Invincible Mafia Day Phase 1

Author: Lunatic

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#601
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@AustinL0926
Speaking as someone who has not yet been convinced to lynch you, there is a benefit to your being lynched: you're a confirmed town vote in the next DP. I've got my issues with using that as a basis for our decision, since it's only a small gain compared to the potential loss, but I can see the point that some people on your wagon are making.
#602
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@AustinL0926
Please do not vote yet, we still have 5 hours.
I'm going to be at a meeting for 1-2hrs. Even if I wanted to, I wouldn't be able too
#603
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@JoeBob
Genuinely think about this for a moment. Am I your preferred lynch choice because my lynch would be the least harmful, or because I'm the most likely to be scum? If I get lynched, you're going to need to be accountable to your future self. Do you think your future self will be happy with the decision that you made here?
#604
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@ILikePie5
See here’s the thing. He pulled the same bullshit in Mharman’s game I think where me and GP were scum. He’s a troll. It’s hard to judge him for his behavior. But the way he’s playing aligns perfectly with the play in that game.
That's part of the reason I'm not fully trusting my read on him. That being said, the fact that he's a troll doesn't mean he's town in this game. He'll troll whether he's town or scum based on what I've seen.

#605
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@whiteflame
Again, I'm not that opposed to being lynched to narrow POE. In fact, if we get to less than 30 minutes left in the DP without a hammer, then I'll do it myself. I think I've helped provoke enough discussion that scum is going to be held to their statements in later DPs, to their detriment.

That being said, I dislike the idea that I'm being lynched because me being lynched as a townie wouldn't be that bad. If someone is going to lynch me, I want them to look me in the eye and tell me that they see me as scum. Lynching me as a "not-so-bad" mislynch is a cop-out.
#606
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Oh yeah, and in case it's not already clear, I view Pie as 100% scum based on how he's been pushing me in an unnatural way.
#607
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Dashboard             Role                           Character
Joebob (town)       Innocent Child       Kid Omni-Man         
Greyparrot               Probe                         Dupli-Kate
Whiteflame              ???                             Softclaim (protagonist… I can’t find the post)
ILikePie5.                  commuter              Invincible
savant.                      Easily confirmable
Barney.                      Confirmable              Soft claim 
AustinL0926.              Bleeder.                   Abraham Lincoln
best.korea.                Doctor.                     PPG/Atom-Eve           
Vader.                           ???                             ???


From the above list I should want to push Vader, but last game as scum it was really annoying having an unknown variable; and there’s a 71.4 chance he’s town,  plus he’s playing well.

I dislike that anyone is using the logic main character = town. Last game I was Percy Jackson, and I was scum.
that said, regarding Pie: Invincible is mainly defined by his speed (well, that and getting his ass kicked a lot), so the claim seems solid.

GP’s claim had some obvious flaws considering my powers, but we’ve learned the hard way that similar powers don’t equal contradiction.

Savant I dislike some of his behavior, but he says his role will be confirmed (not the same as alignment, but it helps), and we have time to wait.

WF is leading town. If he’s scum we’ve already lost.

Austin is an odd one to be sure. He’s rather be lynched than me be lynched, which since I know I’m town favors town; but pushing so hard on BK…

BK…says his behavior is all a tactic to not get night killed even while claiming doctor, but it’s still utter shit.
He’s even arguing we shouldn’t think at all and just murder someone quickly before they can respond (complete bastard move; people should have a chance to defend themselves per the spirit of the game).
#608
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@whiteflame
That's part of the reason I'm not fully trusting my read on him. That being said, the fact that he's a troll doesn't mean he's town in this game. He'll troll whether he's town or scum based on what I've seen.
That’s also true. Either way, it’s better to allow him to potentially prove himself. Austin cannot prove himself. He’s acted scummy af with my wagon and his cherry-picked evidence. He as scum stands a lot to gain with me being eliminated in the game. I’m confident he’s scum. But the chance I’m wrong, he retains his vote tomorrow and his guidance is valuable along with Joe’s
#609
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Forgot to say: when I’m on a real computer later, I’ll try to catalog the wagons and how quickly different people were hopping on.
#610
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@Barney
BK…says his behavior is all a tactic to not get night killed even while claiming doctor, but it’s still utter shit.
He’s even arguing we shouldn’t think at all and just murder someone quickly before they can respond (complete bastard move; people should have a chance to defend themselves per the spirit of the game).

