Instigator / Pro

seldiora

1417

rating

158

debates

32.59%

won

Topic

#2145

The perfect pear is the best stand alone episode of mlp:fim

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 4 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...

seldiora

Tags

Parameters

Publication date: 06.29.2020 01:47PM
Last updated date: 08.02.2020 06:45PM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 5,000
Voting period: Two weeks
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

Crocodile

1436

rating

debates

38.64%

won

Description

Best: highest quality

Mlp:fim: my little pony: friendship is magic

The Perfect Pear: s7 e13

Stand alone: not part of a two parter, three parter so on and so forth

Burden of proof is shared.

Round 1

seldiora

07.14.2020 08:24PM

Pro

Forfeited

Crocodile

07.14.2020 09:09PM

Con

My opponent has not been active.

I think he has left the site

Round 2

seldiora

07.16.2020 04:51AM

Pro

oh, sorry. Didn't notice this had been accepted.

Anyhow, my argument is short. Perfect Pear is the best episode of my little pony, because of its simple yet excellent story. Everyone knows Romeo and Juliet, a classic Shakespeare play that basically infers about biases and rooted assumptions. Even the Bible tells us "everyone wants to be loved" (https://www.proverbs31.org/read/devotions/full-post/2017/10/10/everyone-wants-to-be-loved). Therefore, it can be said that the episode is most people can sympathize with. The message is also fantastic as it tells us to look past what others assume is true and listen to your own heart. Through the episode, it's clear Grandfather pear regret his actions he took against his daughter, and encourages people to rethink their biases.

The ending of Perfect Pear is also incredibly powerful. As seen through many clips (https://youtu.be/XpXYWfy5LSU?t=1363, https://youtu.be/eAAQa24YdIk?t=2312), countless fans have cried over the reunion and the final scene. Unless my opponent shows an episode which has powerful impact as this one, then I'd say Perfect Pear is the best. Finally, Perfect Pear has the highest rating out of any MLP episode ever (https://www.ratingraph.com/tv-shows/my-little-pony-friendship-is-magic-ratings-38803/). It's obvious that fans like it. Even if "best" is subjective, the quality which people rated this clearly shows that it's the best episode.

Crocodile

07.17.2020 05:47PM

Con

Thanks selidora,

Anyhow, my argument is short. Perfect Pear is the best episode of my little pony, because of its simple yet excellent story. Everyone knows Romeo and Juliet, a classic Shakespeare play that basically infers about biases and rooted assumptions. Even the Bible tells us "everyone wants to be loved" (https://www.proverbs31.org/read/devotions/full-post/2017/10/10/everyone-wants-to-be-loved). Therefore, it can be said that the episode is most people can sympathize with. The message is also fantastic as it tells us to look past what others assume is true and listen to your own heart. Through the episode, it's clear Grandfather pear regret his actions he took against his daughter, and encourages people to rethink their biases.

My opponent argues that the Perfect Pear is the best episode because of it's excellent story. However, he is not the authoritative figure on that. All I must do is prove that in all cases, The Perfect Pear is the best.

Being "the best", is impossible. In order to be "the best", you must be "the best" at every aspect.

The Perfect Pear is not the "best" and being the "worst".

So, if it is not the best at being bad, that means the Perfect Pear is not the very best MLP:FIM episode.

As I said before, the word "best" is paradoxical, and there is no way to prove it.

------------------------------------------------

Lets take a look at the definition of best:

"the highest quality".

That means, The Perfect Pear must be the best at every quality. Like I said before, this is impossible.

The Perfect Pear is NOT the best at being the worst. You can provide multiple cases in which the Perfect Pear isn't the best-

It is not the best at supporting Donald Trump
It is not the best at supporting Racism
It is not the best at supporting Suicide.

Therefore, it can't possibly be the best. This is because the best is completely paradoxical.

I rest my case.

Round 3

seldiora

07.19.2020 05:47PM

Pro

Forfeited

Crocodile

07.19.2020 06:45PM

Con

My opponent has full forfeited. I declare victory.

