Instigator / Con

McMieky

1500

rating

debates

45.83%

won

Topic

#5948

Abortion should be banned.

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 2 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...

vi_777

Tags

Abortion

Parameters

Publication date: 02.12.2025 03:42PM
Last updated date: 02.27.2025 03:52PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Pro

vi_777

1500

rating

debates

66.67%

won

Description

No information

Round 1

McMieky

02.13.2025 06:26AM

Con

Thank you vi_777 for accepting my debate

Opening Statement:

Okay like image being forced to carry a baby you are not Physically, Emotionally or Financial ready for. Banning abortion isnt really about saving lives its more about controlling them. The right to choose is a fundamental human right. When the government chooses to restrict abortion, it puts women's lives endanger, it increases unsafe procedures, and it totally disregards the real-life situations.

Banning Abortion Violates Bodily Autonomy

One of the most important principles of human rights is bodily autonomy "The right to make decisions about one's own body." When the government forces someone to keep being pregnant against their will, it's taking away their freedom. No one is legally required to donate blood or organs to save a life right, so why should pregnancy be any different from that? The ability to have rule over your own body should never be up for debate.

Criminalizing Abortion doesn't Stop it, it just makes it more dangerous

Global data will show you that banning abortion doesn't eliminate it, it just makes it so people will do it illegally. According to the World Health Organization, countries with abortion bans have higher rates of maternal deaths due to unsafe abortions. When people do not have access to medical care, they will turn to risk, sometimes life-threatening alternatives just to get what they want. The goal shouldn't be to reduce the need for abortion through education, not banning it outright should be the goal.

Pregnancy can be life threatening

Not all pregnancies are safe to be exact, for some, having a baby can be fatal. Problems like ectopic pregnancies, preeclampsia, and many other medial conditions can lead to women being killed due to pregnancy. A ban on abortion forces women to endure dangerous and sometimes fatal pregnancies, sometimes leading to permanent health issues aswell.

Closing Statement:

Banning abortion is not the solution at all. Its more dangerous to have a baby then not to and its a restriction on personal human rights. Instead of outlawing abortion, we should focus on better sex education not allowing people to get pregnant without knowing the risks.

vi_777

02.13.2025 06:48AM

Pro

so well then what about the cases where a woman actually does want a child, n in many parts of world, since ultrasound makes it easy to know the kid's gender, there are societies that go to abortion just cz they need a boy. also, if pregnancy can be life threatening does that mean one doesn't continue their generation, here ban should be made , n in account of this govts should educate ppl , since u already believe that, n also as u said havin a baby is danerous , dude really? how come babies are dangerous? do they hv guns when they r born n they be like:alright doc gimme the milk or i'll go pew pew!

SOME SCIENCE BASED-EVIDENCE

1. Psychological Impact of Abortion on Mental Health (Post-Abortion Syndrome)

While research varies, some studies suggest a subset of individuals experience anxiety, depression, or PTSD after an abortion, especially in societies where it's heavily stigmatized.

Reference: A study published in the British Journal of Psychiatry found that women who had abortions were more likely to experience mental health challenges compared to those who gave birth.

2. Fetal Development Science

By 6-7 weeks of gestation, a fetal heartbeat is detectable. By 20 weeks, the nervous system can respond to stimuli, raising ethical questions about fetal pain.Reference: A 2020 study in JAMA Pediatrics indicated potential pain perception might occur earlier than previously thought.

"Science shows us that a fetus might perceive pain earlier than we assumed. If we are against animal cruelty due to their pain perception, should we not apply the same principle to human life at its earliest stages?"

3. Reproductive Health and Population Dynamics

In countries like China and India, gender-based abortions have led to skewed sex ratios, causing long-term social problems like increased human trafficking.Fact: In India, the child sex ratio fell to 918 girls per 1,000 boys due to gender-based abortions (Census 2011).

"Legalizing abortion without strict regulations in certain contexts has led to severe demographic crises. How do we justify a practice that, when misused, endangers the societal structure itself?"

