Instigator / Pro

crossed

1377

rating

debates

25.81%

won

Topic

#1268

God measured everything out

Status

Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics

Better arguments

Better sources

Better legibility

Better conduct

After 2 votes and with 5 points ahead, the winner is...

oromagi

Tags

Science

Parameters

Publication date: 08.15.2019 11:05AM
Last updated date: 09.01.2019 06:46AM
Type: Standard
Number of rounds: 3
Time for argument: Three days
Max argument characters: 4,000
Voting period: One week
Point system: Multiple criterions
Voting system: Open

Contender / Con

oromagi

1922

rating

117

debates

97.44%

won

Description

No information

Round 1

crossed

08.15.2019 11:56AM

Pro

My right arm is 30 inches long.

My left arm is exactly the same size at 30 inches.

god measured my arms out so they would be the exact same size

My right leg is 36 inches long

My left leg is exactly 36 inches long

god measured my legs out so they would both be the exact same size

My right foot is 10 inches long

My left foot is 10 inches long

God measured my foot out so they would be exactly the same

My right ear is 3 inches long

My left ear is 3 inches long

My hands are exactly the same size. just put them together. but the exact size is 6 1/2

My middle finger on my right hand is 4 inches my left middle finger is 4 inches

My thumb on right hand is 2 inches my left thumb is 2 inches.

My 4 finger on right hand is 3/1/2 my 4th finger on my left hand is 3/12.

god measured it out this is constant with all fingers

god measured them out

God measured out my ears so they would be the same

My left eye is 1 inch big

My right eye is 1 inch big

God measured my eyes out

My top lips are 3 inches

My bottom lips are 3 inches

God measured this out

My right nose hole is the exact same size as my left nose hole. Because god measured it.

my right ear hole is the exact same size as my left ear hole. This is because god measured it

look in a mirror this is true

my nose is in exact middle of my face. if you measure from my right of my face it takes 2 inches to reach my nose. If you measure from the left side of my face it takes 2 inches to reach my nose

god measured out

My cat named Cheetos first leg is 6 inches long

my cats named Cheetos 2nd leg is 6 inches long

3rd leg is 6 inches

4 leg is 6 inches

Both her eyes are exactly the same size this is because god measured them out.

Both here ears are exactly the same. This is because god measured them out.

god measured Cheeto out

Cheeto and my dog Secret tails are exactly placed between there Butts.

My nose is placed in the middle of my eyes. It makes a triangle. the nose is evenly between each eye

I Don't want to be crude but the butt crack is exactly in the middle. both cheeks are the same size

god measured this stuff out

There noses are both placed on there snouts.

Cheetos right nose hole is the exact size of here left nose holes.

secrets nose holes are exactly the same size.

There ears are the same size.

A deer i saw had antlers the left antler was the exact same size as his right antler. This is because god measured them out.

deer legs were all the same size from viewpoint.

My foot has 5 toes my hands have 5 fingers god counted them out

My right big toe is the same size as my left big toe.

it looks like the eyes sockets on the human skull are exactly the same size. The right one is the same as the left one. That's because god measured them

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1L5AH4n27FoCKSwRfTahYwq8a7bw16CgOf9CzONKTxp8/edit

I can only guess by looking i do not have dead human skulls around the house

Don't have beavers here. But it seems the right beever tooth is the exact same size as the left one. This is because god measured it

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1W5PyptL1AxZFyMFEpRzKfudnuP8Mh8mXN8TuAHPWaq0/edit

right birds wing seems to be exactly the same size as left bird wing. can not catch one to see

All eight pedals on this flower seems to be exactly the same size. It probably is but do not have any flowers near by. Just looking at flower pictures. I wonder if all the pines on a pine tree are the same.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sKmX7ZsGpo8DjkdMc-380ARfBivE0kKhmtzkxBxI7KM/edit

god measured them out

test it out yourself

omargi put you hands together see that both your hands are exactly the same size. that's because god measured them out

Omargi measure your arms see how there both the same size. God measured them out

Omargi look in a mirror see how your nose holes both right and left are the same size god measured them out

oromagi

08.18.2019 07:51AM

Con

Thanks, crossed.