Barney

08.02.2020 05:03PM

#26

NOTICE: only 2 hours remain for voting.

Conduct only votes are warranted without analysis of other points due to >=50% forfeiture.

Barney

08.02.2020 03:29AM

#25

-->

@Crocodile

It's not quite a full forfeiture... That said, I'm going to edit my vote to tie arguments. I expected many conduct only votes for the >50% forfeiture.

Crocodile

08.02.2020 02:34AM

#24

wtf ima lose

:((((

Crocodile

08.02.2020 02:34AM

#23

-->

@Barney

Shouldn't I automatically win this due to the FF?

Barney

08.02.2020 12:51AM

#22

NOTICE: Less than a day remains for voting.

Barney

07.27.2020 05:29AM

#21

-->

@Username

Sorry for the late reply, it actually had to be discussed in moderation chat.

It's pretty close to an FF, but technically not quite. I'm literally tossing this type of thing into the next referendum, to settle it once and for all.

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4574-upcoming-meep-voting-policy

Barney

07.26.2020 10:29PM

#20

-->

@Trent0405

**************************************************
>Reported Vote: Trent0405 // Mod action: Removed
>Points Awarded: 0:7; All points to Con.
>Reason for Decision: See Comments Tab.
>Reason for Mod Action:
People forfeit by degrees. Any unexcused forfeited rounds merits a conduct loss. However, for less than a 50% forfeiture, arguments must still be voted on or justified as a tie.
A full-forfeit debate is defined as a debate that has no argument presented by one side following the opening round, resulting in all subsequent rounds being forfeited. When this is the case, these debates are considered full-forfeit debates and are not moderated unless a voter votes for the forfeiting side.
**************************************************

This falls right on the line between borderline and needing to be deleted, and even with internal discussion us moderators are unsure. With a week left to vote, I am opting for deleting it to give you maximum opportunity to revote if you so choose. Given the content of the debate, it could be a single sentence to justify arguments (if voting arguments, otherwise they need not be mentioned).

Also I'm tossing a related question into the next referendum, to avoid this issue in future.
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4574-upcoming-meep-voting-policy

Barney

07.26.2020 09:49PM

#19

Trent0405
7 days ago
Criterion Pro Tie Con Points
Better arguments ✗ ✗ ✔ 3 points
Better sources ✗ ✗ ✔ 2 points
Better spelling and grammar ✗ ✗ ✔ 1 point
Better conduct ✗ ✗ ✔ 1 point
Reason:
Full Forfeit.

Barney

07.25.2020 09:44PM

#18

-->

@Intelligence_06

I'll have you know when you combine Lincoln and Washington, you get the ultimate best at being a Korean Businessman!

Intelligence_06

07.25.2020 06:39PM

#17

-->

@Barney

"How dare you"?

Is it false? No one that has walked on the soil of Earth has been proven omnipotent. Even JESUS wasn't as omnipotent as God. Lincoln and Washington is no God and being good at politics is enough for them to be the GOAT of the field.

Username

07.25.2020 06:33PM

#16

-->

@Barney

Does this count as an FF

Barney

07.25.2020 06:32PM

#15

-->

@Intelligence_06

How dare you insinuate that Lincoln and Washington aren't the best at being a Korean Businessman! 😉

PressF4Respect

07.19.2020 09:11PM

#14

-->

@Barney

Thanks

Barney

07.19.2020 09:10PM

#13

-->

@PressF4Respect

"2/3 of a falafel"

I love your vote!

Intelligence_06

07.17.2020 06:43PM

#12

-->

@Crocodile

He only needs to prove that a certain episode is the Best relatively, and it doesn't need to for all aspects.

Lincoln and Washington are considered best presidents, but they aren't the best at being a Korean Businessman, nor are they the best at ultimately suppressing freedom. That still doesn't make them NOT the best presidents.

