Instigator / Pro
M.H.S's avatar
1
M.H.S
1480
rating
4
debates
12.5%
won
Topic
#4132

Batman wearing Hellbat would most likely defeat base Thor in a fight.

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Winner
1
1

After 2 votes and with the same amount of points on both sides...

It's a tie!
Tags
Comics
Marvel
DC
Batman
Thor
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
3
Time for argument
One week
Max argument characters
29,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Winner selection
Voting system
Open
Contender / Con
Sir.Lancelot's avatar
1
Sir.Lancelot
1587
rating
182
debates
55.77%
won
Description

No information

Round 1
M.H.S's avatar
M.H.S
Pro
#1
Hellbat has defeated Darkseid and mangled his face, he didn't feel the effect of Darkseid's punches, and he caught Darkseid's Omega-Beam (which is faster than light) at close range.

Thor was able to pull two levers to destroy a star. He fainted afterwards. He once survived the energy of a neutron star. He almost died. He can only go as fast as his lightning.

So when comparing strength, Hellbat mutilated a god's face. Thor was only able to destroy a star. 

In durability, Hellbat tanked Darkseid's punches, who at multiple occasions defeated Superman, whose weaker version once closed a Black Hole. So basically, Hellbat was hit with more for force than needed to close a Black Hole. And he took zero damage. Thor nearly died when exposed to the energy of a neutron star.

Now when comparing speed, it is important to remember that even though Hellbat is a suit worn by Batman, who isn't really a fast person, Hellbat uses AI technology that let's it move and work based on how Batman would've wished. Because of this, the Hellbat was able to catch the Omega-Beam using a Chaos Shard.  So this means that Hellbat can move faster than light. Thor can only outrun his lightning (lightning is not the same as light, it is 2400 times slower).

This is why I think that Hellbat could defeat Thor.

Sources: 

Sir.Lancelot's avatar
Sir.Lancelot
Con
#2
This is too big of a mismatch. 

Even with all of Hellbat’s feats, he isn’t going to do any serious damage. At the very least, puts up somewhat of a fight or mildly inconveniences Thor but defeats???

Hellbat’s abilities
  • Enhanced Strength
  • Durability
  • Flight
  • Energy Blasts
  • Invisibility
  • Super Vision
  • SuperSpeed
  • Instant Healing
  • Multiversal Teleportation
  • Shape-Shifting
  • Ejecting Any Part
  • Advanced A.I
  • Voice Commands
  • Powerful Chest Insignia Port
  • Shields

Thor’s powers
  • Life-Force
  • Godly Strength
  • Invulnerability
  • Superhuman speed, stamina, and senses. 
  • Regenerative healing factor
  • Longevity
  • Super breath
  • Flight
  • Self Sustenance
  • Earth Control
  • Vast Energy Elimination 
  • Electrokinesis
  • Rain manipulation 
The strengths of the Hellbat are thrown off-balance by Thor’s durability and the suit’s limitations. 

The Hellbat is sort of like a Marvel symbiote in that it drains the host of its metabolism. Thor is not affected by such weaknesses to that extent by virtue of being immortal. 

Thor’s biology, durability, and combat prowess means he wouldn’t even need to fight, just outlast the Hellbat until it self destructs.

Let me ask Pro, what was the Hellbat’s strongest feat? 



Round 2
M.H.S's avatar
M.H.S
Pro
#3
Let's talk about Thor's "durability" since throughout your argument, you used the word twice to attempt to prove that Thor can resist Hellbat.

Your source for Thor, superherodb.com, is highly inaccurate. People can edit information on the site. The moderators are as incompetent as Wikipedia moderation.
How is Base Thor invulnerable?
According the Collins Dictionary: "If someone or something is invulnerable, they cannot be harmed or damaged."