DEFINITIONS

God is "short for God the Father, the fountainhead and coeternal hypostasis of the Trinity described in the Old Testament." [1]

measure out (past tense measured) is "to measure and remove (something) from a larger amount." [2]

everything is (literally) "All the things under discussion. "[3]

RESOLUTION: God measured everything out

CON interprets the resolution to mean that God has taken the measurement of anything PRO can think of. PRO goes on to demonstrate that PRO can think of lots of different things PRO supposes GOD measured.

Let's note that PRO never connects the list of measurements to God in any purposeful way. Essentially the whole of PRO's claim is that an invisible, supernatural being has performed every measurement we can think of because his supernatural powers allows us to assume infinite time and interest in the measurement of things. PRO offers no information about the tools or process or documentation of God's measurements, these are all mysteries that must be taken as granted.

Of course, even a superficial scan of PRO's extensive list of examples makes manifest the falsehood of PRO's claims.

God would never measure in British Imperial units which were historically inexact and variable. Our present standard inch was arrived at almost at random. The inch was traditionally defined as the width of an average man's thumb but how the average man was determined or measured is seldom explained. Of course, the average man's measurements are variables that change over time as human sizes change through the ages. [4] Since any God worth the supposing would be imagined as rather more invariable that fickle thickness of man's thumb, let us assume that God would measure in metric meters, derived from the measure of the invariable speed of light.

Further, PRO's claims are pretty obviously invented:

PRO's measurements are rounded inches, a rather absurd scale for measuring a human face. If PRO offered these private measurement in round feet, we would obviously call foul since PRO would necessarily eliminate the small differences in measuring the left and right nostril, say, and then claim a perfect match. Well, perhaps a bit less obviously, rounding inches is likewise so large a scale that even fairly obvious differences in ear lobe length or left eyebrow vs right eyebrow would be rounded to totally unsurprisingly identical numbers.
If PRO measured in micrometers and maybe kept the first few decimal places- many interesting and important asymmetries could be accurately recorded. Asymmetries, we should note, already apparent to the human eye without measurement- our human brains are particularly well adapted to noticing minor assymetries in human faces as an essential component of human communication.
Nobody is perfectly symmetrical [ https://www.self.com/story/one-boob-bigger-than-the-other] and very few people are even as symmetrical as PRO's personal claims.

PRO has only offered a long list of data based on PRO's personal features and some pet features. CON asks voters to invalidate as evidence each and every one of these highly suspect claims entirely untestable and unfalsifiable by CON.

CON asks that voters to invalidate the entire listed data in full awareness that this eliminates 100% of PRO's R1 argument. CON recommends that PRO submit an entirely new argument or forfeit, whichever CON prefers.
Put another way, once we toss out the long list of unfalsifiable data and requests that CON generate some unfalsifiable data, PRO's argument is a blank.

Return to PRO for resubmission of argument using data that can be falsified.

[1]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/measure out

[2]https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/measure%20out

[3]https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/everything

[4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inch

Round 2

crossed

08.18.2019 10:01PM

Pro

In the beginning God created a man named Adam. God created Adams right hand to be 6 inches long. He then created Adams left hand to be 6 inches long. God Then went on and created Adams arm span to be 5 foot 10 inches long and then he created him to be 5 foot and 10 inches tall. God also had both arms be exactly the same size. and was still able to measure it out so his arm span was equals his height. God then went on and created Adams legs. God created Adams right leg to be the same size as his left. God saw that Adam was lonely so he went on to create eve. He created eves right hand hands exactly the same size. God created her arm span to be 4 foot 11 he then created her to be 4 foot and 11 inches long. God created both her arms to be both the same size and created her arm span to equal her height God created Both her legs to be exactly the same size.

Not real numbers just needed to tell the story.