Intelligence_06

07.17.2020 06:39PM

#11

-->

@Crocodile

wow

Crocodile

07.16.2020 12:52PM

#10

-->

@Intelligence_06

welp he made an argument

Intelligence_06

07.16.2020 12:36PM

-->

@Crocodile

No, he instigated

Crocodile

07.16.2020 11:21AM

-->

@Intelligence_06

welp, he accepted

Crocodile

07.12.2020 10:58PM

-->

@Intelligence_06

I mean, i still have one argument ready, in case he comes back

Intelligence_06

07.12.2020 10:29PM

-->

@Crocodile

I mean, as much as I crave position and rating, if I am only accepting things taking advantage for forfeitures, then I will be called out as a coward.

Crocodile

07.12.2020 10:21PM

-->

@Intelligence_06

haha free elo boost go brr

Intelligence_06

07.12.2020 10:12PM

-->

@Crocodile

https://i.redd.it/04d5nlitt2y31.png

That describes me right now.

Crocodile

07.12.2020 09:57PM

-->

@Intelligence_06

nah i just like dem free wins

Intelligence_06

07.12.2020 08:32PM

-->

@Crocodile

Judging from that PRO is off for 6 days, are you taking advantage of FF, or do you really understand children's cartoons?

User_2006

06.29.2020 01:56PM

-->

@seldiora

What do you mean by "best"?

I am most likely NOT accepting this debate because I am not into children's cartoons, but how to define it?

Barney

08.02.2020 04:01AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

In short, con's Kritik falls flat. That said, while it was non-sequitur to the resolution and argument it tried to challenge, it fell flat without pro in fact challenging it when there was opportunity... So arguments remain tied.

Pro offered an episode, with ample evidence of it being high quality (I'm a jerk, so I'll snicker at people crying about it... still, I can appreciate that they see something special in it), and producing some good in the world by encouraging fans to do better regarding biases.
Con offers the counter that it wasn't the worst episode. This introduces no point of comparison for another episode to do better (even at being the worst via supporting suicide).

The ratings graph was a great source, particularly as it immediately opened the door for con to find another episode better on some metric; which made the cheap tactic even worse.

And I am outright surprised con is not winning this due to pro's >50% forfeitures, which automatically earn negative conduct without need for argument analysis.

RationalMadman

07.25.2020 08:50PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Sources and Conduct should be self-explanatory. Only one side used sources and only one side forfeited with nothing else worth mentioning in either category.

I believe Con won this debate via arguments almost solely due to Pro not posting in Round 3. To me, no matter how obviously wrong a Kritik angle is, I can't just go ahead and 'infer the wrongness' if it's not explicitly ruled out.

Con argues that to be the highest quality standalone episode, the quality must be shown to be in all areas and categories possible for the show to be best in. While Con never brings forward episodes of MLP that surpass the episode with regards to Donald Trump, Racism or whatever else he brings up, Pro never explains on what specific criteria we are to base 'highest quality'.

I think 'not the best at being the worst' was actually a powerful point to bring up but that again is down to Pro never replying to it. This simple idea completely thrusts the resolution to default to being a paradox.

PressF4Respect

07.19.2020 07:26PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

2/3 of a falafel

Intelligence_06

07.19.2020 07:12PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

PRO provided arguments that represent the correct context of the phrase "The best", especially when it is used comparatively to other episodes of My Little Pony. CON is arguing as if said episode is the perfect creation, the almighty God of things, and then disprove it, when in fact, CON's job is to disprove that said episode is only the best comparatively to others. CON's argument, at this point, can be either illustrated as semantic exploitation or the wrong interpretation of the topic. Nothing personal to Crocodile but I think PRO won arguments.

PRO used arguments, reviews, reaction clips to demonstrate why said episode is the best. However, CON used a very controversial and non-contextly theory and "proof" without using a single source to prove that it is, indeed, correct. PRO won sources.

S&G: Both sides coherent, Good job.

Conduct: PRO has forfeited more. Points to CON.