bible master or me for that matter, I think I'll pass.  Raymond knows a few things. But not everything. 

Take away his watchtower and he would fold. 

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@Best.Korea
You two are Bible grandmasters.

Bible grandmasters? 

You mean bible grandcons. 🤣

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@IlDiavolo
You two are Bible grandmasters.

Bible grandmasters? 

You mean bible grandcons. 🤣
Ah I'll take that as a compliment. 

I'm not a master. Tis true. But that anyone "cares" is just amusing. 
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@Tradesecret
To be honest, I was refering to the other guy. 

And as for you, I dont think you're a con. I mean, what I can think of a guy who is pretty sure will go to heaven and sit right next to "God" for the eternity? Yeah, a lunatic. (or maybe a narcissist). 
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@IlDiavolo
To be honest, I was refering to the other guy. 

And as for you, I dont think you're a con. I mean, what I can think of a guy who is pretty sure will go to heaven and sit right next to "God" for the eternity? Yeah, a lunatic. (or maybe a narcissist). 
Well, there you go.  

I am pleased you don't think I'm a con. But perhaps I am. 

I don't know whether you wrote the next line about me.   

I am confident I will go to heaven.   I don't think I will sit next to God for eternity.  I'm just a pauper compared to most of the faithful.  Actually, I am confident that I won't be sitting anywhere close to God.  Although, this doesn't mean I won't be in heaven.  But mind you, I don't know the seating arrangements. And honestly, I think heaven is more than just sitting around. I imagine there's going to be a whole of things to be doing, work etc. It's not sitting on clouds playing harps. It's not one long church service. It's going to be a party up there. But there's going to be a whole to occupy our time. I don't know exactly, but I'm looking forward to finding out. 

I am reasonably sure I am not a lunatic.  And I don't fit the profile of a narcissist.  

Perhaps some think of me that way. I can't help their feelings.  People say lots of things. People quote things out of context. I don't care that I can't defend myself in some of those things. 

In any event, have a good day. 
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@IlDiavolo
 Tradesecret wrote @IlDiavolo.   I don't fit the profile of a narcissist.  

I don't care that I can't defend myself in some of those things. 

Indeed. It is as I have always said about the Reverend, the believability of  his lies and fantasies seems to be of no consequence even when called out, he doesn't care.
All that seems to count for him  is whether the tale helps him rebuild the facade of his imagined greatness while just struggling to be relevant.
Individuals such as the Reverend Tradesecret with narcissistic personality disorders often do not care who they manipulate or lie to or how much harm it may cause by lying.

And now, he finally admits to you and members here that he doesn't care if he can defend "himself" <<Victimhood. Notice also how he turned his inability to  defend his lies , preening and crowing about himself into him being  the victim, D? 



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@Stephen
Indeed. It is as I have always said about the Reverend, the believability of  his lies and fantasies seems to be of no consequence even when called out, he doesn't care.
All that seems to count for him  is whether the tale helps him rebuild the facade of his imagined greatness while just struggling to be relevant.
Individuals such as the Reverend Tradesecret with narcissistic personality disorders often do not care who they manipulate or lie to or how much harm it may cause by lying.
You've just described the typical trait of a narcissist. A narcissist is taken over by his ego and will never give in. He will make everything except giving in.

It took me several years of deep analysis to find out that some relatives are narcissists, one of them a christian zealot. You can't imagine how tough is to put up with these people, but I took it as a challenge and I'm finally getting over it.

And you're right when you say that narsissists don't care about their lies, this comment of him above shows him in his true light. You can tell me whether I'm wrong or not because I'm not a biblical expert, but I don't remember anyone in the bible saying to be pretty sure to have a place in heaven. As far as I know, there is only 144K reserved sits and this individual is pretty sure he will get there out of the 8,000 million people in the world (without considering the dead ones, haha).

Moreover, according to the bible only the righteous will get eternal life (Matheus 25, 46), so this individual is calling himself righteous. Not even Jesus was so arrogant because he said "no one is good - except God alone" (Mark 10, 18).
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@IlDiavolo
As far as I know, there is only 144K reserved sit and this individual is pretty sure he will get there out of the 8,000 million people in the world (without considering the dead ones, haha).

That is what is says. And ties in somewhat to what I wrote about above concerning houses /ages HERE >>#9
 12 houses 12 thousand from each of the 12 tribes of Israel = 144000. No mention of a "Christian" being a part of this selection. But this shouldn't surprise any reader of the bible. After all Jesus was a Jew. And there is no mention or evidence of Jesus himself  claiming to be king of the Christians.
 Again, it is as I have always maintained, this is what comes of Christians adopting a "god" from a time they don't understand, and culture they can never understand.
 