Years past and Adam and eve have Million of children. Adam past these measurements Down to his children via his DNA. But out of the million children 1000 of them are slightly off. Billy one of Adams decedent was a runt in a litter of 12 brothers. All his brothers except him were perfectly proportioned his oldest brother was

6 foot 2 and his arm span was 6 foot and 2 inches and all his limbs were exactly the same. Same with his 2nd oldest brother who was 5 foot and 11 inches tall and his arm span was 5 foot and 11 inches long. and all his limbs were exactly the same. But Billy had a mutation he was 4 foot 9 and his arm span was 4 foot 8. This was because the information in His DNA in which god put the measurements in was damaged. Luckily all his limbs were exactly the same size. And The mutation was not big enough to effect any of his offspring. Thousands of years past and it is the year 2019 These measurements have Mostly stayed the same with most people being exactly proportioned. For example Bob. Bob is 5 foot and 7 inches long His Arm span is also 5 foot and 7 inches tall. His arms are also exactly the same along with both his legs. His ears are both 4 inches Long. But Bob eats the American diet. The American diet has chemicals that damage his DNA. So Bobs son Jimmy Is slightly off Jimmy's right arm is 29 inches long While his left arm is 30 inches long.Luckily all his other limbs were exactly the same. He saw the flaw of his fathers bad diet and Jimmy ate right. By not eating crud he grew out of it by the age of 19 his right arm was 35 inches and his left arm was 35 inches. fixing the mutation he had when he was younger.

So summary God measured out Adam and eve perfectly. Adam and eve had children. Adam and Eve past down there DNA to there children. The perfect measurements were coded into There DNA. Even though the majority of people Still have the perfect measurements. some people Had there DNA damage So the information/measurements in there DNA were mutated. So maybe there arms is off by a couple cm or something.

Our arm span is equal to our height for the typical human. Only god could have done this because Arm length has nothing to do with height.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1kwsJcVLgQDZ1FDr6L-sfGVcrU6g1nBXFQiVxMWjYOmQ/edit

For most people, their arm span is about equal to their height. Mathematicians say the arm span to height ratio is one to one:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/human-body-ratios/

Apparently i am not the first to come up with this. Virtuvius a roman architect. says god measured ever limb

https://www.bl.uk/learning/cult/bodies/vitruvius/proportion.html

Rebuttal

I did not round i just did not feel like spending the time to put the decimals. i can in the next round if you want. You can do it yourself to see. What i say is true. It says the boobs are slightly off because of genetics. Like i said The measurement/information in our DNA can get mutated. I urge the voter to measure there own Body's and not leave it to word say.

The boob site said.

A lot of it has to do with genetics

oromagi

08.21.2019 04:58AM

Con

Thanks, crossed.

DEFINITIONS

PRO did not object to any definitions. CON's definitions stand.

RESOLUTION: God measured everything out

PRO did not object to PRO's interpretation

BURDEN of PROOF

Wikipedia offers:

"When two parties are in a discussion and one makes a claim that the other disputes, the one who makes the claim typically has a burden of proof to justify or substantiate that claim especially when it challenges a perceived status quo. This is also stated in Hitchens's razor. Carl Sagan proposed a related criterion, the Sagan standard, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". [1]

As a proclaimer of the extraordinary, the Burden of Proof is clearly PRO's.

DROPPED ARGUMENTS

PRO has not yet offered any evidence that can be tested or falsified.
CON declared PRO's R1 100% invalid and PRO has not objected or countered.
PRO still never connects the list of measurements to God in any purposeful way.
PRO ignored metric vs. imperial standard argument: any hypothesized creator would be more likely to measure in units that reflect universal constants such as the speed of light (metric) rather than the King of England's thumb width (imperial).
PRO ignores CON's complaint that PRO is using the wrong scale to measure human features.
PRO admits that his personal measurements of various bits and bobs are inexact.

PRO continues to make extraordinary assertions without offering any framework or evidence or reason. PRO extends the primary contention: no debatable point has yet been offered for CON to counter.

Back to PRO for one last chance. What evidence show that God measured out everything?

