Instigator / Pro
9
1387
rating
34
debates
22.06%
won
Topic
#3103
Israel had foreknowledge of and/or helped plan 9/11
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 2 votes and with 5 points ahead, the winner is...
Benjamin
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 4
- Time for argument
- Two weeks
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
14
1774
rating
98
debates
77.55%
won
Description
The debate is really intended to center around common evidence we see for Mossad involvement or foreknowledge of the event popularly known as 9/11. Common evidence of this, is the dancing israeli's who seemed to celebrate the falling of the twjn towers, as well as the suspicious israeli art students in the twin towers, prior to the atta knon 9/11.
If you accept, please argue within the spirit of what the debate was intended. Also please give the gist of the arguments you intend to use jn the comment section before accepting.
Round 1
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The dancing Israeli’s refers to an incident that happened on 9/11, just prior to and after the attack on the twin towers. Here is a summary of how these men were discovered after the attacks.
A Mossad "surveillance team" made quite a public spectacle of themselves on 9-11.The men set up cameras by the Hudson River and trained them on the twin towers.Police received several calls from angry New Jersey residents claiming "middle-eastern" men with a white van were videotaping the disaster with shouts of joy and mockery. (HA'ARETZ 9/17/01)"They were like happy, you know … They didn't look shocked to me" said a witness.[T]hey were seen by New Jersey residents on Sept. 11 making fun of the World Trade Center ruins and going to extreme lengths to photograph themselves in front of the wreckage. (AP and GI)Witnesses saw them jumping for joy in Liberty State Park after the initial impact. Later on, other witnesses saw them celebrating on a roof in Weehawken, and still more witnesses later saw them celebrating with high fives in a Jersey City parking lot. (Yediot America 11/2/01)The FBI sent out an alert to area cops, reading: "Vehicle possibly related to New York terrorist attack . . . Three individuals with van were seen celebrating after initial impact and subsequent explosion." (New York Post)"It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park." (The Record N.J. News)
These men were arrested and held for about 6 months. At least 2 of them were discovered to be Mossad agents (Israeli spies). They originally just claimed to be tourists, until Israel begged for their release. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article44477.htm
Later on an Israeli talkshow, when they were asked why they came to the United States, they said they came to document 9/11, which means they must have had knowledge it was going to happen. http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/02/06/Israel/spies7.html
Pictures of the dancing Israelis can be found here after a foia release. Conveniently their faces are erased from the photos, so we can’t see the happy expressions witnesses mentioned. https://dancingisraelis.com/
Why would Mossad agents be parked close by watching the twin towers and celebrating after the attack. Why would they tell reporters that they were there to document 9/11? Why did they refuse to say if they were on a mission from Mossad and what it was, after asked by American interviewers?
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Employees of the Israeli owned instant messaging company Odigo received texts warning of an imminent attack on the Twin Towers two hours before the attacks happened. A secure service used by Mossad. Who in Israel knew of the attacks 2 hours prior?
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Israel literally warned the U.S. of imminent attacks. It’s true. The biggest reason we know they had foreknowledge is because they quite literally warned the United States government about an impending attack on the twin towers.
Early in August Israel warns the United States
“50 to 200 al-Qaeda terrorists are inside the US and planning an imminent "major assault on the US" aimed at a "large scale target"
Later the same month they send another warning saying the following
“Israel gives the US a list of 19 terrorists inside the US planning an imminent attack, the list names at least four of the hijackers, including Mohamed Atta, Nawaf Alhazmi, Khalid Almihdhar, Marwan Alshehhi”
Conclusion
Israel likely planned the 9/11 attack, but they definitely had foreknowledge and readily admit it.
BULLCRAP!
PRO is propagating a conspiracy theory when he suggests some "photoes" prove that Israeli agents travelled all the way to the US just to cellebrate 9/11. There is little merit in such conspiracy theories, and PRO's argument rellying on such stories (and uggly/suspicious websites created specifically to spread one conspiracy theory) makes it very unreliable and nonsensical.
