Are christians under the law?

Now from here you can see Mathew 5:17 says the law has to be followed "until heaven and earth pass" which means the meaning of fullfil here doesn't matter whether it means to follow the law or to fullfil it literally it still says you need to follow the law for eternity , maybe it hasn't yet been fullfiled or maybe it was fullfiled by making it known to everyone and teaching them how to actually follow it but again it doesn't matter since at the end it says until heaven and earth pass away which means until the end of times, the loving god and your neighbor is all you need to do argument is not good too since 1 John 5:2 quite literally says the true love for god is following his commandments plus it doesn't even say loving god is all you need to do it just emphasizes it's importance especially when you bear in mind the passage where Jesus tells a man to give everything he has and come worship the only true god "Matthew 19:21: Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." which indicates love isn't all you need it's just important as for Paul , he said (as you can see above) that christians are under grace not under the law but that doesn't nullify the law as he himself stated as seen above, he never said the law is not to be followed anymore he just emphasized grace and faith over it and said it's more important

Greetings. I'm going to argue from this angle.

Now you already gave a scripture that just contradicts your position.

I think the difference between our positions will be the order in which the law is still fulfilled or kept even without being under it according to my side that I can provide from scripture.

Let's start with the one scripture you used that actually fits my position of "no" to the topic question.

No , sons or the body of Christ is not under the law . If they were, it would kill them. This is why grace was extended. People failed and being under the law as the scripture say for what the law could not do.

The letter of the law killeth according to the scriptures. So they can't be under the law. It's the spirit now and the body of Christ can shout "Hallelujah Salvation and glory and power belong to our God, for true and just" because the body has an advocate. The body can lift up the eyes until the hills which cometh help. The body can say but God be thanked as we read in Romans 6.

I think I'll use at least three witnesses as the scripture says let every word be established.

Let's go back to Romans 6 and start at verse :14

"14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace."

Are the faithful children of God, the body of Christ who you would call Christians under the law?

This verse says no. So really that bout wraps it up.

Now some questions may arise about commands giving and keeping commandments and what Jesus said and does it mean we that are believers don't have to obey anything because of grace?

I'll address all this. In verse 15 we'll learn about not being under the law, but gather explanation as to not sin anyway which sin is transgression of the law.

So now we're learning that we sin or not sin based on being a servant. People of God , true people of God, born of God don't sin all while not being under the law because they've been made servants of righteousness. They've been made instruments of righteousness. They've been made slaves and vessels and been caused to bear good fruit of a tree as the branches they are.

"16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

So it says "ye were the servants of sin", past tense. So then you've changed or "became the servants of righteousness."

This is so as you are led by the spirit. 

This is so according to Romans 8 and you fulfill all things without even having to be under the law.

See if you were under it, you'd be doomed and for what the law could not do which is save you from death.

In the book of Corinthians , let's read the second book, chapter 3.

"6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

What is written down and established to be followed and believed such as laws, commandments, the gospel was not sufficient . Remember for what the law could not do , the sufficiency in God came with the spirit in the hearts, written in the hearts of the children of God. That same spirit which giveth life is life eternal. That is suffice in order to make it into the kingdom. Just being under laws won't cut for what the law could not. God gave grace with the gift of the Holy spirit, gift of eternal life. Not of works the scriptures say. Not a works-based salvation.

If you are under the law, you are not led of the spirit.

Galatians 5:18

So this is how this lines up even taking us back to what Jesus told the rich man. He told him what to do not because he was under the law but these are things of what a servant to righteousness would do who is led by the spirit.

How do we know this? Jesus said none good but one. That one is the spirit that is good. So the question can be asked why have the rich man ask about what to do and Jesus answers what to do when it's not even the person that's doing it but CHRIST that liveth in you , see?

Let's go back to Matthew 19, I'll end off with this passage.

See, the rich man, and the opposing side didn't even catch on about what Jesus preface before even giving an answer. 

The rich man or the man with  great possessions demonstrated that without the spirit, it was insufficiency. He couldn't deny himself.  When you talk about a good thing to do, what good is that without the one who is good leading you to do?