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(philosophy)

Round 3

crossed

08.23.2019 10:41PM

Pro

I measured feet big toe and hands out. there exactly the same. I suspect that if most of you do the same experiment you would most likely come to the same conclusion. God measured us out.or to be more exact he measured Adam and eve out and we inherited the numbers from Adam .now the numbers can be screwed a bit when being passed down but via the DNA.But that does not change that he measured.

This takes longer then I suspected. So I was not able to measure everything. but it comes down to the same thing. I got some measurements from 2 siblings but they did not like doing it. so it is mostly me.

Our hands are measured if my right hand is exactly the sane as left. I suspect you will most likely find the same if you tried.

Foot measurement's.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tlYKikaTAFzoOP8fZRQ3eeaLIjXchrwZKP-IFq3dNsA/edit

big toe sizes

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sBu6EgF6BB-xgl-iCFBSXpMrh4LBhGLhkkVaHgZ4q9s/edit

Hand sizes

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TYj3LRWrklxsieYx9PTA-8xVFTpm6wV9e4HNbAuufXc/edit

I will get more it takes time and I need someone to hold the camera which Is hard to find someone to do.

precise hormone clocks

espanol deer hormone clocks release hormone between October through January. this is called deer mating season. these clock's have been precisely dialed they release hormones during October every year.

the precise thing is that they release hormones at the same time each year. same time being October through January each year.

this is espanol deer other deer can be different.

People are so confident in this that they say that it will happen each year in October.

let say I precisely dial my alarm clock to go off at 7.30.but the power goes out and my alarm does not go off at 7.30. did I still precisely dial my alarm clock. I absolutely did. The fact that the power went off and my precise dialing was screwed up. Does not change the fact that I precisely dialed it.

lets say god precisely dialed the deer's hormone clocks to go off in October. But let say a bunch of environment toxins effect the clock and its clock gets messed up. Did god not precisely dialed the clock. no he did precisely dialed it but the toxins screwed it up.

"Deer have a fairly long mating season that covers from October through January. This period of time is called the rut"

https://www.deerworlds.com/deer-reproduction/

Same with the measurements above. God measured stuff out. But through chemicals filled diet. These measurements can be slightly off. Now the perfect ratio between measured out stuff can be different. Hands and feet are almost always exactly the same. I would say a good 99 percent of the time. while maybe circle are less likely to be as exact as something like sticks. Something like female breast are a little less then 50 percent like you mentioned. but still almost half of them are exactly the same. about one out of two and half people

God counted stuff out. these are precise numbers

Humans have 2 eyes 2 ears

dogs have 2 eyes 2 ears

cats have 2 eyes 2 ears

horses have 2 eyes 2 ears

cows have 2 eyes 2 ears

weasels have 2 eyes 2 ears

goes on for about 90 percent of all animals

same with 4 legs and 2 legs and 2 arms

These precise measurements that have been passed down from Adam and eve can be corrupted. like a mutation in the DNA can cause 3 arms. but that does not change the fact that it is preset to give you 2 arms. he counted them out and set the number to be two. that set number can be corrupted. that does not change the fact that the number was set that way

Con said god did not use man measuring systems. if something is exactly the same size its been measured out. symmetry numbers.

pls don't b###### me because of the title. because I said everything. lets say about everything. I can not go out and measure everything. but I can observe and see that things have been measured out.

The earth is round. the moon is round. the sun is round.. this is because god measured them out.

oromagi

08.25.2019 06:46AM

Con

Thanks, crossed.

DEFINITIONS

PRO did not object to any definitions. CON's definitions stand.

RESOLUTION: God measured everything out

PRO did not object to PRO's interpretation

BURDEN of PROOF

PRO did not object to full BOP on PRO

DROPPED ARGUMENTS

PRO has not yet offered any evidence that can be tested or falsified.
CON declared PRO's R1 100% invalid and PRO has not objected or countered.
PRO still never connects the list of measurements to God in any purposeful way.
PRO ignores CON's complaint that PRO is using the wrong scale to measure human features.
PRO admits that his personal measurements of various bits and bobs are inexact.

