Instigator / Con
Gabidacostta's avatar
0
Gabidacostta
1485
rating
1
debates
0.0%
won
Topic
#3873

Sex, gender identity and pronouns

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
0
3
Better sources
0
2
Better legibility
0
1
Better conduct
0
1

After 1 vote and with 7 points ahead, the winner is...

Mall
Tags
Society
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Standard
Number of rounds
5
Time for argument
Two days
Max argument characters
10,000
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Contender / Pro
Mall's avatar
7
Mall
1420
rating
396
debates
43.94%
won
Description

I wonder: why, instead of identifying as a specific gender, don't we change what is the social construction of gender in society? Why can't a woman be competitive, loud, wear a suit, play rugby, be ambitious, tough, or anything else that in society we would more generally associate with men, without the real need to identify as a man? Why can't a man like to wear dresses, be sensitive, put make-up on, do their nails, without needing to identify as a woman? Why can't we rethink what a man and a woman are, without needing to identify with a gender we are not biologically? What if you are assigned at birth as female but have all sorts of tastes and behaviours that could be identified as male and female, but you don't need to change your gender identification to non-binary because of it?

If we were to reformulate the meaning of being a woman or a man in society, would we need to use other pronouns or could we continue to use the current ones without feeling that they do not represent us?

Why don't we talk about changing the social construct we have for each gender and allow both to do, wear, have, whatever they want, without really needing to have a gender identity different from sex?

I ask these questions from a position of respect where I want to listen and connect with different kinds of opinions, in no way do I aim to underestimate the LGBTQ+ community.

Round 1
Gabidacostta's avatar
Gabidacostta
Con
#1
Forfeited
Mall's avatar
Mall
Pro
#2
"I wonder: why, instead of identifying as a specific gender, don't we change what is the social construction of gender in society? "

No evidence to show what's wrong with the way things are. The significance to doing anything, changing anything is the difference made, the compensation brought forth.

"Why can't a woman be competitive, loud, wear a suit, play rugby, be ambitious, tough, or anything else that in society we would more generally associate with men, without the real need to identify as a man?"

This is a multi-layered question. Each one depends on the circumstance. A woman can't be competitive, loud, wear a suit and etc. if by choice. The rest has to do with the individual's ability. If it's within their ability, what they can or can't do, then it comes down to their desire.

A woman is not a man so to identify as one would be dishonest. Even if there's a special reason for the identification, you run into problems of confusion.

"Why can't a man like to wear dresses, be sensitive, put make-up on, do their nails, without needing to identify as a woman? "

I don't believe there are any such men that would do and be these things without requesting the female identity.

"Why can't we rethink what a man and a woman are, without needing to identify with a gender we are not biologically?"

It's because we eliminate confusion. Changing and mixing up the gender categories can get bewildering. It's suffice to just leave things as is categorizing effeminate men and masculine like women 

"What if you are assigned at birth as female but have all sorts of tastes and behaviours that could be identified as male and female, but you don't need to change your gender identification to non-binary because of it?"

You are a female with masculine tendencies, that's all. Still female, still recognized as, still physically so by nature. That's nice and objective and if it's important for everyone to know like it's some sort of concern, you're a female with masculine traits in your persona.

"If we were to reformulate the meaning of being a woman or a man in society, would we need to use other pronouns or could we continue to use the current ones without feeling that they do not represent us?"

Proves my very point. We have to ask this to sort out an issue after, after further complicating. But my answer, I don't know. To try to sort these complexities and laws instead of living it more basic, challenges the civility going further from civilization.

"Why don't we talk about changing the social construct we have for each gender and allow both to do, wear, have, whatever they want, without really needing to have a gender identity different from sex?"

This part is really democratic and up to the individual person.
Round 2
Gabidacostta's avatar
Gabidacostta
Con
#3
Forfeited
Mall's avatar
Mall
Pro
#4
Forfeited
Round 3
Gabidacostta's avatar
Gabidacostta
Con
#5
Forfeited
Mall's avatar
Mall
Pro
#6
Golly, does anybody out there have an argument?

Two cents, viewpoint , anybody, there's a vacancy.
Round 4
Gabidacostta's avatar
Gabidacostta
Con
#7
Forfeited
Mall's avatar
Mall
Pro
#8
Nothing else to really add without the other side weighing in.

So when there is more time to put aside, we can continue on this topic .
Round 5
Gabidacostta's avatar
Gabidacostta
Con
#9
Forfeited
Mall's avatar
Mall
Pro
#10
Thank you all for your time , present and absent.