4. Pregnancy Risks vs. Medical Advances

Yes, pregnancy can be risky, but modern medicine has drastically reduced maternal mortality rates. Countries with advanced obstetric care (like Japan or Sweden) have maternal mortality rates close to zero.Fact: WHO data shows that with proper prenatal care, the vast majority of pregnancy-related risks can be mitigated."Pregnancy can be life-threatening — but with modern medical care, it's far safer than ever before. Should we discourage pregnancy entirely based on risks that medical science has successfully minimized?"

NOW WHAT DO U THINK, HUH?

Round 2

McMieky

02.15.2025 06:48AM

Con

Forfeited

vi_777

02.15.2025 09:31AM

Pro

I'll just go through it bit precise n brief.

While my rival has zeroed in on the singular decision perspective, there are certain cultural results that support a prohibition on abortion.
Gender Imbalance: In numerous countries, gender-based abortions are creating serious demographic issues. By favoring male children, we're seeing a sharp decrease in the female population, leading to societal issues like human trafficking and gender inequality. Legalizing abortion without strict regulations allows this harmful practice to continue unchecked.
Mental Impact on Women: Studies indicate that abortion can cause mental health issues, such as depression and anxiety for some women, especially in societies where it's stigmatized. While it is true that many women choose abortion, the long-term emotional consequences should not be overlooked.
Advancements in Medical Care: Modern medicine has drastically reduced the risks of pregnancy. With proper prenatal care, maternal mortality has become rare in developed countries. Pregnancy is no longer as dangerous as it used to be, and current healthcare offers solutions for complications, making abortion unnecessary for many women.
Conclusion: Banning abortion is essential for protecting women's mental health, preventing gender imbalances, and upholding the sanctity of life. We should recognize the broader societal impact and focus on improving prenatal care rather than relying on abortion as a solution.

Round 3

McMieky

02.15.2025 07:13PM

Con

Refutation of My Opponent's Argument

1. Gender-Based Abortions & Population Problems

Opponent's Argument: Legal abortion leads to gender imbalances in societies where children are wished to be boys, which adds to issues such as human trafficking and inequality.

Counter: Our issue is not abortion but cultural misogyny and discrimination. Banning abortion doesn't eliminate the cultural bias towards male children—it simply pushes them underground into illegal, dangerous ones. Instead of rolling back abortion rights across the board, we should tackle the cause of the issue: gender inequity, education, and cultural prejudice.

Hindu-majority India and China with Chinese population both banned sex-selective abortion but not abortion in general. That is, targeted policy can tackle the issue without infringing on reproductive rights.

2. Mental Health & Post-Abortion Syndrome

Argument of Opponent: Abortion causes depression, anxiety, or PTSD, especially in stigmatized societies.

Counter: The evidence regarding post-abortion mental health is inconsistent and the majority of people who have abortion will not experience long-term psychological distress. The American Psychological Association could not identify any evidence to warrant the assumption that abortion has mental health consequences. Instead, coercive pregnancy, poverty, and poor support negatively affect mental health.

If the issue is stigma around abortion, then the solution to the issue is removing stigma, not banning abortion. Women feel relieved after abortion because they made the correct choice for their situation.

3. Risks of Pregnancy vs. Advances in Medicine

Argument of Opponent: Since modern medicine has improved pregnancy so much that it is no longer necessary to have an abortion.

Counter: Despite the advancement of medicine, pregnancy is not yet safe. Preeclampsia, gestational diabetes, and hemorrhage may cause long-term harm or even death. And let's not forget that not everyone can afford to receive the best medical treatment. Pregnancy being safer does not necessarily mean it is safe—people should not be compelled to take that risk against their will.

Moreover, pregnancy is not only a health concern—it's an emotional, psychological, and economic one, as well. No one should be compelled to go through something as intense as giving birth just because "it's safer than before."