Base Thor is clearly not invulnerable.
In Avengers: Infinity War, Thanos beat him unconscious? In Thor: Ragnarok, Hela stabs his eye out, leaving him blind in one eye. This shows that Thor is not invulnerable. In fact, in both scenarios, he could've died. He survived Hela's attacks because Surtur intervened and killed Hela. He  survived Thanos's might because Thanos already got what he wanted. He had no reason kill Thor. Both Hela and Thanos are way under Darkseid's level,. Thanos with his Infinity Gauntlet is at best, a universal being. Darkseid's avatar form, which he used to fight Hellbat, is a multiversal entity, who as I said in the previous argument, couldn't inflict any damage onto Hellbat. It should be crystal-clear that Thor is neither invulnerable, nor does he have anything near Hellbat's level of durability. 

Here is the scene where Hela stabs Thor in the eye: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV1tBZ-HnvA


Next, let's talk about how Hellbat drains its user's metabolism. You are correct about that fact. However, you fail to understand that the time that Batman nearly died after using the suit, he had traveled to Apokalips, a planet outside of the DC Multiverse, and wrecked Darkseid in his own planet.
How far do you think Batman would be drained in a fight with Thor?

If this is a single round fight between the Thor and Hellbat, Thor would die before he even realizes that he was hit. However, Thor would come back to life eventually. This is where the people's interpretation of winning can differ. Because, after a few round, Batman would be weakened to the extent that if he uses Hellbat again, he would die.

At this point, Hellbat could put on The FInal Batsuit, which gives him so much power that he would only be surpassed by the DC characters: Sphere of Gods, Perpetua, the Monitors, Cosmic Armour Superman, Doctor Manhattan, and The Batman Who Laughs. 


With this much power, Hellbat would be immortal while inside The FInal Batsuit. It can also use enough magic to kill of Thor for good.

However, if Hellbat doesn't do this and dies, I will lose all respect for Batman and spend a whole week crying at the Plot Induced Stupidity that led to Batman's death.
Sir.Lancelot's avatar
Sir.Lancelot
Con
#4
Even still, Thor's durability is just too much for Hellbat to circumvent. Hellbat is designed to eliminate your average god or super-powered being. But Thor is on the top of the food chain and considered one of the most powerful gods out there, coming in second place only to Odin.

Thor and Mjolnir facing the Hellbat is like you chasing down a housefly with a flyswatter. In terms of power, Darkseid is shown to be greater than Thor but when we refer to physical strength, they are equal. Both have the ability to lift over 100 tons, so they are within the same category.
Darkseid has the ability to break Hellbat's wings with minimal effort, so this should be a walk in the park for Thor.

In the first Thor movie, Loki also stated that Thor has the ability to eliminate the entire Jotunheim with just his barehand. An entire planet of Ice Giants, considered one of the most significant threats to Asgardians all ended with only 1% of Thor's power. 
The infamous Hulk slam left Loki dazed and winded but does absolutely nothing to faze Thor. Thor can regularly trade blows with the Incredible Hulk and still win. Hellbat's feats are not on this level.

And if Thor conjured up his wave of lightning bolts, then Hellbat would perish in the ongoing explosion.
Round 3
M.H.S's avatar
M.H.S
Pro
#5
I am not trying to insult you in any way, but from what I just read, I can tell that you clearly don't know enough about this topic. In your argument, you said:
Darkseid is shown to be greater than Thor but when we refer to physical strength, they are equal.
One cannot throw out such an outrageous claim without proper evidence. The evidence you provided:
Both have the ability to lift over 100 tons, so they are within the same category.
There are major flaws in this type of reasoning. It is not  up to you to decide what a "category" is, because these characters are from different realities, Marvel, and DC, and because the creators never made such thing as "categories".
Now let's see these characters' actual strengths. Base Superman has shoulder pressed Earth, which is 5,970,000,000,000,000,000,000 metric tons, or 5.97 sextillion metric tons. This is roughly 6.58 sextillion US tons. So Superman can lift over 65.8 quadrillion times more than the 100 tons you were talking about with medium effort.
It is well established that Darkseid is much stronger than Superman, and this has been proven in countless occasions. Darkseid once even fought the Justice League, including both Wonder Woman and Superman. Guess who won and slaughtered half of the Justice League? It was Darkseid. Now, do you want me to believe that Thor is equal to Darkseid in strength? Because, I won't until you provide sufficient evidence for that.

You also think that Thor can break Hellbat's wings. Frankly, I don't know how strong the wings are, so you might be right. But how exactly do you think that Thor is going to get close to a faster than light entity, and break its wings without getting shredded? 

Also, you are telling me that because Thor could fight Hulk and not get hurt that much, the same would happen with Hulk? If you read anything that I wrote above,  you would know that Hellbat could literally vaporize Hulk with a single blow. A similar thing would probably happen to Thor. And why are you still talking about Thor's durability when I already provided to you two examples of Thor getting wrecked?

You also said that Thor can use lightning bolts to destroy Hellbat. In case you didn't realize yet, Hellbat will dodge that slow 270,000 mph lightning with more ease than an average human dodging a tortoise 10 feet away. But wait, I don't think the Hellbat would get destroyed by some stupid lightning. 

The chances of Thor winning against Hellbat is probably less than 1/1,000,000. Literally.


Sir.Lancelot's avatar
Sir.Lancelot
Con
#6
Overview:
  • Established that Thor and Darkseid are of equal strength. Pro dismisses this. 
  • Demonstrated Thor’s power level by showing his ability to vaporize half a planet. 
  • Maintained that Thor is a superior being, even to your average god. 
  • Showed Thor’s insane durability by his feats of shrugging off Hulk’s attacks. 
  • Highlighted the critical weakness of the Hellbat suit, the wings and the starvation factor.
In conclusion, it would seem that Pro isn’t very familiar with comics or the characters in question. He sure got more than he bargained for here. 
If we do a repeat debate, certain things will need to be established in order for there to be common ground. 

There are major flaws in this type of reasoning. It is not  up to you to decide what a "category" is, because these characters are from different realities, Marvel, and DC, and because the creators never made such thing as "categories".
Pro is actually wrong here.
Both Marvel and DC have character handbooks  that categorize characters by their strength levels. 

Both Darkseid and Thor fall in the ‘Class-100’ category. 

“It is generally accepted that Darkseid is sufficiently strong to lift 100 tons with minimal effort.”
“Most classify Thor in the “Class-100” strength category, which means he can lift well over 100 tons without too much difficulty.”


You also think that Thor can break Hellbat's wings. Frankly, I don't know how strong the wings are, so you might be right. But how exactly do you think that Thor is going to get close to a faster than light entity, and break its wings without getting shredded?
While Hellbat has demonstrated the ability to move as fast as light at maximal speed, he rarely does this because of the toll it takes on his body. 

And while his speed abilities are higher, Hellbat’s perception time is the same as an ordinary man. He won’t be able to anticipate or detect a high-speed attack from Thor. 

Also, you are telling me that because Thor could fight Hulk and not get hurt that much, the same would happen with Hulk? If you read anything that I wrote above,  you would know that Hellbat could literally vaporize Hulk with a single blow. A similar thing would probably happen to Thor. And why are you still talking about Thor's durability when I already provided to you two examples of Thor getting wrecked?
Hulk can’t be vaporized. Even if he could be, he would just re-materialize. The source of Hulk’s mass is infinite gamma energy from different dimensions. 

Plus, if Thor is capable of manhandling The Destroyer with his power level, what chance does Hellbat stand? 

And here’s a video of Thor getting stabbed by Loki and shrugging it off like a mosquito bite. 


You also said that Thor can use lightning bolts to destroy Hellbat. In case you didn't realize yet, Hellbat will dodge that slow 270,000 mph lightning with more ease than an average human dodging a tortoise 10 feet away. But wait, I don't think the Hellbat would get destroyed by some stupid lightning. 

The chances of Thor winning against Hellbat is probably less than 1/1,000,000. Literally.
Because regardless of his speed, his perception time won’t let him react quickly enough. 

And Thor’s lightning would spread amongst the entire planet which would force Hellbat to flee anyway.