Instigator / Pro
1600
rating
24
debates
72.92%
won
Topic
#5893
Christian god cannot be real
Status
Debating
Waiting for the next argument from the instigator.
Round will be automatically forfeited in:
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DD
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00
HH
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00
MM
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Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Rated
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
- Minimal rating
- 1,450
Contender / Con
1527
rating
8
debates
87.5%
won
Description
Christian god as described in the Bible cannot exist.
By accepting this debate you also accept that the Bible is either the complete word of god or the Bible is completely made by mankind. There’s not saying that some scriptures are real and others are not. No picking and choosing.
Primary burden of proof rests with Pro. Pro must prove that he is impossible and Con must prove that he is at least somewhat possible.
Round 1
(This opening argument is mostly the same as the last time I did this debate, just FYI)
Thank you Con for accepting this debate
God is Perfect
My main argument is pretty simple.
Premise 1: Christian God is either perfect, or he does not exist
Premise 2: Beings that Contradict themselves are imperfect
Premise 3: Christian God contradicts himself
Premise 4: Christian God is imperfect
Conclusion: Christian God cannot be real
To summarize, if Christian God is real, then he is perfect and the Bible is his word. Since the Bible describes him as perfect, then if there was a being similar to christian god but he was imperfect, he would not be christian god then. Premise 1 is going to be pretty hard to dispute because of that.
Frankly, it would be pretty hard to dispute premise 2 IMO so I'm not going to try and back it up, but if you want to attack that part of my argument I will provide supporting premises.
Premise 4 relies on premise 3, so most of my argument will be dedicated to supporting the third premise.
Here are some basic contradictions:
Genesis 1:11-13: "And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. So the evening and the morning were the third day"Genesis 2:5-2:7: "...the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, before any plant of the field was in the earth and before any herb of the field had grown. For the Lord God had not caused it to rain on the earth, and there was no man to till the ground; but a mist went up from the earth and watered the whole face of the ground. And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."
Matthew 27:5: "And throwing down the pieces of silver into the temple, he (Judas) departed, and he went and hanged himself."Acts 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out."
Ecclesiastes 1:4 “… the earth abideth for ever.”Peter 3:10 “… the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.”
Those are only a few of the many contradictions. If more are required, I can provide them but these should suffice for our purposes. The fact that God contradicts himself should be enough, but the Bible even goes on to dispute modern science.
The bible gives its own account of the creation of animals that is in direct contradiction to the modern science of evolution.
Evolution can be observed in labs with viruses, and the fossil record also supports this.
but apart from the theory of evolution, the Bible contradicts even more science that is even more impossible to refute.
The Bible doesn't make any mention of planets, or other celestial bodies besides the sun, moon and stars. Why would it only mention god's creation of the earth and not the rest of the universe?
The bible says that the earth is stationary:
"The Lord established the earth on its foundations so it will never move." Psalm 104:5
The bible implies that the earth is about 6,000 to 10,000 years old, when studies show that it is most likely much more than that.
You won't be able to access this, but it's a study done on an asteroid created roughly the same time as the earth. They used carbon dating to estimate that it's about 4.5 billion years old. There is a margin of error, but not nearly enough to mean they were off by 4.4 billion years.
And biggest of all, it strongly implies a flat earth, which is just not true.
Matthew 4:8: "Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor"
To explain that last one, it would be impossible to see everywhere on the earth when on a spherical earth, and even if "God" didn't mean everywhere by "all kingdoms" then it would still be extremely hard to see that far on a spherical earth.
Conclusion
The Bible contradicts many proven facts of modern science, and even contradicts itself. If the Bible is truly the word of God, and God is a perfect being, then his word would not have contradictions. You can dispute premises 1 and 2 if you want, but I'm going to assume you won't. Seeing as I have effectively proved premises 3 and 4, my conclusion stands that Christian God cannot be real.
Thank you for accepting Con, I yield the floor.