Conclusion

Limiting abortion doesn't solve the problem my opponent brought up. Instead of restricting rights, we should:

End gender discrimination to end sex-selective abortions.

Provide mental health care and reduce stigma against abortion.

Open up access to care so people can get what they need.

Abortion is not a political decision but an individual one. It needs to be safe, legal, and accessible.

vi_777

02.15.2025 08:05PM

Pro

1. Real Independence versus Fetal Honors

"My rival continues to approach this as a rights issue — what might be said about the unborn kid's privileges? Significant Autonomy is urgent, however every right has limits. Your independence can't legitimize hurting another life. In the event that we safeguard creatures from hurt, how might we legitimize finishing a human existence fit for feeling torment?"

Lawful Correlation: In many social orders, truly hurting an embryo (e.g., through attack on a pregnant lady) is a wrongdoing. For what reason is it a wrongdoing all things considered however a decision in early termination?

2. Moral Twofold Guidelines

"Society grieves unnatural birth cycle yet safeguards fetus removal. If the departure of a required pregnancy is a setback, how is the cognizant finish of an unfortunate one essentially a choice?"

3. Place of refuge Regulations and Reception Choices

"Numerous nations have Place of refuge regulations permitting moms to surrender babies without repercussions securely. In the event that a lady can't bring up the youngster, why not pick reception rather than end?"

Detail: In the US, there are around 36 couples standing by to embrace for each 1 youngster set for reception.

4. Financial and Social Effect of Fetus removal Decline

"Studies from nations with declining rates of birth show monetary emergencies — less labor force, less advancement, seriously maturing populace issues. Check out at Japan's populace emergency. Early termination adds to segment breakdown."

5. Dangerous Slant of 'Decision' Culture

"Normalizing early termination opens ways to other moral risks — originator infants, genetic counseling, and the downgrading of debilitated lives. Should inability or orientation be motivation to deny life?"

6. Influence on Fathers' Privileges

"For what reason does the dad have zero say? Being a parent takes two individuals, however fetus removal freedoms frequently reject men from choices about their own kid's life."

Last Hit:
"Early termination isn't strengthening. Genuine strengthening is giving ladies genuine decisions — backing, medical care, and choices like reception. Fetus removal isn't a response; it's a result of an overall population bombarding its women and its children."

vi_777

02.27.2025 03:52PM

#10

-->

@Lemming

thank u 4 putting in such a heavy thot ig I didn't even think of it so seriously the way u did.......... n well yes I'll try to keep in mind ur opinion (˶ᵔ ᵕ ᵔ˶)

Lemming

02.21.2025 01:23AM

RFV 1/2
Title and Description
From what I've read other places, people often view this more gray, than black or white.
Goalposts might be difficulty in debate.

McMieky Round 1
Opening Statement,
That doesn't mean I think the baby should be killed, nor that I think I have the fundamental 'right to kill said baby.
I'd agree though, that government restrictions 'can put women's lives in danger, increases unsafe procedures, and disregard the real-life situations.
Arguably though, I'd think there 'can be reasonable restriction.

Banning Abortion Violates Bodily Autonomy,
A fair argument, but there is a difference between forcing someone to have kids, and not allowing someone to kill their kid.
People are forced by the courts to make alimony payments, to preform jury duty, to be drafted into war. Though there are arguments against such, I mention them as argument that bodily autonomy while highly valued, is not generally treated as absolute fundamental in society.
People against abortion don't so much want to force a person to carry a pregnancy, as prevent them from killing the unborn.

Criminalizing Abortion doesn't Stop it, it just makes it more dangerous,
A decent argument, but it's good to use sources to back up claims.
There are also Deontological arguments as well as cultural consequence outcome arguments against legalizing abortion.

Pregnancy can be life threatening,
A fair argument, complete bans on abortion 'can ignore situations that even many Pro Life individuals would support a person's right to an abortion.

