Instigator / Pro
42
1417
rating
158
debates
32.59%
won
Topic
#2559
If the Christian God was Put on Trial, it would be Justified to Judge Him Guilty of Crimes
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 6 votes and with 30 points ahead, the winner is...
seldiora
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Two days
- Max argument characters
- 5,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Multiple criterions
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
12
1702
rating
574
debates
67.86%
won
Description
Let's assume that the Christian God and all the stories written about him were true. I am saying, based on the events occurred, he can be judged guilty of our crimes we have set for humans. This is a fair trial set in the US with jury and judge. Also assume that the idea that God is omniscient, omnibenevolent and omnipotent are all up to question and debatable. We are only judging the events themselves, not the claims made about God's sinless nature.
I am saying it is justified to judge him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt and attempt to punish (or set limits) according to law.
Round 1
1) Murder, manslaughter charges
vocativ notes, "There are 160 separate killing sprees in the Bible for which God is demonstrably to blame. That number includes every slaughter in the Old and New testaments, and also in Aprocrypha, the contested books which are included in the Roman Catholic Bible but disregarded from the Hebrew version. A total of 2,821,364 deaths are specifically enumerated in scripture as either directly orchestrated by God, or carried out with his assistance or approval. " He has also killed countless enemies of the Israelites without permission by law, and only approval of the people due to being their creator. "The mere act of complaining caused him to unleash snakes, fire, and a plague. When the Israelites complained about a lack of food in Numbers 21:6, God sent “fiery serpents” to kill them. When 250 of Korah’s followers complain that Moses was putting himself on a pedestal, God has Moses ask them to burn incense and then burns them all to death: “There came out a fire from the Lord, and consumed the two hundred and fifty men that offered incense.” (16:35) When 14,700 people complained about all of the people the Lord had killed for complaining, he sent a plague to kill them, too. “There is wrath gone out from the Lord; the plague has begun.” (14:46)"
2) Negligence
The law defines negligence as: "A failure to behave with the level of care that someone of ordinary prudence would have exercised under the same circumstances. The behavior usually consists of actions, but can also consist of omissions when there is some duty to act (e.g., a duty to help victims of one's previous conduct). " Throughout the bible, he has indeed saved many people, but he fails to display the same level of mercy in real life events. If Christian God truly existed, he would be guilty of negligence due to letting millions of people die in the world war's, of diseases, with suffering, despite having the power to stop them. A parent has the responsibility take care of their children, and as the Bible notes that God created humans, he is the ancestor of us all, and must be responsible for every one of our actions, especially with his displayed massive power over nature and ability to give people knowledge, with the Forbidden Fruit.
3) Giving Cruel and Unusual Punishment
Never have we punished people with torture for their crimes, much less for eternal. But it is apparent that God punishes mere inaction. The Bible has stated. in Hebrews 11:6 that says without faith it is impossible to please God. Various sites have discussed "divine justice" verses malicious people. But I find it hard to believe that any amount of suffering caused by a single lifetime will lead to equivalent of infinite punishment. These days our justice system is criticized heavily for focusing too much on revenge and punishment rather than reformation (as Europe has far fewer returning punishments). If anything, God should calmly talk to them and reason with his almighty knowledge to try to rehabilitate the criminals. Being burning for an eternity in order to become a believer in good and righteous seems contradictory, as you would fear God for his pain and power imposed on you, rather than genuinely reforming, seeing what you did wrong, and becoming a good person. Consider even corporal punishment, which is effective, but leads to mistreatment, and fails after the parents lose control of the child. The "divine justice" proposed in hell, torturing millions upon billions of people, is certainly beyond a reasonable doubt to prove that god is guilty of crimes against humanity.
Forfeited
Round 2
4. Religious Slaughter
God had demanded that Abraham sacrifice his son for him. Then he changed his mind and sacrifices a lamb just to prove devotion. Official ruling on animal sacrifice says: "1. Does Ch. 828, F.S., which prohibits the unnecessary killing of animals, prohibit a religious group from sacrificing an animal in a religious ritual or practice?