Hi Moozer325
It seems you're underestimating the immense burden of proof you're taking on. When you use the word "impossible," you are asserting ultimate knowledge of the nature of reality and existence itself. There’s a reason why no one—whether they’re a scientist, philosopher, or theologian—has ever been able to conclusively prove or disprove the existence of any God. Any amount of contradictions in the Bible cannot disqualify the mere possibility (no matter how unlikely) that the Christian God exist. Here's where the problems are:
1. If God exists, we cannot possibly understand His reasons, logic, or plans.
2. Even if the Bible is the word of God, it’s widely accepted that it was written, translated, and edited by human hands over time.
3. Even if the Bible is entirely man-made, that doesn’t prove that God wasn’t behind it.
4. How can anyone claim to know what a perfect God is or what such a God would or wouldn’t do?
1. God’s Plan:
PRO, can you demonstrate with absolute certainty that God did not want the Bible to be exactly as it is now? Can you prove that things aren’t exactly as God intended them to be? Are you asserting that human minds are on the same level as the mind of the ultimate Creator of the Universe? Can you claim with certainty that you know what’s in this deity’s mind or why He does what He does? Furthermore, can you prove that God’s “contradictions” were not intentional, with some higher purpose that we cannot possibly understand? If God's contradictions were on purpose for reasons we can’t fathom, does that still constitute a mistake?
2. Human Intervention:
This one is fairly self-explanatory. It’s entirely possible that God gave His word and then humans corrupted it over time. While I find the arguments against Free Will convincing, there’s still the possibility that God intentionally allows humans the ability to make mistakes. Can you definitively disprove this with absolute certainty? There's still the fact that we do not understand the full nature of reality and consciousness and if God is indeed real he could want us to be able to make mistakes using our Free Will. Any chance of disproving with absolute certainty any of this? I ask this sarcastically because, frankly, it’s highly unlikely that you are the first and only person in the history of mankind that can do that.
3. The Possibility of Divine Influence:
Let’s assume for a moment that a group of people invented a religion and created fantastical stories. Can you prove with absolute certainty that the Christian God wasn’t somehow involved in this process? Could it not be the case that God orchestrated these events, guiding people in ways that might appear completely human, even though He had a role in inspiring the stories? Perhaps God decided that revealing Himself in this indirect manner would be more impactful, or that He didn’t want to overwhelm humanity with direct divine revelation. Could He have chosen to allow the creation of a seemingly false narrative that would gradually lead people to the truth? Maybe he decided it is better for some reason for people to come to him through this controversial story? Do you have access to some other deity that you can ask or compare and see if this is what gods don't do?
4. The Nature of Perfection:
An apparent contradiction in an ancient text does not automatically imply a divine mistake. How can you claim that any of this is ultimately a failure? Additionally, can you even define what a “perfect” God is? I assume you would describe God as one who makes no mistakes. But if you’re not familiar with God’s ultimate purpose or end goals, how can you assert that apparent contradictions are failures? Also many theologians would disagree that these contradictions even exist in the first place. So there goes your certainty in that too.
Conclusion:
In the end, there's a reason that wise people refrain from asserting ultimate knowledge about anything. Even in science, when something is proven to be correct with the highest degree of certainty, it's still not considered an “ultimate fact of existence” because we acknowledge that we might be wrong. You cannot prove something is impossible with absolute certainty. The closest we can get to absolute certainty are things like mathematical axioms, such as 1+1=2. But to say that a supernatural deity is impossible simply because some elements in a book don’t make sense doesn’t get you anywhere.
That’s why I don’t even need to address all the contradictions you’ve brought up. They simply don’t matter. Even if you are correct in your interpretations, all that proves is that the existence of this God is unlikely—not impossible. None of us know what a perfect God looks like or what He would do. None of us understand the ultimate nature of reality. Therefore, arguing that the Christian God is impossible based on contradictions in an ancient text misses the larger picture.
If you want to continue debating this, perhaps the title should be changed to "The Christian God is Very Unlikely to Exist," where I could concede some ground. But at the end of the day, none of us can prove the impossibility of the Christian God with absolute certainty.
I look forward to PRO's concession in the next round unless he wants to try his hardest to do what we all know no human has ever done yet and prove with absolute certainty he knows what's metaphysically possible and what is not. If he does that he might be God himself.
Thanks!
Round 2
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Round 3
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