Lemming Thoughts,
McMieky brings up common held values such as bodily autonomy and minimizing harm.
Makes decent arguments.

vi_777 Round 1
I disagree with McMieky here, I think babies/pregnancy 'can be dangerous, more or less depending on circumstance. One reason some people dislike an outright ban on abortion, is it can ignore life threatening pregnancies.

1. Psychological Impact of Abortion on Mental Health (Post-Abortion Syndrome)
Sounds more an argument people should avoid abortion, than people should be forced not to choose abortion. I 'do like McMieky's bodily autonomy argument, although it misses Pro Life thrust of being Pro Unborn life, rather than being Pro Control Other's Bodies.

2. Fetal Development Science
Personhood 'is something commonly valued by humans, but not all people value human 'life, if they think said life is not yet a person.

3. Reproductive Health and Population Dynamics
While it can have an impact on society, I'm not sure that government controlling the population's reproduction is a popular value (Depending on country).
Some countries have limited how many kids people can have, such as China.
Additionally as genetic modification improves in science, one might expect government to exert degrees of control more over time.

4. Pregnancy Risks vs. Medical Advances
A good argument against the 'smaller death risks of childbirth.
Though it does not address the high risk situations.

Lemming Thoughts,
I consider the vi_777 Development argument, the better of their arguments. Though the argument still needs be developed.
The societal risks 'might be decent, if further argued.
McMieky argument on high risk situations still stands strong.
I think debate goalposts still vague though, as to what 'banned means.

Lemming

02.21.2025 01:22AM

RFV 2/2
McMieky Round 2
Missed, assumably just didn't have time, but I'll have to read up on voting on conduct and missed round/s.

vi_777 Round 2
Gender Imbalance,
I'm still uncertain about this argument, and think vi_777 needs to more fully justify government and law's control over human reproduction.

Mental Impact on Women,
'Still sounds more an argument people should avoid abortion, than people should be forced not to choose abortion.

Advancements in Medical Care,
Still decent argument against the small risks, but not the large risk situationals.

Conclusion,
I am still unsure if I should interpret debate as
Pro Abortion should be legal in some cases,
Con Abortion should not be legal in any cases.
Or
Pro Abortion should be legal in some cases,
Con Abortion should not be legal in most cases.

McMieky Round 3
Not a 'bad argument, as even if a culture 'had both boys and girls, if it does not 'value one sex or the other, then said sex is 'still going to be poorly treated.
The banning of sex-selective abortion in China 'still resulted in a higher boy to girl population, as some individuals disposed of their daughters in other ways.
. . . Some people argue the 'necessity of the one child policy, though others might argue Chinas population boomed prior to said legislation due to earlier goverment incompetence and policies designed to encourage population growth.

2. Mental Health & Post-Abortion Syndrome
McMieky makes good arguments on stigma and circumstance.

3. Risks of Pregnancy vs. Advances in Medicine
McMieky's strongest line of argument in the debate continues strong.
They also add to it in this round with "emotional, psychological, and economic" argument.

Conclusion,
McMieky 'does address well all of vi_777's arguments, 'except personhood.
. . . 'But, vi_777 did not directly 'state personhood themself, they stated in round 1 pain and human 'life, not personhood.

vi_777
1. Real Independence versus Fetal Honors
While vi_777 'does more explicitly speak of unborn rights/privilege/hurt.
It is 'still in my view 'lightly stated by vi_777, I do not see deep justification and argument of unborn personhood or value,
The value is explicitly asserted, but I think more needed to be elucidated.

2. Moral Twofold Guidelines
I 'think vi_777 is arguing what about the unborns choice?

3. Place of refuge Regulations and Reception Choices
Argument of option unprepared parents can have.

4. Financial and Social Effect of Fetus removal Decline
Society argument, which again for me, feels unfinished, my own culture (America) is 'huge on individual freedom as a value. Rather than government control.

5. Dangerous Slant of 'Decision' Culture
Cultural drift, a good argument, but as it is in last round, I do not tally it as highly as earlier round arguments.