This sticks out like a sore thumb to me with BK's behavior. I've been saying that his behavior and trolling hasn't been the usual norm of trolling that he usually does. I'm honestly fine with lynching either him or Austin at this point consider what I totally overlooked with Oliver Grayson being inno child and that relating to my theory
#611
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Also quick note in about 30min-ish I will be heading over to a meeting that should take about an hour, 1hr 1/2 so I probs won't be active during that time 
#612
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@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
@JoeBob
Oh yeah, and in case it's not already clear, I view Pie as 100% scum based on how he's been pushing me in an unnatural way.
What’s unnatural about it? I pushed Barney so that he wouldn’t lay back as he did when he was scum. You find that scummy af and lead a 10 minute wagon on me to force me to claim. I claim a main character and Commuter. Then you say my role makes no sense because Lunatic doesn’t make main characters town or whatever and you cite 3 games in your support. I go back in and do my own research and point out other Lunatic games that show he made main characters town, which amounts to Austin cherry-picking. Even then, he still goes after me saying I “misconstrued” his argument. When I lead a counter wagon on him, he screams foul for the exact same reason that I said: a quick wagon.  He hesitates to claim for an eternity, and then finally claims upon pressure. This not even considering that he switched onto Barney in the middle and then Best Korea as well. It screams character and role phishing to me. He even admitted that he’s changing up his method of playing at the beginning of the game, so it’s clear he’s aware of his own behavior.
#613
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@AustinL0926
Again, I'm not that opposed to being lynched to narrow POE. In fact, if we get to less than 30 minutes left in the DP without a hammer, then I'll do it myself. I think I've helped provoke enough discussion that scum is going to be held to their statements in later DPs, to their detriment.

That being said, I dislike the idea that I'm being lynched because me being lynched as a townie wouldn't be that bad. If someone is going to lynch me, I want them to look me in the eye and tell me that they see me as scum. Lynching me as a "not-so-bad" mislynch is a cop-out.
I agree with this. Right now, I wouldn't say I see you as scum, so I couldn't tell you that. I seem to be an outlier in that department.

That being said (and speaking as someone who scumreads BK), I don't think you're going to get a lynch on BK this DP. Lynching the claimed Doc is extremely unlikely to happen. I don't think you're going to get a lynch on Pie, either, much as I do agree with what's been said so far about how we should regard his being the MC. The way I see it is this: we have two claimed protective roles (a self-protective Commuter and a generally protective Doc), plus your Bleeder, which is pretty distinct. I would be shocked if Luna designed this game with only the Bleeder as a pseudo-protective role, so I have trouble believing BK and Pie are a scum team unless there's another protective role in the game we're unaware of currently. Maybe that's me getting too much into mod-psych, but my inclination is to believe that one of them is town, and at least for now, I'm thinking that's Pie.

So, unless you can paint me a convincing picture that these two are on a scum team together, it makes the most sense to pursue a lynch against someone else and come back to them in a future DP. Do you have an alternative pick?
#614
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@AustinL0926
we should kill pie or vader. That's my 2 cents.
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#615
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Official Vote Count:

Austin- 4/5- iLikePie5, savant, Best.korea, joebob
iLikePie5- 1/5-  Austin
Vader- 1/5- GP

