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@3RU7AL
If you're talking about Bible gods what are some of them? Moses, Satan, judges, Tammuz, Dagon, Molech, Baal, Ashtoreth, Jehovah, Jesus, Pharoah, sticks, stones, etc.
Atheism
Posts
Total:
302
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@RaymondSheen
atheists lack belief in god (OR) gods
this means EITHER but not necessarily BOTH
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@RaymondSheen
If I say God to you, do you think Allah or Jehovah? Sky magician or venerated? Old man with beard or phallic symbol? God or Goddess? Tammuz or Moses? Satan or Baal? God or Lord? Landlord or Godmother? Fairy or troll?
you're joking
i know for certain you're joking this time
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@RaymondSheen
If you're talking about Bible gods what are some of them? Moses, Satan, judges, Tammuz, Dagon, Molech, Baal, Ashtoreth, Jehovah, Jesus, Pharoah, sticks, stones, etc.
dealer's choice
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@3RU7AL
do you understand that NOT all religions are theistic religions
That was the point I was making, but look at the defintion of religion I gave and the definition of god I've given in Post # 147 for example. Repeatedly throughout this thread.
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@RaymondSheen
That was the point I was making, but look at the defintion of religion I gave and the definition of god I've given in Post # 147 for example. Repeatedly throughout this thread.
POST # 147If I say God to you, do you think Allah or Jehovah? Sky magician or venerated? Old man with beard or phallic symbol? God or Goddess? Tammuz or Moses? Satan or Baal? God or Lord? Landlord or Godmother? Fairy or troll?So, a lord is someone with authority. Usually but not allways granted by another. A god is something or someone who in some way possesses a might that is greater than the one attributing it. A fertility god or goddess, for example, is entrusted with bringing about a bountiful crop and children. The god of luck delivers good or protects against bad luck.In Western society we are conditioned to believe God is the only god and that all other references are modeled after Him, which doesn't make a great deal of sense but like racism in cultures it is a very powerful - uh, whatsit? Uh . . . conditioning, I suppose.That's why I think it's so funny when atheists think God has no power over them. Look around you, your civilizations, laws etc. were modeled after them or some nonsensical variation of it anyway.
THIS DOES NOT CONTAIN A DEFINITION
it is a frail argument about how "ideas about god(s)" have shaped history
like the fact that wednesday is named after the god ODIN means somehow that we all worship ODIN or something completely OFF-TOPIC
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@RaymondSheen
Laveyan Satanists whom are atheists have beliefs; religious beliefs.
I believe atheism is a religion according to the supreme court.
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@3RU7AL
I'll put it this way.
Atheists believe no gods exists.
Is that statement true or false?
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@Mall
are you a THEIST ???
if you are NOT a THEIST
THEN YOU ARE AN ATHEIST
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@3RU7AL
Why can't you just say true or false?
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@3RU7AL
You have the patience of Job.
Job is a character from the Bible.
Ergo I must believe in Jehovah![\sarcasm]
Patience is a noble and admirable trait, but I have learned firsthand that it can become generous to a fault.
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@3RU7AL
Hold on. I have a simple forum rule. When a thread becomes a pissing contest I'm out. You and I are having a pissing contest. We're ideologues having a battle with only shields. Chasing our tails in circles. You and I have already agreed on the primary tenent of the OP. That happened at least (if not earlier) than your big bang analogy, namely that an atheist can accept the big bang as a god. Where we go off track, I think, because I'm not entirely sure, is the definition of what it means to be a god.
You say: "a theistic god is a deity believed in by followers of a religion who is involved in the world and interacts with humans"
I say: "a god/deity is an adored, admired, or influential person"
So, now we have to determine what a religion is. I'm irreligious in the same sense that I'm apolitical. I have nothing to do with any organized religion or politics. Though I personally define religion, in line with the dictionary (survey) as "a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance." Thus, my comparison to religion and god.
God: a god/deity is an adored, admired, or influential person.
Religion: a pursuit or interest to which someone ascribes supreme importance.
In that sense everyone is religious and everyone has gods. Religion is an expression of what a person ascribes supreme importance to. For some it may be political, with political leaders, for others it may be "religious" with religious leaders. The supreme religious leader would be, for example, Buddha, Confucius, Jehovah, Satan, Allah. The political Biden or Charles. The result is the same. It doesn't matter if the importance is true, false, literal, imaginary, extant etc.
Then, according to your definition of a theistic god above, having to do with a deity who is involved in the world and interacts with humans we have to consider how that is done. Through textual interpretation (Bible, Quran, Bhagavad-Gita, Analects, etc.) the follower allegedly makes an intellectual decision to live their life according to their interpretation of the sacred or quasi-sacred texts. I called them the source.
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@3RU7AL
it is a frail argument about how "ideas about god(s)" have shaped historylike the fact that wednesday is named after the god ODIN means somehow that we all worship ODIN or something completely OFF-TOPIC
I didn't mean to imply that. Religion and gods are all around you, they have influenced every single aspect of your life.
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@cristo71
I'll ask you now.
Scripture says let But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay.
Do atheists believe no gods exists?
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@Mall
Why can't you just say true or false?
it's a misleading question
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@RaymondSheen
I didn't mean to imply that. Religion and gods are all around you, they have influenced every single aspect of your life.
there are thousands of fairy tales that have influenced human culture
i'm not sure why you seem to think this one very specific category of fairy tales is somehow more "significant" than any of the rest of them
also,
if you grew up virtually drowning in atheists
and they've heard this argument of yours that "virtually anything can be considered a god"
are they no longer atheists ?
