Instigator / Pro

Walrus

1486

rating

debates

0.0%

won

Topic

#1688

A gun in the home will make you and your family less safe

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 3 votes and with 21 points ahead, the winner is...

sigmaphil

Tags

Philosophy

Parameters

Publication date: 11.26.2019 11:11PM
Last updated date: 12.14.2019 01:53AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Two days
Max argument characters: 10,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

sigmaphil

1557

rating

debates

71.43%

won

Description

if you want to be safe , buy an alarm system , or a big dog, or a baseball bat, or a good dead bolk lock, or better yet move to a safer neighborhood , buying a gun is literally suicide https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/do-guns-make-us-safer-science-suggests-no/

Round 1

Walrus

11.29.2019 07:20PM

Pro

Guns can kill you in three ways: homicide, suicide, and by accident. Owning a gun or having one readily accessible makes all three more likely. One meta-analysis ”found strong evidence for increased odds of suicide among persons with access to firearms compared with those without access and moderate evidence for an attenuated increased odds of homicide victimization when persons with and without access to firearms were compared.” The latter finding is stronger for women, a reminder that guns are also a risk factor for domestic violence.

I make my own observation s to be honesty in the name of full disclosure i used to be a member of the NRA i did from 1988 to about 2000 i owned many guns handguns and semi automatic rifles with a military style look i was preparing for whatever crazy angry white men are arming up for, then i got help , therapy and proper medication , once i became less psychotic i realized what the whole gun culture was about , anger fear and paranoia, nothing about gun ownership is healthy or normal, stable people don't prepare for armegedden thats why we have police and military in a civilization,thats not to say there are not legitmate reason to own a gun hunting, target shooting, collecting and self defense, yes self defense, but other societies that do allow guns, require safety factors backround checks licensing limits on ammo magazine capacity etc, medical check ups training, registration this libertarian wet dream is a night mare

screaming freedom and waving the constitution around like some meth addict or alex jones screaming about gay frogs? thats not an argument for gun rights , its proof you are not mature enough to own a gun , and for the millionth time there is no right to own a gun, there never was, nor should there be, it is a privieldge you earn through good conduct

sigmaphil

12.01.2019 06:53PM

Con

Please note: It has come to my understanding that my opponent has been banned and will not be participating any further in this debate. However, since they did post their first argument, I feel it important to honor my opponent and DebateArt and respond to their argument as I would if they were not banned.

----------------------------

I would like to thank my opponent for this opportunity to debate them on this important topic.

Before we begin I wanted to propose clarifications to the resolution. as it stands the resolution is

Resolved: A gun in the home will make you and your family less safe.

Less safe from What? I propose we add "... than a gun not in the home." Therefore the resolution would be better stated,

Resolved: A gun in the home will make you and your family less safe than a gun not in the home.

A minor addendum, but I think it brings closure to the resolution.

-------

Let me begin with my rebuttal then I will proceed with my opening argument.

Rebuttal

Guns can kill you in three ways: homicide, suicide, and by accident.

Forgive me for being cliché but "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." A gun is an inanimate object with no emotion or ability in and of itself to fire a round of ammo.

Owning a gun or having one readily accessible makes all three more likely. One meta-analysis ”found strong evidence for increased odds of suicide among persons with access to firearms compared with those without access and moderate evidence for an attenuated increased odds of homicide victimization when persons with and without access to firearms were compared.” The latter finding is stronger for women, a reminder that guns are also a risk factor for domestic violence.

There are several problems with this argment.

1. The meta anlysis was done on guns that are readily accessible in the home. The resolution does not lcarifyb whether the gun in the home is readily accessible or not. The study may have been quite different if it were done in homes where the gun owner had good sense and had their guns, for example, locked in a safe.

2. The second source is taken from a liberal biased website, which is anti-gun and has an agenda. Therefore I take issue with the statement, "a reminder that guns are also a risk factor for domestic violence."

I make my own observation s to be honesty in the name of full disclosure i used to be a member of the NRA i did from 1988 to about 2000 i owned many guns handguns and semi automatic rifles with a military style look i was preparing for whatever crazy angry white men are arming up for, then i got help , therapy and proper medication , once i became less psychotic i realized what the whole gun culture was about , anger fear and paranoia, nothing about gun ownership is healthy or normal, stable people don't prepare for armegedden thats why we have police and military in a civilization,thats not to say there are not legitmate reason to own a gun hunting, target shooting, collecting and self defense, yes self defense, but other societies that do allow guns, require safety factors backround checks licensing limits on ammo magazine capacity etc, medical check ups training, registration this libertarian wet dream is a night mare
screaming freedom and waving the constitution around like some meth addict or alex jones screaming about gay frogs? thats not an argument for gun rights , its proof you are not mature enough to own a gun , and for the millionth time there is no right to own a gun, there never was, nor should there be, it is a privieldge you earn through good conduct

With all due respect to my opponent, I think it would be better for us to approach this topic without agendas or biases. I realize that we all bring biases to debates, but let's try to debate the resolution with facts and not emotions that fuel those biases.

My Opening Statement

Why Guns in a home do not make the home less safe than a gun not in the home.

Argument 1: "Guns do not kill people. People Kill People." Therefore people are the cause of a home being unsafe not a gun.

