Capitalism sucks! Socialism (Government planned economy) is the best system!

Author: Best.Korea

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Lemming
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Suppose someone has an idea,
Whether it's to go fish in the sea or to build a light bulb.

I can imagine Socialism saying,
Well we don't have money, and don't allow money,
So you can't sell it even if you fish it/invent it.
You can fish or build light bulbs if you want, but then we'll have to appropriate them from you (No private property either)
And then the higher up socialists eat the fish and use the light bulbs,
While everyone else has to eat potatoes and use candles.

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@Lemming
How do you define Socialism?
Government planned economy. I think its the simplest definition for Socialism, even tho there are different views about what Socialism is, but in this case, I use government planned economy as a definition.
Lemming
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@Best.Korea
Not always bad, but can be bad.

Can stifle innovation, stifle individual daring risk.

Can lead to mass forcing the population, because they not 'matter as much as 'Collective.

Can lead to killing all the sparrows.
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@Mall
Capitalism sucks for those that suck at achieving to be a capitalist.
Yep.
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@Lemming
 “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.”
Which is kinda the problem.

Due to self interest, farmers are using herbicides and pesticides which are harmful, which end up in food we eat. Plastic waste is everywhere to the point that each of us has plastic particles in our body. The rivers are polluted due to waste. The air we breathe is less healthy than ever. Do you take issue with these, or do you just accept them as something which comes with capitalism?

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@Best.Korea
Our taking issue with them,
Is where Capitalism is 'ideally supposed to balance itself,
We 'are supposed to impose some regulations,
We are supposed to boycott certain businesses.

It is my view that you are presenting Capitalism as Unrestrained Capitalism.
Though I'm a bit fond of Laissez-faire myself, so long as the Laissez-faire takes into account my burning down the capitalists house if they go to far.


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@Lemming
It is my view that you are presenting Capitalism as Unrestrained Capitalism.
I am presenting what we had so far and what we have now.

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@Best.Korea
I believe that it's possible that you believe that.
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@Lemming
I believe that it's possible that you believe that
Well, are you saying we dont have pollution in the air, bad food, polluted rivers and mass waste being produced from maximizing output?
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@Best.Korea
Maximizing output is ideally supposed to be checked,
The baker in Capitalism isn't supposed to murder strangers who pass by, and cook them in a pie,
Even if such 'maximizes his profit.

Capitalism is often thought of as an economic system in which private actors own and control property in accord with their interests, and demand and supply freely set prices in markets in a way that can serve the best interests of society.
The essential feature of capitalism is the motive to make a profit. As Adam Smith, the 18th century philosopher and father of modern economics, said: “It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.”

Our taking issue with them,
Is where Capitalism is 'ideally supposed to balance itself,
We 'are supposed to impose some regulations,
We are supposed to boycott certain businesses.

It is my view that you are presenting Capitalism as Unrestrained Capitalism.
Though I'm a bit fond of Laissez-faire myself, so long as the Laissez-faire takes into account my burning down the capitalists house if they go to far.

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@Lemming
Capitalism sucks for those that suck at achieving to be a capitalist.
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@Best.Korea
Capitalism can help those who are bitter about capitalism teaching them to make something out of themselves, bettering themselves making them successful capitalists.
In turn returning the favor, paying it forward teaching others the same constructive business education, starting businesses, providing jobs, stimulating commerce, providing needs to the market, filling demand, etc. 
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@Lemming
Well, are you aware of mass waste being produced from maximizing output, polluted air, food and rivers which we have right now?
Lemming
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@Mall
It 'can suck, doesn't 'always suck.
People who don't want a degree of individual liberty can always choose a government 'without said liberty.

Meritocracy, cannot merit 'everyone,
Though it is true in various meritocracies they can become twisted, or cracked.

As much as I'm aware of Socialism stealing people's rights, acting inefficiently, stagnating societies, and sacrificing portions of the population.


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@Best.Korea
If each person ate 1 chocolate every day, they would be able to survive for 10 days. Thats planned economy.

Now lets apply capitalist market to this example.