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@RaymondSheen
In that sense everyone is religious and everyone has gods.
that doesn't sound like a particularly useful delineation
perhaps it would be just as useful to replace the word "religion" with the word "anyone"
and perhaps it would be just as useful to replace the word "god" with the word "anything"
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@Mall
are you a THEIST ???
if you are NOT a THEIST
THEN YOU ARE AN ATHEIST
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@Mall
Your question is absurd. Do atheists believe no gods exist? Yes, some believe no gods exists which is positive or gnostic atheism and some (mostly all) atheist are simply not convinced by the theistic concepts presented to them so far. Your question should be “Does atheism say no gods exist”. The answer to that is no. Atheism does not make any positive claims by itself and does not deny the possibility of the existence of god or gods. It simply means this person is “not convinced by the evidence for God and withholds believe at this moment”. Some atheists can have stronger opinions and claim that not only they dont believe but they KNOW god doesn’t exist which is bs but anyway. The definition of atheism is very simple and if you are not convinced theres a god you are an atheist. Literally anything else that you can add to this will be not about atheism.
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@3RU7AL
that doesn't sound like a particularly useful delineationperhaps it would be just as useful to replace the word "religion" with the word "anyone"and perhaps it would be just as useful to replace the word "god" with the word "anything"
Everyone except dogs, newborns and elephants? You don't see atheism as a worldview? C'mon.
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@3RU7AL
if you grew up virtually drowning in atheistsand they've heard this argument of yours that "virtually anything can be considered a god"are they no longer atheists ?
It's annoying, and sad, and funny until I step back and look at it - even though I've seen it a thousand times. I've told you that I could educate you, and I have. I've told you you wouldn't accept it because you can't. If you accept it that means you accept everything you've been conditioned and conditioned yourself against. And I've told you none of it would matter. Two more points, actually only confirming these.
1. The gods of people, historically, have often been destructive. Bad. Interacting in the follower's lives destructively.
2. Theism is your god. Not atheism. Theism.
If the kingdom in which you live made mandatory an act of worship to Nanofofho or whatever to preserve your life an atheist would do it but a theist wouldn't.
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@baggins
Atheism does not make any positive claims by itself and does not deny the possibility of the existence of god or gods.
well stated
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@RaymondSheen
that doesn't sound like a particularly useful delineationperhaps it would be just as useful to replace the word "religion" with the word "anyone"and perhaps it would be just as useful to replace the word "god" with the word "anything"Everyone except dogs, newborns and elephants? You don't see atheism as a worldview? C'mon.
i'm not adopting your broadest of all possible definitions of "religion" and "god(s)"
i'm simply pointing out how useless these broad definitions are and how they don't help identifying the topic at hand
and,
obviously atheism is NOT "a worldview" since it makes absolutely no claims about "the world"
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@RaymondSheen
It's annoying, and sad, and funny until I step back and look at it - even though I've seen it a thousand times. I've told you that I could educate you, and I have. I've told you you wouldn't accept it because you can't. If you accept it that means you accept everything you've been conditioned and conditioned yourself against. And I've told you none of it would matter.
It's annoying, and sad, and funny until I step back and look at it - even though I've seen it a thousand times. I've told you that I could educate you, and I have. I've told you you wouldn't accept it because you can't. If you accept it that means you accept everything you've been conditioned and conditioned yourself against. And I've told you none of it would matter.
double-edged-sword
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@RaymondSheen
If the kingdom in which you live made mandatory an act of worship to Nanofofho or whatever to preserve your life an atheist would do it but a theist wouldn't.
not everyone who calls themself a theist has the heart of a martyr
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@baggins
You say the question is absurd but yet you were able to answer it simply with a yes .
You could of stopped at yes , nice and simple. To pile on after that you might as well call that absurd and ridiculous.
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@3RU7AL
How's it misleading?
Someone else was able to answer without any fear saying yes, atheists believe in no gods.
That statement is either true or false. It's not a "gotcha" question or a trap. Nothing hidden in there.
If we're being honest, it's just a honest answer to the question.
It's either true that they believe in gods or it's false. If it's false, you're saying they don't believe no gods exists which is false according to atheism.
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@Mall
Strong atheism posits that gods do not exist. Weak atheism merely lacks belief in them. I hope this answers your question!
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@cristo71
So is this a "yes" which would be one of only two answers to the question I asked?
If it's not , it's only a "no". Do atheists believe no gods exist?
Yes or no.
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@Mall
How's it misleading?
it's obviously misleading because the terms are undefined
for example, theists have argued repeatedly IN THIS CONVERSATION that "money is a god" "michael phelps is a god" "sex is a god" ad nauseam
Someone else was able to answer without any fear saying yes, atheists believe in no gods.
clearly, SOME atheists use that description and in many cases it is "close enough" generally but it is not the essential definition of atheism
That statement is either true or false. It's not a "gotcha" question or a trap. Nothing hidden in there.
there are very few statements that have actual "truth value" and the example at hand is simply ambiguous
If we're being honest, it's just a honest answer to the question.
clearly in this context the speaker knows what they're doing
It's either true that they believe in gods or it's false. If it's false, you're saying they don't believe no gods exists which is false according to atheism.
oh, "according to atheism" you say ?
have you perhaps read the ancient holy atheists scriptures yourself ?
ATHEISM = NOT A THEIST
this is the essential definition