He said what good thing shall I do  . Scripture say there is no more I that live. You deny yourself and your dead to sin. This man didn't die. He wasn't born again which is being born of the spirit receiving the spirit being led by it. He still saying what good thing shall I do . If you or the man would of caught what Christ said, he told you who was only good. So that nullified the man of even doing anything. There's no good he can do and that is demonstrated just left to himself in this passage. 

You just leave it to yourself thinking you can be justified by law , it'll just bring about death. This is why the people of God are not under the law because the people of God have life. The opposite, being under the law, they would not have life and find it very hard  to enter the kingdom like this man here in Matthew compared to a camel entering a needle.

For the scriptures say it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Thank you.

Hi brother I hope you are doing well , thanks for your answer, now to the matter at hand 

There seems to be a misunderstanding here which was primarily caused by me , the title I used is inappropriate since if you look carefully in my argument I quite literally said " as for Paul , he said (as you can see above) that christians are under grace not under the law but that doesn't nullify the law as he himself stated as seen above, he never said the law is not to be followed anymore he just emphasized grace and faith over it and said it's more important" so my argument was about the fact that christians still have to follow the law and that it's still important as it's god's law but that now it's simply not as important as it was and Christians now have more room and flexibility when it comes to following it as they now "under grace " but basically what I am arguing about is that being under grace simply does not mean you can sin however you want and break all the mosaic law carelessly as Paul himself said Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. 

And Hebrews said Hebrews 10:26-27 (ESV): "For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries." 

Which really doesn't need explaining lol it's pretty obvious sinning deliberately even while under grace is wrong 

And Romans says 

Romans 6:15-16 (ESV): "What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?"

Which you already quoted when you said those born of god follow god's commands through the spirit not through reading the scriptures aka that actual believers know right from wrong and what's righteous and what's not , not because they read and adhere to the law but because of the holy spirit which I am not really against since that's basic Christianity and tbh it's not really against my point since it still says real good righteous christians follow the law through instinct and through faith in Jesus 

There is also 1 John 3:8-10 (ESV): "Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother." This passage from 1 John draws a clear distinction between the children of God and those who follow the devil, stating that a person who continues to sin is of the devil, not of God.

John which I believe was affected by Paul's theology(maybe that's a topic for another time :) but that doesn't matter Does it?) says that sinning deliberately and making it a habit makes you born of the devil not of god , which again supports my claim that even though christians are under the law they can't just go around sinning , grace is just a way so that christians can have an excuse and can be justified if they accidentally sin and not deliberately, since the law was very strict before Jesus after he came now christians are justified by grace if they ever stumble and sin in other words sin is washes away and destroyed by faith grace deletes the sin as if it never happened as long as you don't just keep sining deliberately over and over and over again without ever thinking about it no that's when grace isn't an excuse, so again in summary christians are under grace not the law but the law is still very important and they still have to try to follow it and they shouldn't abandon it , or you can have another point of view and it's that those born of god or actual christians or christians that are true believers and actually have faith all follow the law by nature as they are guided by the spirit both point of views I accept, now anyways you still kind of didn't answer my last argument all you did was say christians are under grace not the law which again I already said(tho I am dumb and the title was a cause of misunderstanding) but then you completely ignored all the passages that I sent that tell christians not to sin deliberately and the passages saying that the law is still important not just a thing of the past so I am waiting for your answer:) and I am very very sorry for the misunderstanding I really didn't mean it it's my bad , anyways I am also very interested to what you will say to Mathew 23:1-3 in which I quoted in the last argument in the "extra" part , lastly what you said about the rich man in Mathew about the rich man when you said "So this is how this lines up even taking us back to what Jesus told the rich man. He told him what to do not because he was under the law but these are things of what a servant to righteousness would do who is led by the spirit.

" Is wrong because that was before Jesus sacrificed himself aka before grace which would mean this does not apply at all , the man was still under the law as this was before the sacrifice we can see that grace came after the sacrifice not before and as an example we have Hebrews 9:15-17: