Instigator / Pro

dezled

1469

rating

debates

0.0%

won

Topic

#4099

Essential mental health services should be free

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 4 votes and with 25 points ahead, the winner is...

Public-Choice

Tags

Health

Parameters

Publication date: 01.26.2023 06:34PM
Last updated date: 02.10.2023 01:43AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 5,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

Public-Choice

1571

rating

debates

65.79%

won

Description

I'm restarting this debate because it looked interesting, and the last instigator had to ditch the debate. I'll recycle some starting definitions from that discourse and modify some others.

mental health (noun): a person’s condition with regard to their psychological, emotional, and social well-being
services (noun): a) the work performed by one that serves, or c) contribution to the welfare of others -- the most useful M&W definitions for this context
free (adjective): not costing or charging anything
essential (adjective): of the utmost importance

A more contextually useful definition of essential health services might be: "health services that seek to treat a mental condition that dramatically reduces a patient's quality of life and/or services that are necessary to prevent that patient from experiencing a breakdown, or a period of self-harm or suicidality."

Feel free to amend that definition if you think you can make it more concise and workable.

In this context, free will specifically refer to the cost to the person receiving mental health services. The pro position is not arguing that mental health services should cost nothing to anybody.

Round 1

dezled

01.28.2023 08:24PM

Pro

Forfeited

Public-Choice

01.29.2023 06:04PM

Con

Thanks for letting me debate. I am hoping to have a stimulating debate on whether mental health services should be free.

INTRODUCTION:

There is a pandemic of mental health right now globally, which particularly affects young people the most.

As the Center for Disease Control and Prevention and Gallup Polling found:

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported that 41.5% of U.S. adults exhibited symptoms of anxiety or depression in early 2021. Globally, seven in 10 people report that they are struggling or suffering, according to Gallup. [1]

At the forefront of this pandemic are psychiatrists who have the highest suicide rate of any profession. [2]

And I will conclusively prove that making mental health services free will reinstitute mass slavery, which is not beneficial to mental health.

A1 MAKING MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES RE-INSTITUTES MASS SLAVERY

PRO would likely wish users forget that, in order to receive mental health services, it requires the psychiatrist, psychologist, medical doctors, pharmacist, and pharmaceutical companies to work for free, since the definition of free from the debate description is:

not costing or charging anything

This constitutes equivalence with slavery, since, in order for mental health services to be free, this requires mental health professionals to work (or else there would be no mental health services) and it also requires they work at no cost or charge.

Therefore, they are forced to work for no pay, which is slavery, as defined by Merriam-Webster:

the state of a person who is held in forced servitude

These mental health professionals cannot receive any payment of any kind, and therefore are forced into servitude for a job that gives them nothing.

But it isn't just mental health professionals who are forced into slavery. It is also pharmacists, who must dispense the prescriptions without charging anything, and the pharmaceutical companies and employees who must also create the prescriptions without charging anything. The whole entire industry must be forced to work in servitude to the general public completely for free.

This amounts to hundreds of millions of employees who are now forced into slavery, since they must continue their services without cost or charge in order for mental health services to exist.

Now. Some may wonder why the government cannot pay through taxes. Because the constitutes a cost for the services. Doctors must charge the federal government for the services in order to receive payment. But since the debate definition explicitly forbids both charging and costs, there is no possible way for these service providers to receive a payment, because they cannot charge or even have a price or cost.

So this creates mass slavery.

A2 FREE MENTAL HEALTH SERVICES WILL CAUSE AN INCREASE IN SUICIDES

Psychiatrists already have the highest suicide rate of any profession. If we instantly make them slaves by removing their payments for their services, this will compound the issue.

Psychiatrists are in immense amounts of debt from attending college. They also have payments on their cars, houses, and need to eat, buy necessary things, and more. [5]

When this group of people is suddenly forced, against their will to be broke for the test of their lives, since they can't receive any sort of reimbursement, even welfare, because it would constitute a payment, it will cause depression.

Debt is one of the highest causes of extreme depression, as the Royal College of Psychologists states:

How being in debt can make you feel

That everything is out of control and there is nothing you, or anyone else, can do about it.

Hopeless, especially if your debt is getting worse.

Embarrassed to talk to anyone about your financial situation.

Guilty - that the problem is your fault, even though it's been caused by your mental or physical health problems.

Depressed and anxious. [3]

Depression, anxiety, and financial problems are the leading causes of suicide, as the World Health Organization states:

While the link between suicide and mental disorders (in particular, depression and alcohol use disorders) is well established in high-income countries, many suicides happen impulsively in moments of crisis with a breakdown in the ability to deal with life stresses, such as financial problems, relationship break-up or chronic pain and illness. [4]

CONCLUSION:

Forcing mental health services to be free would immediately result in mass slavery and suicides. Since debt and depression and anxiety are all major causes of suicide, this would cause a massive uptick in suicides for the entire mental health profession, from pharmaceutical employees to psychiatrists and pharmacists, who must now all be forced to work for free.

SOURCES:

[1] https://www.gallup.com/workplace/357710/next-global-pandemic-mental-health.aspx

[2] https://medium.com/invisible-illness/psychiatrists-have-the-highest-suicide-rate-of-any-profession-its-time-to-do-something-about-it-7d63e2f2fe21

[3] https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mental-health/problems-disorders/debt-and-mental-health

[4] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/suicide

[5] https://www.nitrocollege.com/blog/med-school-specialties-debt-to-dollars

Round 2

dezled

01.31.2023 06:04PM

Pro

Forfeited

Public-Choice

01.31.2023 07:03PM

Con

PRO has forfeited, vote CON.

Round 3

dezled

02.02.2023 07:03PM

Pro

Forfeited

Public-Choice

02.03.2023 01:43AM

Con

Full forfeiture from PRO. Vote VON.

Public-Choice

02.03.2023 01:58AM

#14

-->

@Barney

@AustinL0926

Thanks guys!

Public-Choice

02.03.2023 01:57AM

#13

-->

@Sir.Lancelot

If it was a full forfeiture I would have. I just don't know enough about boxing to be a good judge.

Sir.Lancelot

02.03.2023 01:54AM

#12

-->

@Public-Choice

Okay.
Could you vote on the Nicolino vs Floyd Mayweather debate too?

Public-Choice

02.03.2023 01:49AM

#11

-->

@Wylted

@Barney

@whiteflame

@Sir.Lancelot

@AustinL0926

Full forfeiture. Please vote if able.

ProfessorS17Jr

01.30.2023 03:10PM

#10

I tried to start a debate on this topic a month ago, but it fell apart. I'm interested to see how this one goes.

PREZ-HILTON

01.26.2023 08:55PM

You asked if I think it's a truism. I would say no not a truism. The debate seems fair to me

PREZ-HILTON

01.26.2023 08:52PM

-->

@dezled

I figured I should link you to this if you feel like I am full of shit.
https://www.mic.com/articles/85201/the-surprising-way-the-netherlands-is-helping-its-disabled-have-sex

PREZ-HILTON

01.26.2023 08:50PM

For example you could say incels have a severe decline in mental health by not getting laid and now we are talking about a debate on whether the government should pay for prostitutes for incels.

It's that crazy either as some countries were recently debating helping handicapped people get laid with government subsidies for mental health reasons.

That is just one example of how it could go off course and then the debate is you defending subsidized blowjobs for autistic people. If that is what you want to debate, fine. I suspect you have a different way you envision the debate playing out though

PREZ-HILTON

01.26.2023 08:47PM

-->

@dezled

severe decline would be what most of the semantics could come down to, based on what both parties mean by severe.

There isn't anything wrong with semantic debates and maybe your opponent won't care to debate semantics, but I could see it turning into that

dezled

01.26.2023 08:42PM

-->

@PREZ-HILTON

@AustinL0926

Do you think it's necessarily a truism given the working definition of essential service I gave in the description? The debate is essentially "health care services that are necessary to prevent either death, crisis or a severe decline in quality of life as a result of a mental health issue should be free to the person receiving the care." I think you could argue either side of that.

Public-Choice

01.26.2023 08:25PM

Eh. Why not lol

PREZ-HILTON

01.26.2023 07:29PM

-->

@AustinL0926

It doesn't have to be a kritik but most of these people will argue that way because they don't view anarchist arguments as tenable

AustinL0926

01.26.2023 07:22PM

-->

@Wylted

Agreed. Under common usage of "essential," this debate is a truism. I could Kritik it, but that would be pretty difficult with only 5000 chars.

PREZ-HILTON

01.26.2023 07:16PM

This will likely devolve into a semantics debate about what qualifies as essential

PREZ-HILTON

02.04.2023 02:58PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Full forfeit

Sir.Lancelot

02.03.2023 01:54AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Forfeiture.

Barney

02.03.2023 01:54AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

The overwhelming strength of pro being right, means I will vote for him regardless of his performance...
/satire

AustinL0926

02.03.2023 01:53AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Full forfeit.