PRO briefly addressed the imperial vs. metric argument by arguing if something is exactly the same size its been measured out. We have established that PRO is deliberately using a large units of measurements and rounding to the nearest or half. So if my right nostril is 14 mm in diameter and my left nostril is 18mm, PRO's methodology would report back that I have two nostrils that are identically 1 inch in diameter. PRO then uses that identicalness (created by methodology only) as proof of GOD. PRO's methodology distorts the evidence. Nor has PRO gotten around to explaining why identical nostrils must prove GOD.

PRO continues to make extraordinary assertions without offering any framework or evidence or reason.

deer release hormones between Oct & Jan is evidence of precision....[Biology tells us that any large multi cellular organism is going to be secreting hormones more or less constantly. We need no experiments to say with confidence that deer also release hormones in Sept and February- that's just basic biology]. PRO's evidence is manifestly false.
PRO talks about how many creatures have even numbered features without discussing natural symmetry in cell division. PRO falsely claims that 90% of all animals have 2 eyes and 2 ears. In fact, the arthropod phylum contains about 80% of the known animals species and none of these have ears.

In conclusion, PRO has listed many things that are measurable without offering a methodology for falsifying PRO's data. PRO's case relies exclusively on the precision of these measurements and by what standard but PRO measure small things with large units (facial features measure in inches, for example) and then rounds to nearest whole numbers to create an illusion of exactitude.

PRO never makes the theoretical connection between the (deceptively generated) identical numbers and the necessity of God to account for those identical numbers.

If VOTERS agree that PRO has failed to prove that any of these measurements are meaningful or that God did the measuring then VOTERS should award arguments to CON.

Thanks in advance to the VOTERS for their kind consideration.

Dr.Franklin

08.31.2019 11:01PM

#19

Spam debate? Yeah the liberal bias strikes again

Ramshutu

08.31.2019 10:56PM

#18

-->

@PressF4Respect

*******************************************************************
>Reported Vote: Press Ff4Respect// Mod action: [Removed]
>Points Awarded: 3 points to con for arguments

>Reason for Decision: More convincing arguments

Reason for Mod Action>The voter doesn’t sufficiently justify or weigh arguments.

Please review the code of conduct; for specific detail of what is expected from voters.

*******************************************************************

crossed

08.16.2019 01:20AM

#17

i found this

"yes, your arm span is about the same as your height. If you hold your arms straight out from your sides, the distance from the fingertips of one hand to the fingertips of the other is about how tall you are. Some slight variations exist, though."
https://www.answers.com/Q/Are_your_arms_the_same_length_as_your_body

what he is saying is if your arm span is 6 feet long your height is most likely going to be 6 foot tall. if your 4 foot 9 tall then your arm span is most likely going to be 4.9 though this can screw u and maybe a 4.8 happens. But i was expecting this and it reconfirms my believe that these measurements were programmed into our DNA by god.i believe that these numbers and god measurements are programmed in our DNA. That he has are DNA set so our height is always in proportionate with our arm span. .

god programs precise numbers in our dna for example god programmed the precise numbers of 2 eyes 2 ears 2 arms and 2 legs 5 fingers 5 toes. But sometimes our DNA mutates and we get 6 fingers instead of the 5. but our body's have been breaking down since the Adam ate the forbidan fruit. and honestly i expected it to not be as precise as it is. My feet are both exactly the same both my arms are exactly the same my hands are exactly the same. Not one cm off

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/human-body-ratios/

Speedrace

08.15.2019 04:39PM

#16

-->

@oromagi

Lol I saw that I like it too 😂😂

oromagi

08.15.2019 04:30PM

#15

-->

@Speedrace

I have a cousin named Margie so I’m good. Lots of people call me orogami. Somebody just called u speedwagon which i also like

Speedrace

08.15.2019 04:14PM

#14

-->

@oromagi

He called you omargi LOL

TheAtheist

08.15.2019 03:48PM

#13

-->

@crossed

Regardless, the human body still has many flaws. For example, molars are useless and they usually need to be removed. Why would God give us molars?