Because capitalists are competing with each other to sell to customers, and some customers want 2 or 3 chocolates a day, it follows that chocolates are depleted much faster due to customer's and capitalist's greed.
The communist eventually runs out of chocolate.  The capitalist tries to make more chocolate so people can have as much chocolate as they want (with the profit motive as incentive to work hard enough to produce chocolate).
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@TheUnderdog
The capitalist tries to make more chocolate so people can have as much chocolate as they want (with the profit motive as incentive to work hard enough to produce chocolate).
The example of chocolate was representing resource, not product. You cannot "make" more fuel out of nothing, and when resources such as fuel are finite and you cannot make more of them, using more of them means you will run out of them faster.
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@Best.Korea
You cannot "make" more fuel out of nothing, and when resources such as fuel are finite and you cannot make more of them, using more of them means you will run out of them faster.
There is nuclear energy which the free market is developing.  But we got 80 years of gas left (so 80 years to get electric cars and nuclear energy); we will be fine.
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@Lemming
As much as I'm aware of Socialism stealing people's rights, acting inefficiently, stagnating societies, and sacrificing portions of the population
Same can be said about many countries which have free market or somewhat free market.
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@TheUnderdog
There is nuclear energy which the free market is developing.
Its mass use would be dangerous, since any accident means the area cant be used for decades. Plus, military, modern military, runs on oil, not nuclear energy.

  But we got 80 years of gas left (so 80 years to get electric cars and nuclear energy); we will be fine.
The oil will run out in 30 to 40 years, and the countries will have to fight over who gets last supplies.
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@Best.Korea
Its mass use would be dangerous, since any accident means the area cant be used for decades. 
Nuclear accidents are pretty much ancient history; they are regulated enough to where that's not plausible.

Plus, military, modern military, runs on oil, not nuclear energy.
I don't think that's true.  Aircraft carriers use nuclear energy.


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@TheUnderdog
I don't think that's true.  Aircraft carriers use nuclear energy
But airplanes and tanks and missiles and transport vehicles dont, nor they can.

Nuclear accidents are pretty much ancient history; they are regulated enough to where that's not plausible
It happened in Japan few decades ago. Any time where there is an earthquake, a flood or hurricane, you risk disaster. But nuclear energy isnt infinite either, and isnt suitable for military.
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@Best.Korea
But airplanes and tanks and missiles and transport vehicles dont, nor they can.
They can be electric, which would in turn be nuclear powered if every vehicle is electric.

It happened in Japan few decades ago. Any time where there is an earthquake, a flood or hurricane, you risk disaster. 
This is not Japan; this is America.  You can't grow oranges in Alaska due to the environment, but Alaskans can still get oranges from trade.

But nuclear energy isnt infinite either
The supply of nuclear energy materials is millions of years from what I read.  It's as good as forever.
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@TheUnderdog
They can be electric, which would in turn be nuclear powered if every vehicle is electric
They cant be electric either. There is no way to make use of a tank which has to charge for 10 hours so that it can drive 2 hours, and even breaks down often. In a military sense, electric tank is nonsense, as well as electric fighter jet.

This is not Japan; this is America.
Nuclear disasters can happen anywhere. They just dont happen as often because nuclear energy isnt used as often. In fact, nuclear energy right now is in insignificant amount in electricity production.

The supply of nuclear energy materials is millions of years from what I read.  It's as good as forever.
Some sources say 200 years under current consumption. However, if we switched to only nuclear energy, that would become much shorter due to huge increase in consumption.
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@Best.Korea
There is no way to make use of a tank which has to charge for 10 hours so that it can drive 2 hours
Future technology might disagree with this.

In fact, nuclear energy right now is in insignificant amount in electricity production.
Nuclear energy makes up 20% of the US energy supply.

I don't know what your alternative is to expanding nuclear energy.

Some sources say 200 years under current consumption. 
Chat GPT is giving me tens of thousands of years.
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@Lemming
How would you win over socialists to adopt a capitalist mindset?
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@TheUnderdog
Future technology might disagree with this
It wont tho.

Tank uses 100 times more fuel than a car, and jet plane uses even more during flight.

The batteries needed to power them would take days to charge, and would have to be much larger than the ones currently used in cars. Their range would be much shorter than the ones which run on fuel. So a military electric plane would fly for few hours and then charge for 2 days, which is about as bad as it gets, even if it was possible to make with small enough battery.

I don't know what your alternative is to expanding nuclear energy.
This isnt really about nuclear energy, but about capitalism racing to deplete resources. Due to this race, fuel will run out by 2050 or 2060. Then the world will change completely, especially in military sense. All today's militaries rely on fuel to power aircraft, tank and transport. Basically, the country which saves up most fuel will have huge advantage over any other country in terms of military once fuel runs out. So essentially, governments which use planned economy will save fuel while those relying on capitalism will waste fuel until they run out of it. And fuel is the best possible energy for military planes and tanks and transports. The other sources are far worse.

Chat GPT is giving me tens of thousands of years.
Current supplies of useful uranium will run out in 200 years under current consumption, but if everyone switched to nuclear, they would run out in 20 to 40 years. Now, there are some theories about converting useless type of uranium to useful, but those are just theories. Most theories which sound too good to be true usually are false.
Lemming
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@Mall
I think a blending of socialism and capitalism is already fairly common.
. . .

