Instigator / Pro
2
1711
rating
34
debates
85.29%
won
Topic
#1068
Fedor is the best heavyweight of all time
Status
Finished
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
Winner & statistics
After 2 votes and with 2 points ahead, the winner is...
Trent0405
Parameters
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 3
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One week
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
Contender / Con
0
1702
rating
574
debates
67.86%
won
Description
Fedor Emelianenko is the greatest heavyweight of all time. Observing the good resume, great technique, and amazing resilience make him the greatest heavyweight champion in the long and illustrious history of MMA. I would like my opponent to name a heavyweight they believe is superior to Fedor. Thanks for accepting.
Round 1
I see you'll be arguing for Stipe. Good choice, let's have a great debate
Stipe is un doubly great, but Fedor never lost in his prime in my opinion (other than a disqualification that shouldn't have happened). His first loss to Werdum is commonly argued to be the single loss in his career that can't be written off by age. However, even before this fight Fedor was slipping. look at his fight before with Brett Rogers, he was getting demolished for the whole fight until Fedor landed a giant overhand that dropped Brett. Also, Brett wasn't some top 10 legendary fighter, he currently sits at 17 and 10 according to SherDog, so if a slightly above average fighter can push Fedor to his limits, the man that beat Filipovic and Nogueira has clearly fleeted.
But, Fedor is incredibly resilient. A guy like Antonio Silva slipped hard after his skill began depleting. But, Fedor can still beat competitive fighters like Frank Mir, Chael Sonnen and Jeff Monson. It looks like Stipe is having trouble in the heart of his prime, look at his fight with Stefan Struve. Also, Stipe has been on the losing end of his only rivalry with Daniel Cormier. But, Fedor beat all of his rivals like Filipovic, Nogueira, and Coleman.
You talk ill of Silva but Silva pretty much put Fedor in a hospital and won by TKO.
What is most hilarious to me, is that you proudly talk ill of someone who defeated Fedor. If he lost so genuinely and was eroded to the point where the ref had to call TKO, then if his opponent is weak relatively in terms of skill and strength what does that tell you about the guy who lost to him?!
Stipe Miocic is a fighter who isn't as quantity-heavy as Fedor as such, he goes for well timed, high quality fights to maintain titles and earn big so it's actually worth the damage to his body and stress to his mind etc. Fedor has so many 'career' stepping stone fights where it was blatant he'd win from the start. His strategy is fine, it's wise but then he began to give into the drug of fame and if you want to play with the big boys you better have self-discipline.
Stipe Miocic is the embodiment of discipline. He doesn't talk shit on camera like Mcgregor, he stays humble and knows his worth. He goes in the ring adapts his strategy to his opponent (more so than ANY MMA fighter I have ever seen) and comes out either the victor or a very worthy loser in the 3 times he's lost. You want to talk greatest of all time? What about the guy who is ranked #1 Heavyweight and defended his title three times and is pound-for-pound considered to be the 11th most efficient of all MMA fighters by the UFC officials?
Miocic is no fucking joke. When Miocic agrees to a fight you know he's putting in the work and I don't just mean diet. The guy clearly studies his opponents in detail, adapts his body and mind to become a counter-style to them and unless they adapt too, he wipes the floor with them. He is the single calmest fighter I have ever seen in the pro scene, let alone heavyweight scene where things are more brutal and intense. He has a demeanour of 'I am in control in this fight, if over nothing else at least over myself'. You cannot manipulate him into a state of anger or anxiety and why? It is because he completely understands precisely how far to take a move so as to waste 0 effort. He never goes too far such as to be drastically dragged away from the other guy by the ref, he willingly lets the ref tug him and that's his goddamn power and foresight.
Early in his career (2011) you could say one of his toughest opponents (because grapplers are the style that kicking goes weakest into as they love to grab your leg and Stipe is overall a natural kicker) was Bobby Brents.
^ notice that unlike Mcgregor or most MMA fighters in general he not only is pleasant himself, from the start of the fight to the end even when his opponent gets a fly in his eye he never is too mean or plays too dirty. There is a clear mutual respect between them from how they look at each other before to how after they touch gloves they aren't in terror of the other hitting them instantly in a dirty-play manner. That is Stipe's aura, not Bobby's. Stipe has a way of making opponents tamer and happier when he's against them but this becomes their weakness.