Israel likely planned the 9/11 attack, but they definitely had foreknowledge and readily admit it.
BULLCRAP!
Israel were tracking terrorists activity in the US, and they knew that SOMETHING was about to happen. Even if it was true that two employees at an Israeli news service received a warning of the imminent attack; that still does not mean that "Israel had FOREKNOWLEDGE of the 9/11 attack". They didn't know that 9/11 was going to happen, lest they would have given the US more accurate warnings. Moreover, a two hour pre-warning does not really count as "preknowledge", lest the USA had "foreknowledge" of 9/11 just because they saw the planes before they crashed. No, "foreknowledge" means accurate knowledge about the future in a reasonable time frame; thusly access to the plans about the future. Israel as a country did not know that a plane would crash into world trade center in 9/11 2001, so the resolution fails.
Round 2
Forfeited
My opponent has forfeited, thus leaving my R1 critique of his argument unrebutted. Furthermore, he leaves his BoP unfulfilled, as he has not provided arguments that ISRAEL knew about 9/11, only some vague speculation about certain random Israeli's possibly knowing something. The fact is, even if Israel warned the USA, that in no way proves that the resolution is true. The resolution claims Israel helped plan, or knew about, 9/11. PRO'S R1 argument tells us that Israel were trying to prevent a terrorist attack, giving more and more accurate warnings about the imminent threat as they tracked terrorist activity. If anything, this tells us that Israel didn't "help make or know about the 9/11 attacks", as otherwise they would not have needed to track the terrorists. Additionally, there is another great self-contradiction in PRO'S argument. If it is true that Israel knew about the attacks before they happened, then they certainly would have given more accurate warnings or none at all, depending on their desired outcome.
SUMMARY
PRO fails to fullfill his BoP. His argument is weak, backed with poor sources and contains inconsistencies and inherent contradictions.
CONCLUSION
The resolution stands unsupported. In lack of sufficient evidence, default to CON, as non-belief is the standard first reaction to conspiracy theories, and also the right choice in a competitive debating environment.
Round 3
Forfeited
If you wanna use a debate to prove a conspiracy theory, then forfeiting is not a good strategy.
Round 4
Forfeited
Extend
You should have said that easily disprovable stuff in the debate. Instead you dropped arguments.
Yes, they knew about Al-Qaida activity in the USA. However, they did not know that a plane would crash into Twin Towers 9/11 2001 --- lest they would have warned the US in detail. You make an error in calling a "warning about the imminent danger", "foreknowledge about the specifics of that danger". You do realize that Israel had no way of having "foreknowledge" about the attack, as they were not collaborating with Al-Qaida (lest you have evidence to the contrary). Israel has been fighting terrorism as well, and has a lot more experience than the US, and that is why their "warning" was quicker and more accurate than that of the USA, but that doesn't mean that Israel knew about 9/11 before it happened --- it only means they were trying to figure out what was going on.
What about this one where israel admits foreknowledge
"Israel literally warned the U.S. of imminent attacks. It’s true. The biggest reason we know they had foreknowledge is because they quite literally warned the United States government about an impending attack on the twin towers.
Early in August Israel warns the United States
“50 to 200 al-Qaeda terrorists are inside the US and planning an imminent "major assault on the US" aimed at a "large scale target"
Later the same month they send another warning saying the following
“Israel gives the US a list of 19 terrorists inside the US planning an imminent attack, the list names at least four of the hijackers, including Mohamed Atta, Nawaf Alhazmi, Khalid Almihdhar, Marwan Alshehhi”
What do you mean? I adressed both of your arguments, if they can be called arguments.
I didnt expect this debate to be this easy. You had 2 weeks to respond, why did you take 5 minutes to respond and only address the decoy arguments and ignore the actual agument?
I don't have the energy to debate formally anymore. I just prefer forums and messaging. On debates, people try to win. I prefer to try to learn.
Than you should have accepted the debate
I don't think Israel did 9/11.