1500
rating
2
debates
25.0%
won
Topic
#4778
God, as defined by the bible is inconsistent or demonstrably wrong and thus does not exist.
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After not so many votes...
It's a tie!
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
1420
rating
395
debates
43.8%
won
Description
No information
Round 1
Forfeited
"God, as defined by the bible is inconsistent or demonstrably wrong and thus does not exist."
How so?
Round 2
There are several inconsistencies in the God defined by the bible, to name a few examples:
Matthew 19:26: with God all things are possible.
Judges 1:19: The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron
Ezekiel 18:20: The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father
Exodus 20:5: I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation…
Regarding claims that are demonstrably wrong:
Genesis 1:7: And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
We know that the firmament is not made of the same substance as "the waters". They may contain water, but they are not made of the same substance.
While we may say that God meant something else, and that the bible may be subject to interpretation why would God an all powerful being, present the Bible in a cryptic way so as to have many different interpretations?
God, as defined by the Bible, is perfect: (Matthew 5:48) You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Then we can conclude that the Bible has not been inspired by God, or that God is an imperfect being. But in any case God as described by the Bible, does not exist.
"There are several inconsistencies in the God defined by the bible, to name a few examples:"
Being that the topic is about existence, the examples would have to demonstrate that God can't be two opposing things at once , things that would be paradoxical thus one negating the other nullifying His existence.
For instance as a pseudo scripture that says God is every where along with another that says God is no where to be found as being separate or not found in his presence.
An actual scripture says I am the Lord there is none else thus negating the doctrine of a "second person", another deity whatever.
Even if Matthew and Judges conflict, it doesn't nullify the existence of God.
But there is no contradiction between them.
I don't see a contradiction with Ezekiel. Perhaps you can point to what exactly you think is confusing to you.
"We know that the firmament is not made of the same substance as "the waters". They may contain water, but they are not made of the same substance."
No conflict nor nullifying the existence of God .
"While we may say that God meant something else, and that the bible may be subject to interpretation why would God an all powerful being, present the Bible in a cryptic way so as to have many different interpretations? "
Well let's start with why God do whatever God does?
Ephesians 1:11 states He worketh all things after the counsel of His own will .
Somethings what you don't know will shape your limited understanding .
Deuteronomy 29:29
“The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.”
In response to what you say about cryptic, let's look at MATTHEW 13 starting at 10 " And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them."
So it is given to them that it's given to. If your heart is waxed grossed, heart of stone, you won't understand. The scriptures does say His words are plain to anyone with understanding. The scripture says of all thy getting, get understanding.
So none of this negates the existence of God. Your understanding is non existent.
"Then we can conclude that the Bible has not been inspired by God, or that God is an imperfect being."
Scriptures say let God be true and every man a liar .
Now to prove that you lied and didn't just make a mistake, you just gave the scripture that said in Matthew 5 , even as your Father is perfect. Unless you didn't know God is the Father, then it would be just error not knowing the scriptures as the scripture says .
2 Timothy 3 verse 16 , "all scripture is given by inspiration of God".
"But in any case God as described by the Bible, does not exist."
So you reject God existing. That's really all. It's not really issues with the bible. If you just reject God to serve yourself and lean on your understanding, you change the truth of God into a lie as Romans 1 explains.
God doesn't exist , that is your belief or position. The bible has nothing to do with it. So with that basis, everything after that you will have eyes , will not see. You have ears , will not hear.
So without getting specific about what it is in any verse you provide, I can't help you much .
Round 3
Forfeited
I'm disappointed.
But I can continue.
1 Corinthians 2:14
"The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned."
When you hold the position that God does not exist, you reject the existence of God, you will not accept anything that has to do with God including given scripture to learn. You remain in no understanding which what appears as contradictions, inconsistencies, things that look foolish, don't make any sense.
Ephesians 4
"18 They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. 19 They have become callous and have given themselves up to sensuality, greedy to practice every kind of impurity."
I can go on and on. Same themes, ignorance, understanding, hard heart or heart of stone and verse 19 ties in to Romans 1.
Round 4
Forfeited
I rest my case.
Round 5
Forfeited
Case closed.
-> “ i agree with con therefore i vote con”
That is never proper justification for a debate vote.
Your voting privileges are revoked until such time as you show an interest in following the voting guidelines.
God is eternal and not bound by mortal logic