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@Ball-425
Is this written in biblical scripture somewhere?
Otherwise what is meant by "classical identity"?
The Trinity Problem
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@Mall
No when I say classical identity I am referring to a model of identity
A=A
A person has some sort of set of characteristics that distinctly set them apart
A=A
A person has some sort of set of characteristics that distinctly set them apart
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@Mall
Apologies.
I should have referenced your reply to YouFound_Lxam. (#22)
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@Ball-425
Well who or what identity in terms of "there are three that bear record"?
This has been the question, nobody has been able to be specific such as to the nature of the subject.
In scripture it says he likewise took part of the same(flesh and blood).
For he took not on the nature of angels. What nature is it of the three?
Everybody for the most part has been vague in this area.
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@zedvictor4
You can quote what I say and ask your question so I don't have to scroll up and down all around, much appreciated.
In short, the answer is yes. As always it comes down to what we mean using any term.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Lest we forget as well, Jesus became His own Father and a bastard child (manzar) through true Hebrew tradition because Joseph was NOT His paternal father!
the Hebrew word you are looking for is "mamzer"
Joseph's not being the father (suggesting Mary's infidelity) does not automatically mean the child is a mamzer. If she had relations with a non-Jew, the resulting child is not a mamzer.
296 days later
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@rosends
Lest we forget as well, Jesus became His own Father and a bastard child (manzar) through true Hebrew tradition because Joseph was NOT His paternal father!the Hebrew word you are looking for is "mamzer"Joseph's not being the father (suggesting Mary's infidelity) does not automatically mean the child is a mamzer. If she had relations with a non-Jew, the resulting child is not a mamzer.
So the Jews don’t believe Jesus was a Mamzer by their definition. Wouldn’t that bring Jesus one step closer to God?
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@Shila
The fact that his legal status is not as a technical mamzer is unrelated to other discussions.
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@rosends
The fact that his legal status is not as a technical mamzer is unrelated to other discussions.
The Jews were limited by their inability to see God in multiple forms could not see the Trinity as God’s approach to conceptualize himself as fire, water and spirit or the trinity of God as Father, son and Holy Spirit.
Yeah, the Jews were totally limited by their inability to accept a theological innovation that had no basis in the Torah. Sooo limited.
The Trinity is basically Christian fanfic that got canonized and we're over here like "WHY won't the Jews accept my fanfic??"
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@Shila
What an adorable opinion.
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@rosends
What an adorable opinion.
Thank you, it has endeared God to 2 billion Christians. Whereas the Jews have not defined their God belong “I am”.
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@Shila
Belong "I am"?
What does that mean (and FYI, 'I am" is not a Jewish concept.
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@rosends
Belong "I am"?What does that mean (and FYI, 'I am" is not a Jewish concept.
Sorry typo. It should have read, “Thank you, it has endeared God to 2 billion Christians. Whereas the Jews have not defined their God beyond “I am”.
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@Shila
But, I am is not part of Judaism.
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@rosends
But, I am is not part of Judaism.
Exodus is a part of Judaism.
It is connected to the passage in Exodus 3:14 in which God gives his name as אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה, Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh, translated most basically as "I am that I am" or "I shall be what I am". In the Hebrew Bible (Exodus 3:14), it is the personal name of God, revealed directly to Moses.
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@rosends
But, I am is not part of Judaism.
Will Jews be saved if they don't believe in Jesus?
Does being Jewish by itself automatically grant a Jew salvation? Only by placing faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ may any human being receive God's forgiveness. This is true for Gentiles and Jews, so even a Jew must possess faith in Jesus to receive eternal life.
What does the Bible say about Israel rejecting Jesus?
Second, the rejection of the Messiah by a large portion of Israel had been prophesied in the Old Testament (Rom. 9:19-29). This meant that Jewish unbelief should not have been unexpected. Paul quotes from Isaiah 10:22-23 and 1:9 to show that only a remnant of the nation would be saved.
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@Shila
Hebrew bad no present tense to be so the translation is "I will be what I shall be" and it is not a personal name.
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@Shila
Jews don't have a notion of having to be saved. And since Jesus has no part in Judaism the Bible doesn't mention Jesus. By the way, Romans 11 says "all Israel shall be saved" so claiming that only a remnant is involved.
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@rosends
Hebrew bad no present tense to be so the translation is "I will be what I shall be" and it is not a personal name.
If the Jews accept God can be whatever he wants to be. Why do they reject the Trinity of God?
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@Shila
Because God is not human. God is not divisible. The trinity is alen to Judaism. Why was there need to invent it (and the binity heresy before it)?
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@rosends
Because God is not human. God is not divisible. The trinity is alen to Judaism. Why was there need to invent it (and the binity heresy before it)?
You are contradicting yourself. You just posted:
the translation is "I will be what I shall be"
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@Shila
No contradiction there.
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@rosends
No contradiction there.
If God can be whatever he wants.
the translation is "I will be what I shall be"
Why can’t the Jews accept the Trinity of God?
Just like they reduced God’s covenant to circumcision to limit God’s choices.
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@Shila
If God can be whatever he wants, why can't he be Allah and his prophet be Muhammad? Because that concept has no basis in your holy texts or your faith traditions, pickles.
Just like they reduced God’s covenant to circumcision to limit God’s choices.
And idk what this even means.
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@Castin
Just like they reduced God’s covenant to circumcision to limit God’s choices.And idk what this even means.
It simply mean when God wanted to make a covenant with the Jews, the Jews limited his choice to their penis.
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@Shila
Why can’t the Jews accept the Trinity of God?
Because it is counter logical. If you think that God's omnipotence means he can change like this, then why was there a heresy charge against binity? Why wouldn't you accept a quadrinity? Because God is what God is, not something else.
Just like they reduced God’s covenant to circumcision to limit God’s choices.
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@Shila
, the Jews limited his choice to their penis.
I think you have the relationship backwards.
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@rosends
I think you have the relationship backwards.
The Bible tells us God was only willing to show his backside to the Jews and not his face. That explains the covenant of circumcision, why the Jews offered their penis and why God responded the way he did.
Exodus 33:23 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”