Let's say there is a tribe of hunter gatherers, the tribe is periodically forced to hunt elks and pick corn,
One guy thinks fish might be tasty,
But the tribe does not want to direct it's periodic efforts to fish, as they don't know how they would do it,
But they tell the guy if he wants to fish in his free time, that's fine.
Guy fishes, gets extra fish,
Sells it in exchange of services, such as someone mending a blanket or something.

What's wrong with that?

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@Best.Korea
Tank uses 100 times more fuel than a car, and jet plane uses even more during flight.
If you need to strap hundreds of nuclear powered batteries to an engine, then so be it.

The batteries needed to power them would take days to charge, and would have to be much larger than the ones currently used in cars. Their range would be much shorter than the ones which run on fuel. So a military electric plane would fly for few hours and then charge for 2 days
Maybe there can be several electric sockets to charge the plane faster.

It's better to not have war/militaries to begin with.

Current supplies of useful uranium will run out in 200 years under current consumption, but if everyone switched to nuclear, they would run out in 20 to 40 years. Now, there are some theories about converting useless type of uranium to useful, but those are just theories. Most theories which sound too good to be true usually are false.
Where is your source for this information?  Mine is Chat GPT.  Here is GPT's response:

If nuclear power were used to meet 100% of the world's energy needs, the available supply would depend on several factors, including the quantity of uranium and thorium resources, technological advancements, and the efficiency of nuclear power plants.
Uranium and Thorium Resources
  1. Uranium: Current estimates indicate that there are about 6.1 million tonnes of identified recoverable uranium resources. Additionally, unconventional resources, such as uranium in seawater, could increase the supply significantly. Techniques to extract uranium from seawater are being developed, which could provide a virtually unlimited supply of uranium. According to the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), these resources could sustain nuclear power for centuries at current consumption rates (‘A Turning Point’: First Ever Nuclear Energy Summit Concludes in Brussels | IAEA) (Nuclear Energy - Our World in Data).
  2. Thorium: Thorium is another potential nuclear fuel with greater abundance than uranium. Estimates suggest that there are about 6.2 million tonnes of thorium resources globally. Thorium reactors are still in the experimental stage, but they promise to be a significant future energy source due to thorium’s abundance and potential efficiency (In focus: EU nuclear energy policy – why it matters to us all - European Commission (europa.eu)).
Technological Advancements
Advancements in nuclear technology, such as breeder reactors and small modular reactors (SMRs), can greatly extend the supply of nuclear fuel:
Energy Demand and Supply Calculations
To estimate the potential supply of nuclear power, let’s consider the following:
  • Global Energy Consumption: The world consumed about 173,000 terawatt-hours (TWh) of energy in 2019 (Nuclear - IEA).
  • Nuclear Energy Efficiency: Modern nuclear reactors are quite efficient. Assuming an average efficiency of 33% for thermal reactors, converting thermal energy to electrical energy means more uranium or thorium would be required to meet global energy needs.
Using these assumptions, let's perform a simplified calculation:
  1. Annual Uranium Needs: To meet the global energy demand of 173,000 TWh using current nuclear technology, approximately 7,000 tonnes of uranium per year would be required (based on current consumption rates).
  2. Resource Lifespan: With 6.1 million tonnes of uranium, the supply could theoretically last around 871 years (6.1 million tonnes / 7,000 tonnes per year) if used in current reactors. With breeder reactors, this lifespan could be extended by several factors, potentially reaching tens of thousands of years (‘A Turning Point’: First Ever Nuclear Energy Summit Concludes in Brussels | IAEA) (Nuclear Power in a Clean Energy System – Analysis - IEA).
Conclusion
If nuclear power were to supply 100% of the world's energy needs, current uranium resources could last for several centuries with existing technology and for many thousands of years with breeder and thorium reactor technologies. This makes nuclear power a highly viable long-term energy source, provided that technological advancements continue and safety and waste management concerns are addressed.

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@Best.Korea
Where you stand on an issue depends on where you sit.

Capitalism may suck for you, it worked out well for me.


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@TheUnderdog
If you need to strap hundreds of nuclear powered batteries to an engine, then so be it.
In terms of military power, its a great disadvantage.

It's better to not have war/militaries to begin with
I agree, but thats not really an option. Its not like all countries would ever agree to abolish their militaries.

Where is your source for this information?  
"With the world’s current uranium resources expected to be depleted by the end of the century, the search for new sources of uranium has become more urgent."