Is the atonement of Jesus Christ ethically tenable?
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This debate has been proposed by Casey_Risk. I kindly ask that nobody else accepts this debate.
This debate will explore the ethical foundations of the atonement of Jesus Christ, particularly the Catholic belief that His sacrificial death was not only morally justifiable but divinely necessary for the salvation of humanity. The focus will be on whether it is ethically tenable that Jesus, who was without sin, bore the punishment for humanity's sins in our place, thereby expiating us from our impurities.
The goal of this debate is not to declare a 'Winner' or 'Loser,' but to engage in a thoughtful discussion that deepens the understanding of Christ’s atoning work and its ethical implications, especially from a Catholic viewpoint.
Definitions:
Atonement - By atonement in general is understood the satisfaction of a demand. In the narrower sense it is taken to mean the reparation of an insult. This occurs through a voluntary performance which outweighs the injustice done (Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma, 186-187).
Rules:
1. Both parties agree on the historical existence and death of Jesus.
2. For consistency, the NRSV Bible will be used as the reference when citing scripture.
3. In the final round, only counterarguments addressing previous points will be allowed; no new arguments may be introduced.
4. Failure to comply with rule #3 will result in an automatic forfeiture.
- Jesus Christ died as a sacrifice so that the sins of humanity could be forgiven.
- Jesus had never sinned, and therefore had done nothing to be deserving of death.
- Jesus's death was part of God's plan.
In the Book of Genesis, we read of the first humans, Adam and Eve, living in perfect harmony with God in the Garden of Eden. However, their choice to disobey God by eating from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (Genesis 3:1-6) introduced the experience of sin into the world. This act of disobedience, known as Original Sin, caused a rupture in their relationship with God. As a result, humanity became estranged from God, and the harmony of creation was broken.
. . .sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned
Sin, by its nature, is an offense against God, who is infinitely good. Therefore, the offense requires a satisfaction of infinite value.
how could someone who had done nothing to deserve death, nor any sort of punishment whatsoever, be killed, and yet God's plan for this could be perfectly ethical and justified? The Christian response is generally that it was truly necessary
if one is to accept that the sacrifice of Jesus was necessary for salvation, then God must have been either unwilling or unable to grant reconciliation to humanity without it.
if the sacrifice of Jesus, God's only son, was not truly necessary, then it was gratuitous suffering -- a gratuitous evil. I believe it is self-evident that intentionally causing gratuitous suffering is inherently a moral wrong, which would render the doctrine of Atonement ethically untenable.
Why was such a tree made in the first place? ... It is obvious that God must have known that, if humans had eaten from the Tree of Knowledge, which they easily could have done so, sin and death would spread to all their descendants.
God knowingly and intentionally created the situation that made the death of a perfect, sinless human who deserved no harm necessary.
stealing all the money that a homeless person has is far, far worse than stealing a small amount from the richest person alive. $100 is only a trivial fraction of Musk's net worth after all, but it can be hugely consequential to a person with no means.
The sacrifice of Jesus was necessary for humanity's redemption and reconciliation with God, but not in the sense that Jesus was the only conceivable method of achieving that redemption. God, in His infinite wisdom, could have chosen any number of ways to redeem humanity.
Given God's omnipotence, He can bring about any good that does not involve a logical contradiction. [. . .] The notion that God could remit sin in a way other than Jesus’ death does not entail a contradiction.
Thinking logically, it should be clear that God, as an Almighty, omnipotent being, transcending all human and even physical limitations, cannot be meaningfully harmed by humans in any way. As the input of a decreasing exponential function tends toward infinity, the output tend toward zero. The less someone is harmed by an offense, the less severe the offense is. Therefore, the idea that doing something which God forbids saddles an infinite debt upon the debtor is, in my opinion, patently absurd.
To be honest, I think this really says everything that there is to say. If Jesus's death on the cross wasn't necessary, then it was unneeded suffering, and intentionally willing for unnecessary suffering to happen, and causing it to come into effect, when any benefits from such actions could have come about through less suffering or none at all, is inherently a moral wrong.
Jesus acted voluntarily in giving up his human life. This is true, of course, according to the Bible, but to be honest, I feel that it makes little to no difference. ... I think it is obvious that harming someone does not automatically become morally acceptable if the person is willing to be harmed.
whether Jesus was willing or not, it was possible for salvation for humanity to come about through means other than his crucifixion.
we find a situation where God, despite not being able to be harmed by humans, nonetheless personally considers it a proportional response that humans suffer eternally, as those who are condemned to Hell will.
it is simply a fact that God willed that Adam and Eve's disobedience would have consequences for all of humanity, even though none of us were given the choice that they were given. ... we have all been cast out for a choice that we did not make. ... I, along with every other human, have been separated from God as well and therefore also deserve Hell, even though I myself was never independently given the option to accept or reject a relationship with God before being born in sin.
This assertion, however, overlooks the understanding that Jesus' death was absolutely necessary for humanity's redemption and reconciliation with God (Cf. Round 1, Main Body #1, Last Paragraph ; Round 2, Counter-Arguments, Third Refute).
The sacrifice of Jesus was necessary for humanity's redemption and reconciliation with God, but not in the sense that Jesus was the only conceivable method of achieving that redemption. God, in His infinite wisdom, could have chosen any number of ways to redeem humanity.
God, in His infinite wisdom, chose the crucifixion as the means of salvation precisely because it was the most fitting way to demonstrate both divine justice and mercy. The depth of human sin required a sacrifice of immense significance, and Christ's voluntary suffering on the cross fully expressed God's love for humanity.
To claim that there was a better alternative presumes a human understanding superior to God's, which is contrary to God's perfect wisdom.
My opponent thinks that Jesus being burdened with suffering against His volition, and He choosing Himself to bear this suffering has no difference. I hope the readers notice the flaw in this line of reasoning.
No problem, I hope I didn't misunderstand CON's arguments but I did my best.
Thank you for taking the time to read through this lengthy debate and procure a thoughtfully vote. I appreciate the effort you've put into it. Thank you!
Thanks for the debate! Hopefully it met or even exceeded the expectations you were coming here with.