Also, if appendicitis is caused by an unhealhty diet, why would God make us want to eat food that is unhealthy?

whiteflame

08.15.2019 03:05PM

#12

So, I have to ask: is God responsible for all symmetrical forms that exist? Or just for the symmetry of our bodies?

janesix

08.15.2019 02:48PM

#11

-->

@crossed

Maybe God will show us someday, maybe that's part of spiritual growth

crossed

08.15.2019 02:32PM

#10

-->

@TheAtheist

The appendix helps our immune system out. it is outdated science that it is useless

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/84937.php

we can not blame the body part because it fails because of our chemical filled diet

Dr.Franklin

08.15.2019 02:30PM

-->

@TheAtheist

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071008102334.htm

"Long denigrated as vestigial or useless, the appendix now appears to have a reason to be - as a "safe house" for the beneficial bacteria living in the human gut. The gut is populated with different microbes that help the digestive system break down the foods we eat. In return, the gut provides nourishment and safety to the bacteria. Parker now believes that the immune system cells found in the appendix are there to protect, rather than harm, the good bacteria."

Our apendix is good, maybe neutral, but God made apendexis's for that pupose

crossed

08.15.2019 02:29PM

-->

@janesix

I know but it is how precise it is that bothers me. i thought my hands would be off by an cm or something. But when i put my hands together it is exactly 50/50. I want to know all the stuff that we are to dumb to find out. There must be a ton of stuff that we are to dumb to find.

TheAtheist

08.15.2019 02:29PM

-->

@crossed

The human body also has many design flaws. For example, our appendix is useless but 7% of all adults get appendicitis. Why would God give us such a pointless and harmful organ?

janesix

08.15.2019 02:15PM

-->

@crossed

I agree there are aspects of the human body that are designed to be symmetrical. But they are also designed to use the divine proportion, and even pi in some areas and respects. It probably gets even more amazing and complicated, but we are too dumb to figure it all out.

crossed

08.15.2019 02:12PM

-->

@janesix

cheeto is sweet. i could kick her and she would love me.
Anyway are heads are placed exactly in the middle of our body's. Get a measuring tape and see. from my right shoulder to my neck is 7 inches. from my left shoulder to my neck is 7 inches.

janesix

08.15.2019 12:39PM

Are you sure that Cheetos appreciates that?Lol

crossed

08.15.2019 12:35PM

Petting wild orange kittypets

crossed

08.15.2019 12:31PM

petting my kittypet while laughing evilly

crossed

08.15.2019 12:17PM

waaaaaaa ha ha ha

K_Michael

09.01.2019 01:38AM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Pro's writing comes across as condescending to me, like Pro is talking to a 2-year-old. This may not have been intentional but anyone communicating must be careful to come across with a respectful tone, and I don't feel that Pro was showing that respect. Conduct to Con.

Pro extensively ignored rules of capitalization and punctuation, such as "god measured my arms out so they would be the exact same size,"
which not only neglects a period at the end of the sentence, but also doesn't capitalize "God," which is a proper noun AND at the beginning of the sentence.
Furthermore, "My top lips are 3 inches

My bottom lips are 3 inches" is incorrect in that you pluralize "lip" when referring to both the top and bottom together, and is referred to as a "lip" when only referencing one. There are also extra spaces in between "are" and "3" in the first line. Grammar to Con.

Barney

08.31.2019 02:01PM

Criterion

Pro

Tie

Con

Points

Better arguments

3 point(s)

Better sources

2 point(s)

Better legibility

1 point(s)

Better conduct

1 point(s)

Reason:

Spam troll debate, so not putting much into this...

“If PRO measured in micrometers and maybe kept the first few decimal places- many interesting and important asymmetries could be accurately recorded.” con also points out that God would not use rounded imperial units, and pro immediately insists on using that bad standard and further insisting that against reason God used it. He the. Gives some really bad math about how many children human women tend to have (1,000,000 each...).

As con pointed out, pro never offers any evidence for how or why his imaginary friend did all these measurements, nor anything to suggest said imaginary friend is real to have done such.