6. Influence on Fathers' Privileges
Late round argument.

tigerlord

02.17.2025 03:54PM

-->

@McMieky

Thanks ,👍🙂

McMieky

02.17.2025 03:04PM

-->

@tigerlord

Your 100% initialed to your own opinion, I should allow people to vote how they want my bad.

tigerlord

02.17.2025 08:29AM

-->

@McMieky

On the other hand your stance is to allow abortion altogether and you argued for partial allowance where it's dangerous for mother. If the resolution would be partial ban and partial allowance then you could win easily. On the other hand giving someone a win is very hard on this topic. But arguments from pro were very strong to sway me. First I decided to tie after reading first round but next 2 rounds let me decide what I have decided. Best arguemnt from your opponent was that people mourn when it's miscarriage and they think it's ok to abort when it's un wanted pregnancy. Also the fetus feels pain as well. Obviously procedure for abortion is to cut off the limbs of baby bit by but while he or she is alive and I have seen some animated videos of procedure it's very heart breaking. I am father too and my wife got 2 miscarriage too so I can understand what abortion means and your opponent has conveyed it perfectly. I hope you understand my situation.

tigerlord

02.17.2025 08:21AM

-->

@McMieky

What you think, my vote should have been? If you can specify me something which outweigh the arguments of your opponent, let me know I would consider it. I do not care last round arguement because of arguments are good then it must be considered.

McMieky

02.17.2025 06:55AM

-->

@tigerlord

Just because I didn't use one agreement that you liked doesn't mean I should lose.

WyIted

02.16.2025 07:30PM

I think Tigerlord got the vote right. I am going to refrain voting on this because votes are probably more time consuming than creating arguments and my time is limited. I am willing to reconsider and place a vote, and can't know 100% where my vote would go but given its a 3 round debate and con missed a round and I generally will not accept new arguments in the final round, I most likely would vote for pro

Best.Korea

02.12.2025 04:34PM

I dont really greatly approve of abortions, but I dont approve the ban either. I am kinda neutral on the issue.

Lemming

02.21.2025 01:24AM

Criterion

Con

Tie

Pro

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

RFV
Due to title saying saying banned, rather than regulated, I interpret goalposts as vi_777 arguing for abortion being banned in all cases.
I additionally take this view as vi_777 did not address McMieky arguments on High Risk Situationals.

Neither side included sources.
Both sides legible.
Conduct to Pro for Con forfeit of a round.
https://info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy

McMieky offered solutions to societal imbalances argued by vi_777.
McMieky missing the vi_777 unborn value arguments by vi_777, hurt McMieky, but only slightly as vi_777 was not explicit or in depth with it.
The question of society value vs individual value in debate is inconclusive.
vi_777 missing or avoiding McMieky arguments on High Risk Situations that may call for abortion are what pushes me to vote for McMieky.
Further RFV in comments 8 and 9 of debate.

tigerlord

02.16.2025 05:24PM

Criterion

Con

Tie

Pro

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Con:
Very tough debate, con argue about banning abortion, it would have been better if he would claim that abortion should be banned partially. What he was claiming, it would be better to ban it partially because it seems the stance of con in debate.
He argued about that some pregnancies are dangerous to carry. It's true, but tbh honest endangered pregnancies abort on its own most of times.
And abortion should be allowed in that case which I think is good point from con.

Pro:
A lot of good arguemnts.
1
Fetus also feels pain, while we protect animals right to not be harmed then how come infant human life and pain felt by him is not important to considered.
2
When wanted pregnancy is ends is tradegy then how come unwanted is not? In both cases a human soul is lost.
3
If someone is physically or financially unstable then adoption and government care is available so this should not be concerned.
4
Male partner should also have say as he is parent too.
5
Physiological impact of killing your own baby. Probably becuse or guilt. A good arguemnt.
It suggest a person kills her own child.

Conclusion:
It's very hard but I would give to pro, if con would have argued about partial ban and not allowing it all together he could win easily . While it seems the case which con was defending.