Batman wearing Hellbat would most likely defeat base Thor in a fight.
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 2 votes and with the same amount of points on both sides...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- One week
- Max argument characters
- 29,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
No information
- Enhanced Strength
- Durability
- Flight
- Energy Blasts
- Invisibility
- Super Vision
- SuperSpeed
- Instant Healing
- Multiversal Teleportation
- Shape-Shifting
- Ejecting Any Part
- Advanced A.I
- Voice Commands
- Powerful Chest Insignia Port
- Shields
- Life-Force
- Godly Strength
- Invulnerability
- Superhuman speed, stamina, and senses.
- Regenerative healing factor
- Longevity
- Super breath
- Flight
- Self Sustenance
- Earth Control
- Vast Energy Elimination
- Electrokinesis
- Rain manipulation
- Hellbat has the strength to punch heavyweights like Darkseid through walls at a great velocity. Injustice 2 - Hellbat Vs. Darkseid (VERY HARD) - YouTube
- But Thor has the ability to launch an Ice Giant to the opposite side of the planet with just the swing of his hammer. Thor vs The Frost Giants - Battle of Jotunheim (Scene) - Thor (2011) Movie CLIP HD - YouTube
Darkseid is shown to be greater than Thor but when we refer to physical strength, they are equal.
Both have the ability to lift over 100 tons, so they are within the same category.
- Established that Thor and Darkseid are of equal strength. Pro dismisses this.
- Demonstrated Thor’s power level by showing his ability to vaporize half a planet.
- Maintained that Thor is a superior being, even to your average god.
- Showed Thor’s insane durability by his feats of shrugging off Hulk’s attacks.
- Highlighted the critical weakness of the Hellbat suit, the wings and the starvation factor.
There are major flaws in this type of reasoning. It is not up to you to decide what a "category" is, because these characters are from different realities, Marvel, and DC, and because the creators never made such thing as "categories".
You also think that Thor can break Hellbat's wings. Frankly, I don't know how strong the wings are, so you might be right. But how exactly do you think that Thor is going to get close to a faster than light entity, and break its wings without getting shredded?
Also, you are telling me that because Thor could fight Hulk and not get hurt that much, the same would happen with Hulk? If you read anything that I wrote above, you would know that Hellbat could literally vaporize Hulk with a single blow. A similar thing would probably happen to Thor. And why are you still talking about Thor's durability when I already provided to you two examples of Thor getting wrecked?
You also said that Thor can use lightning bolts to destroy Hellbat. In case you didn't realize yet, Hellbat will dodge that slow 270,000 mph lightning with more ease than an average human dodging a tortoise 10 feet away. But wait, I don't think the Hellbat would get destroyed by some stupid lightning.The chances of Thor winning against Hellbat is probably less than 1/1,000,000. Literally.
At the end of the day, I would leave arguments tied, and give sources to con.
The videos overpowered it. I have a sense that Thor is a real fighter (including that he loses an eye in a fight). The most sense I had of Hellbat, was a guess that he's basically The Destroyer suit which we saw Thor beat. Even the abilities list of each were challenged, leaving me with little idea on the power level comparison.
I will say that I reject the Injustice evidence. I don't know the lore for that game, but I know in it Robin and Grey Hulk trade punches making them of comparable strenth, and they're likewise each a match for The Flash at speed. And of course Batman without that suit is just as capable against Darkseid (kinda the nature of the game). Sadly, this was the best hyping of Hellbat in this debate.
Pro: When making an argument about how strong Hellbat is, you're doing too many leaps into the transitive property. You should argue something like Darkseid's face is made of the material of nutron stars (I'm guessing), and here's an image of Hellbat cutting his head in half. Whereas you kept going on about how amazing Superman is, as if that's supposed to tell me if Darkseid cuts himself shaving or not.
Con: A little more focus on the tactics you believe Thor would use would have gone a long way. You didn't even challenge pro when he claimed that Batman's opening move is to murder whomever he's fighting.
Lifeforce: This was a mistake for pro to correct, since it initially sounded like Batman would have to watch his diet, not that he could die. At the same time, con did not leverage this.
The Final Batsuit: So Bruce wears the Batsuit to become Batman, and Batman wears Hellbat, and Hellbat wears The Final Batsuit... what or who is The Final Batsuit? I honestly got Powe Ranger vibes from this; is it a Zorg? Does Bruce morph into the Bat Ranger? ... It's just too far outside the scope, without telling the audience anything.
Immortality: Con really should have pushed this after pro brought it up.