1. A gun is an inanimate object

2. A gun cannot load itself

3. A gun cannot aim itself.

4. A gun cannot fire itself.

5. A gun does not accidentally fire itself. Source (Paragraph 3).

I will bring up at least one more argument in the next round.

Over to my opponent...

Round 2

Walrus

12.03.2019 06:53PM

Pro

Forfeited

sigmaphil

12.04.2019 05:03AM

Con

My apologies to my opponent I grossly misspelled a word in the first round.

1. The meta anlysis was done on guns that are readily accessible in the home. The resolution does not lcarifyb ...

-It should say, The resolution does not clarify...

Rebuttal

-Nothing to rebut since my opponent has forfeited.

Argument

-As promised I wanted to add another argument in this round.

Why guns in a home do not make the home less safe than a gun not in the home.

Argument 2: Guns need ammo and person to operate it. If there is no ammo in the house than a gun cannot be fired and therefore the home is as safe as not having a gun in the house.

...to clarify the argument further

1. The resolution does not state that the home has ammo along with the gun in the home, only that there is a gun in the home.

2. A gun alone is not enough to make a home unsafe.

3. To make a gun unsafe it requires several things that were not mentioned in the resolution they are...

A gun that is accessible

i.e. not in a gun safe.

A person that knows how to disengage the safety mechanisms of the gun.

"There are many types of safeties on today’s modern handguns. " - source

An unsafe person.

A person with mental illness
A person not versed in gun safety
An irresponsible person
A person with nefarious ambitions.

Ammo that is accessible and in the home.

i.e. not in a gun safe or near the gun

Responsible gun owners store ammo securely - source

Knowledge of where the ammo is in the home and the ability to access it

this limits the user to the gun owner who would have keys or combination lock information.

Over to opponent...

Round 3

Walrus

12.06.2019 05:03AM

Pro

Forfeited

sigmaphil

12.06.2019 03:04PM

Con

-My opponent has forfeited Round 3, so I extend my arguments.

Closing Statement

I want to thank my opponent for the opportunity to debate them. It's a shame they were banned after the debate started. I wish them well.

sigmaphil

12.14.2019 01:53AM

#16

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@RationalMadman

@Barney

@Trent0405

Thanks for voting!

Barney

12.03.2019 07:04PM

#15

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@sigmaphil

Enjoy your debate. Literally "extend" would be enough from here forward, given that your opponent will FF. However, if you want to test out different formatting options or anything, this is a good opportunity for that.

sigmaphil

12.02.2019 10:27PM

#14

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@Barney

I would like to continue with this debate since I had put thought and energy into my rebuttal before it became apparent to me that my opponent had been banned. Call me crazy, lol.

Barney

12.02.2019 08:46AM

#13

***
Regarding the report on this debate: Walrus was confirmed as an alt of a banned user, but not until days into this debate. Further, there is no reason to believe the contender had knowledge of the issue with Walrus; whereas there is strong reason to suspect he already began to draft his counter arguments. It would be unfair to him to delete this debate unless he requests such.

The reported comment: Walrus was already banned before the report was made; there doesn't seem to be much benefit in doing anything about it (we're of course open to suggestions...).
-Ragnar, DM

P.S.
On a related note, I accepted a debate with Walrus to test him due to the suspicion. Me having suspicions and entering it willingly, did have said debate deleted even a full two rounds into it.
***

sigmaphil

11.30.2019 12:44AM

#12

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@Barney

Okay, understood. Thanks.

Barney

11.30.2019 12:43AM

#11

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@sigmaphil

It was determined he was a previously banned user. He won’t be back on this account.

sigmaphil

11.29.2019 11:44PM

#10

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@Walrus

I see a line through your name. What does that mean? Are we still having the debate?

Walrus

11.29.2019 07:23PM

buying a gun to make you safe is like smoking cigarette to be healthy sure you may not die of cancer right away but it certianly doesnt make your lif style any healthier so why risk it?

Walrus

11.29.2019 07:22PM

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@sigmaphil

when i said literally suicide i meant it more as a metaphor

Walrus

11.29.2019 07:21PM

becaue nine time sout of ten you get sad and shoot yourself or drunk and angry and shoot the wife kids or the neighbors dog, and the burlgars down the street laughing at you cracker ass

sigmaphil

11.29.2019 05:47PM

-->

@Walrus

I accept the challenge! Good luck friend!

Deb-8-a-bull

11.29.2019 05:33PM

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@oromagi

I've a glue gun in the shed, if i use it to seal all my doors and windows up, You could say quite the opposite.

A nail gun would surly secure a door or a window , thus making you some what safer.

Sittings in your front yard with a radar gun day after day will slow traffic down thus making it safer.

And ya got your Staple guns, corking gun, starting gun. And many others that would probably improve the safety of ones home.

oromagi

11.29.2019 04:51PM

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@Deb-8-a-bull

Especially a flare gun on a house boat.

sigmaphil

11.29.2019 03:39PM

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@Walrus

"buying a gun is literally suicide"

-That's a bit extreme. Plenty of people own guns and they are still alive.

Walrus

11.29.2019 12:05AM

pretty much

Deb-8-a-bull

11.28.2019 04:34AM

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@Walrus

A flare gun on a house boat?

RationalMadman

12.11.2019 11:43AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

FF ⠀

Barney

12.06.2019 09:32PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

FF. .

Trent0405

12.06.2019 07:52PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Full forfeit.