 

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@RaymondSheen
 "The phrase 'this generation' should cause no difficulty for interpreters. While admittedly genea in earlier Greek meant birth, progeny, and so race, . . . in the [Greek Septuagint] it most frequently translated the Hebrew term dor, meaning age.  


 Well at least I can agree with that part of your post.

"The second occurrence of "generations"—in the phrase "perfect in his generations"—is from the Hebrew word d ô r (Strong's #1755), which means "properly, a revolution of time, i.e., an age or generation."


It is  exactly as I have suggested  here>> #9:  speaking of a turn of the heavenly/ celestial clock from one "age" to the next "age " in line. In the time of Jesus it was a reference to a transition from one house (Ram) to the the Fish.

The Demand for a Sign
16 "The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven.
2 He replied, “When evening comes, you say, ‘It will be fair weather, for the sky is red,’ 3 and in the morning, ‘Today it will be stormy, for the sky is red and overcast.’ You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times".

Jesus was able to say this because he perfectly understood the "law" as set out, laid down and decreed AND agreed to  thousands of years before by the "gods"  in Mesopotamia.

As I said  above here>>#9 What most thicko Christians cannot grasp is that when Jesus speaks of "this generation" in his time, he is meaning all those born under the house that was occupying the heavens/sky in his time: the Ram.

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@Stephen
Jesus didn't operate on the principle of astrology which was forbidden. When was Jesus born? 
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@RaymondSheen
Jesus didn't operate on the principle of astrology which was forbidden. When was Jesus born? 

Then you know absolutely nothing. 

What did the magi / wise men tell  Herod?
What did the disciples ask Jesus about the "end times"? 
What was his reply?
What is meant by "end times"? 





When was Jesus born? 

 Well that will depend on which clues or pointers and in which gospel one chooses to believe. Do the gospel's even tell us directly when he was born?
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@Stephen
Then you know absolutely nothing. 
I know that a house divided falls and that if your Biblical analysis is dependent upon the use of astrology it falls. I also know that Christ Mythology is stupid. 

What did the magi / wise men tell  Herod?
Specifically? Apparently, the time of the star's appearance. 


What did the disciples ask Jesus about the "end times"? 
What was his reply?
Lots of things. Specifically? 

What is meant by "end times"? 
Specifically? Various things depending on the context. Ultimately, I would say, the time of the world beginning with the conception of Adam's first child and concluding with the destruction of Satan's world making room for Jehovah God's kingdom in which the meek will inherit the earth and live forever upon it. 

Well that will depend on which clues or pointers and in which gospel one chooses to believe.
All of them. And the prophecies which were known before then pointing to the time. 

Do the gospel's even tell us directly when he was born?
Yes. The fall of 2 BCE. 
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@RaymondSheen
Then you know absolutely nothing.
 I know that a house divided falls and that if your Biblical analysis is dependent upon the use of astrology it falls. I also know that Christ Mythology is stupid. 
The Christ mythology is stupid I agree. I have said many times on this forum , that I believe Jesus was a man that believed or was led to believe that he was rightful heir to the kingdom of Israel and that it was his time to rule and  that Christians have wrapped in a myth.

But I can tell you, even if we take the superstition of the time, if there is one thing that these ancient Priests and Kings knew about it was the workings of the "heavenly bodies" and the "laws" that they dictated,  it was THEIR CLOCK!. .... I also believe that these ancient celestial laws are still  being applied to day.

That is why  you piqued my interest when you wrote this on another thread> " the way things have turned out, which is exactly the way the Bible foretold". 


What did the magi / wise men tell  Herod?
Specifically?

Yes, Specifically what did they "specifically" tell Herod?
And what was Herod's reaction?




What did the disciples ask Jesus about the "end times"? 
What was his reply?
Specifically? 

Yes, specifically. 



What is meant by "end times"? 
Specifically? Various things depending on the context.
The context is made perfectly clear, the question posed to Jesus by his disciples  make it specifically clear what the context is.  And Jesus responds perfectly in context to what they asked. So again what is the meaning  of "end times"?


Ultimately, I would say, the time of the world beginning with the conception of Adam's first child and concluding with the destruction of Satan's world making room for Jehovah God's kingdom in which the meek will inherit the earth and live forever upon it. 

If that is what you believe then why didn't Jesus simply say so himself when he was asked about the end times.



When was Jesus born? 
Well that will depend on which clues or pointers and in which gospel one chooses to believe.
All of them.
There are only two possible pointers in just two of the gospels and even they show a discrepancy of about ten years. 


Do the gospel's even tell us directly when he [Jesus] was born?
Yes. The fall of 2 BCE. 

Can you expand on that  quoting the gospels? 

Your link Yes. is interesting........... and ironic,  titled, Revelation In Space. < my emphasis. Would that be the  heavenly celestial "space" above our heads and all the heavenly bodies therein or some other space that only you know about?