Good round, I vote Pro, here's why:
1. On strength, I buy that even if they are both in the same "category", I know that Darkseid, which can equally trade blows with Hellbat, can handle at least 5.97 sextillion metric tons and Thor can do 100 tons. He has also defeated Hulk, the ice giants, and Destroyer, but none of this is contextualized. All these characters could only life 5 lbs for all I know, especially for the last two. At the very least, I have no warrant that they compare to 5.97 sextillion metric tons.
2. On durability, I buy that the wings can be destroyed on the Hellbat suit and that Thor can easily be damaged my much weaker beings than Darkseid. I don't weigh the Loki example because it's in the last speech when it could have been in the second to last after the Hela and Thanos examples were given, but even if I did, I have no numerical strength to weigh this against 5.97 sextillion metric tons. I also buy that the source this originally came from is flawed, and therefore question the validity of anything Con says.
3. On speed, I buy Hellbat is 2400x faster. This was brought up in the first speech, so I'm not gonna evaluate something about the speed of perception since Pro didn't get a chance to answer it. You also didn't answer the AI warrant, so doing Pro a little work since Con didn't do the work earlier in the debate, It's probably already answered.
4. On the metabolism argument, I buy that Hellbat could at least defeat Thor once in time since he was able to go to Apokalips and defeat Darkseid.
In conclusion, Hellbat is stronger, faster, and more durable. Easy win.
Notes for Pro
1. The metabolism argument was mishandled in two ways.
A. Don't admit that Thor can resurrect and then outlast Hellbat. This literally is saying there is a possible out for Con to win the round semantically. Define fight as a single defeat definitively.
B. The final bat suit is probably not Hellbat and would be unfair, though this didn't come up.
Notes for Con
1. You are not answering warrants. For example, on strength, you don't answer 5.97 sextillion metric tons. You let Pro control the debate when they control the facts.
2. PRO GAVE YOU AN OUT!!! Pro said that Thor could outlast if it counts his resurrections! Why didn't your next speech talk about that specifically, instead of extending the generic outlast argument that was answered by the Darkseid fight?
Good round, if you have questions or comments, feel free to question, comment, or message me!
You're fine. The voting standards are mainly to ensure people read the debates before voting, and aim to be fair.
Your vote included plenty of relevant information from the debate to inform your decision. So it holds up.
While my own vote is for the other side, the standards are not to enforce single mindedness, merely the goals of quality and fairness.
Hey, I saw my vote got reported. Did I do anything wrong?
as to the 100 ton standard, heck, spiderman can lift more than that. if only briefly.
https://youtu.be/JC0CcRdRQ04
final crisis and the reset has really thrown off the power scaling. i would have to relearn alot of stuff.
im sorry, i cant really enjoy a debate when i believe information is lacking. im too much of a perfectionist.
also i dont know much about hellbat. but i do know about darkseid, thor and the hulk.
its fun to debate power match ups though, informally.
another thing i wish to point out is. How angry is the hulk? the hulk at his most powerful ie worldbreaker hulk, is capable of destroying worlds in 1 hit.
most of the time hulk loses because he doesnt get that angry or other forces are at play to prevent such emotional escalation.
What did you think of the debate?
Hopefully, you found it interesting.
first off, we need to address something. the darkseid that is encountered is just an avatar of the true darkseid, who is a multiversal god. so hellbat defeating his avatar isnt saying much.
now thor, he is a god, but not on a multiversal level, the power rating of thor is on par with hulk without his hammer (at least before final crisis)
just on this information, let me ask a question. can hellbat defeat the hulk? if yes then possibly he might defeat thor. if no, then he has no chance.
https://youtu.be/fcJ8QmogoXY Darkseid
https://youtu.be/R57iDntD0x0 hulk vs thor
videos are researched by tyler from imaginary axis based on comics and commentary from comic writers, in other words, canon.
Can't remember who did. Sadly, once we mark them as handled we can't look back at the reports.
Bizarre.
I don’t even remember reporting that vote.
**************************************************
>Reported Vote: AleutianTexan // Mod action: Not Removed
>Voting Policy: info.debateart.com/terms-of-service/voting-policy
>Points Awarded: 1 to pro
>Reason for Decision: See Votes Tab.
>Reason for Mod Action:
The vote was found to be sufficient per the site voting policy standards.
**************************************************
Regarding the transitive property, it's neat that Steve Rogers is significantly stronger than the Hulk. I mean Thanos kicks Hulks ass using just raw strength and barely breaks a sweat. Thanos vs Steve was a real contest of strength. So by the power of the transitive property (or more like a bit of bad wring) Steve is at least twice as strong as The Hulk. Conversely, those guys Steve beat up in the elevator, definitely would have taken down big green and jolly.
Another matter is the Conservation of Ninjutsu. One ninja is a threat, but an army of them only has an equal skill to the one divided by the total number of ninjas.
Sorry yall got two alerts, I accidentally sent the first vote as a tie.