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#616
Lunatic
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4 hours remaining
#617
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@Greyparrot
@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
What are your reads on Austin? 
#618
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@ILikePie5
I just can't square his behavior with him being scum. I'm willing to pull the trigger to narrow PoE if we have no better option, but that's where I stand.
#619
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@whiteflame
I just can't square his behavior with him being scum. I'm willing to pull the trigger to narrow PoE if we have no better option, but that's where I stand.
He said himself he’s trying to change the way he plays. He’s conscious of his behavior and trying fully hard to still get rid of me for faulty reasons. Even if you look at his behavior, it’s not town Austin to pursue someone for faulty logic and evidence.
#620
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@ILikePie5
He said himself he’s trying to change the way he plays. He’s conscious of his behavior and trying fully hard to still get rid of me for faulty reasons. Even if you look at his behavior, it’s not town Austin to pursue someone for faulty logic and evidence.
I agree that it doesn't match his previous behavior. I disagree that that indicates he is scum, particularly given how he's chosen to spend his time, though I've already covered why I think that when I gave my reads earlier. Like I said, I'm fine with doing this to narrow PoE and even better if he ends up flipping scum, I just don't buy it.

#621
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@whiteflame
I agree that it doesn't match his previous behavior. I disagree that that indicates he is scum, particularly given how he's chosen to spend his time, though I've already covered why I think that when I gave my reads earlier. Like I said, I'm fine with doing this to narrow PoE and even better if he ends up flipping scum, I just don't buy it.
Okay, so who would be your preferred lynch at the moment?
#622
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@ILikePie5
Right now? Barney.
#623
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@whiteflame
I'm not letting Barney get lynched today.
#624
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@whiteflame
I'm not letting Barney get lynched today.
#625
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Oh okay
#626
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@AustinL0926
I'm not letting Barney get lynched today.
Alright, then please respond to my earlier request. I don't think you're going to be able to rally people around the picks you already have, so who would you choose that could get the votes?

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#627
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3 hours remain 
#628
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@ILikePie5
What’s unnatural about it? I pushed Barney so that he wouldn’t lay back as he did when he was scum. You find that scummy af and lead a 10 minute wagon on me to force me to claim. I claim a main character and Commuter. Then you say my role makes no sense because Lunatic doesn’t make main characters town or whatever and you cite 3 games in your support. I go back in and do my own research and point out other Lunatic games that show he made main characters town, which amounts to Austin cherry-picking. Even then, he still goes after me saying I “misconstrued” his argument. When I lead a counter wagon on him, he screams foul for the exact same reason that I said: a quick wagon.  He hesitates to claim for an eternity, and then finally claims upon pressure. This not even considering that he switched onto Barney in the middle and then Best Korea as well. It screams character and role phishing to me. He even admitted that he’s changing up his method of playing at the beginning of the game, so it’s clear he’s aware of his own behavior.
Sigh... let's break this down.

First, wagon speed means nothing unless you want to admit to being scum for leading a 6 minute wagon on me. It's more about who's online and who's more free with their vote rather than a coordinated effort by scum.

Second, I gave evidence for why claiming the MC doesn't clear you. You blatantly misconstrued this as being the sole reason I wanted to lynch you, which is disingenous at best.

Third, I hesitated to claim because my role loses utility when claimed. Yours doesn't - in fact, according to my research, commuter can't even be roleblocked. In contrast, my role which becomes very strong in MYLO and pre-MYLO situations is now functionally useless.

I also didn't switch onto Barney and BK, I briefly scumread Barney and dropped him afterward, while merely pointing out some scummy aspects of BK's behavior. If you believe it's not possible to focus on more than one person at a time, idk what even to say.

And yes, I am switching up my town play because I've noticed from my past games that it's not working. That doesn't mean I can't point out my own meta, or logically argue why my behavior so far would be horrific play as scum if I was so.


#629
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@whiteflame
The only people potentially in my scumpile are Savant, BK, and Pie. Savant mentioned his role is easily confirmable, so I'll drop him for now.

Although Pie is my top lynch, I understand we're not going to get a consensus on him. As such, I'd prefer to lynch BK on behavioral grounds. Yes, he has a relatively good claim, but that could easily be a result of having a competent scumpartner.
#630
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BK's play has been far out of his meta. As I mentioned earlier, he gets defensive and upset when he gets pressured as town. This game, he's acting like a maniac with nothing to lose - hopping between wagons, acting unusually eager for a lynch, and not really engaging with the rest of town.