2. Does the 1986 amendment to Ch. 828, F.S., which permits the enactment of any ordinance identical to Ch. 828, preempt and hence prohibit a municipality from enacting an ordinance making religious animal sacrifice unlawful, even if such ordinance does not conflict with Ch. 828?
SUMMARY
1. Unless and until the Legislature modifies the statutes, it is my opinion that Florida law, specifically s. 828.12, F.S., prohibits the sacrificial killing of animals other than for the primary purpose of food consumption.
2. Based on my response to Question One, it is my opinion that a municipality may adopt an ordinance prohibiting the religious sacrifice of animals within the city pursuant to s. 828.27, F.S. (1986 Supp.).
On June 9, 1987, the City Council for the City of Hialeah unanimously adopted an ordinance identical to the provisions of Ch. 828, F.S. The ordinance apparently was adopted because a Santeria church recently opened in the city. Santeria is a religious group which uses the sacrificial killing of animals during many of its religious rituals.[1] A question has arisen whether such animal sacrifices, if not carried out for the primary purpose of food consumption, are prohibited by Ch. 828 and thus by city ordinance.
Section 828.12, F.S., provides in pertinent part:
"Whoever . . . unnecessarily or cruelly . . . kills any animal, or causes the same to be done . . . is guilty of a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or by a fine of not more than $5,000, or both."
End of all Charges
Cross Examination
(as this is similar to a court case, I trust that Con binds himself to telling the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth)
How does con plead to the charges of murder and leading people to murder others?
How does con plead to being responsible for billions of people but choosing no actions to help people in poverty despite knowledge of such?
How does con plead to giving cruel and unusual punishment, eternal torture in hell undeserved, especially to atheists and perhaps criminals who have already been punished in their life time?
How does con plead to the animal sacrifice done by Abraham and encouraged by god?
Is it true that God turned Lot's wife into a salt pillar, denying her entire humanity?
Forfeited
Round 3
Your honor, the witness’s lawyer has refused to answer to these charges. As a result, I demand you judge the defendant GUILTY. He has slaughtered countless men, done nothing for child support, tortured the dead, and asked for animal sacrifice. According to his very own personal ideals, God deserves to “go to hell”, for lack of better description. I believe there is thorough evidence to punish him even on our basic laws and ideas. This powerful entity needs to be talked to and reasoned with, as soon as possible.
Court adjourned! Vote pro.
Pro plagiarised his entire argument lmfao. I don't care though. I am busy and tired and this debate would take effort maybe. Idk, basically god is good jo matter what, you're jot allowed to judge him and if your iury convicts him of his crimes, he'll smite you with fury... So... Yeah it comes down to semantics of 'justified' as well as a ton of Bible verses, it's boring for me, I am sorry.
You're right. At least half of his R2 is taken verbatim from that link.
Anyway I don't care. We must learn to lose in order to relish as we win.
http://www.myfloridalegal.com/ago.nsf/printview/2CF2A00641F0F180852565720056A3AA
I'll link you to each section what he plagiarised. Those two URLs are the first two.
Oops, you're right. I'd forgotten the exact definition of an FF.
https://www.vocativ.com/news/309748/all-the-people-god-kills-in-the-bible/index.html
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/negligence
It's not FF you can vote conduct though
His entire argument is copy paste. He committed full on plagiarism.
It is the height of human arrogance to ignore all the atrocities we have committed against one another, even in the last century, and then attempt to put God on trial for being unjust.
If God is real (and He is), and if the stories in the Bible are true (and they are), then it is He who is the Lawmaker, the Prosecutor, the Judge, and the Executioner. When humans decide to make their own laws, we get slavery and genocide. And why not? More evolved humans should eliminate less evolved ones to advance the species, right?
You would be wise to look at your own heart before you accuse God of wrongdoing and presume to act as judge over Him.
was this deliberate or just a waste of a good debate?
Really interesting argument