Also, take note that when Stipe wins by judge decision it's always unanimous and he actually is strategic in how he garners more points than his opponent every fight. Fedor has had a split decision when he beat Maldonado and honestly it seems like he relies on his brutal hits and furious style to garner his wins in general. I'm not saying he's bad, but what is greater; the guy who plays every single move so that you either have to risk more against him or lose or the guy who comes out flying and hopes you slip up enough to make it worthwhile so he can beat you into submission? Fedor is strongest against opponents who don't hold up well in bursty-conflict. Stipe is good against all opponents in general because he knows how to work around their style. That's why he didn't kick too much against that grappler.
Look at Fedor in this loss:
Can you even tell what is going on? He just flies in tries a combo and oopsie Dan Henderson's is better... they clearly are both like furious dogs going in for an almighty bite hoping one breaks the other's leg or chest first (biting was metaphorical). This is very common for Fedor to do, even when he wins one sits there going 'wth happened? Was there any strategy or just raw physical prowess?' Look here:
Seriously this is considered his 'greatest clash' and title defence:
What even was this fight? Was the other guy even trying? This is basically what a fight with Fedor is, total submission from the other or total dominance. He brings out this thing in others and it is nonsensical even when he wins.
Stipe wins by adapting his strategy. Stipe Miocic let people challenge his belt/title three times while reigning champion and won all three, holding a record for most consecutive title defences. Don't think for one second he's just smooth sailing and dodging challenges.
Round 2
You referenced how polite Stipe is but Fedor also poses this trait. MMA India praised Fedor for abstaining from trash talk.
You said Fedor had a lot of stepping stone fights that were for written conclusions. But looking at both fighters first 21 fights, you find that Fedor beat Nogueira, Randleman, and Coleman. No body would say that these are "stepping stone" fights. But, Stipe has had trouble scoring wins against high level opponents, he beat an old Mark Hunt, and Francis Ngannou, these fighters aren't nearly as good as the ones Fedor beat. To prove this I took the most well respected MMA site, SherDog. Look at how many people Fedor has beat are on their top 10 best heavyweights list, 5 to be exact. In contrast, only one person Stipe beat is on that list. So, Fedor clearly poses the better resume
.
I saw you insult Fedor's fight with Filipovic, well Filipovic ranked 4th on that SherDog list. Not only this, but you stated how wild Fedor's style is, well that is fictitious in my opinion, Fedor did fight with nuance, look at his Nogueira fight, Fedor looked for new angles, countered, and strategically stuffed Nogueira's grappling. It is true Fedor has had some slugfests, but so has Stipe, his fight with Ngannou was wild, it doesn't make him worse technically.
You stated how Fedor lost to a slightly above average fighter in Antonio Silva, but Stipe lost brutally to an equally mediocre fighter in Stefan Struve. Also, Fedor lost to Antonio before his 2 losing streaks that ended his career, while Fedor was well passed his best. But Stipe lost to Struve very early into his career.
You also reference how Stipe only wins by unanimous decision, but Fedor has had a longer career, with 9 decisions, but Stipe has only had 4. Plus Fedor just wins more often and didn't lose in his prime other than a silly DQ that shouldn't have happened. But, Stipe has lost 3 times in his prime, 2 by KO/TKO.
All loses you've brought up happened well past Fedor's best, but Stipe has lost 3 times with no externalities to account for. many traits that are desirable in a fighter that Stipe has, Fedor also has.
Great debate so far, it's been really stimulating so far.
Forfeited
Round 3
Stipe just doesn't wrestle as well as Fedor, look at Filipovic vs Fedor again, Filipovic was failing to make any significant damage past the first 5 minutes largely because Fedor was taking him down and muffling his offence. Stipe has un doubly out wrestled some of his opponents. However, these fighters were nearly unanimously against fighters that have very poor wrestling abilities like Francis Ngannou and Mark Hunt. Now I'm aware Filipovic wasn't the best wrestler, but my point still stands, look at Fedor's Coleman and Nogueira fights, they couldn't use their incredible wrestling and Jiu jitsu because of Fedor's other worldly sambo, wrestling, and grappling.t
Another rebuttal on your statements surrounding Fedor's technique, stating how his victories largely stem from his physical prowess. However it appears that Fedor is a very well versed fighter, he has 14 wins by KO/TKO, 15 wins by submission, and 9 by decision. However, Stipe has gotten 78% of his 21 wins by KO/TKO.
Also, I'd like to address the title defense issue. Stipe may have a very impressive three title defenses, but Fedor also possessed three title defenses. However this doesn't do Fedor's rein justice. Pride had some rules that meant Fedor wouldn't have his belt on the line for most of his fights after winning the belt. Overall, Fedor would have had 12 title defenses, with no losses if this silly rule didn't exist.
Sorry for how short this was, I'm aware that my opponent has a very busy debate schedule. Therefore, he had to forfeit the last round, this gave me very little to work with.
Forfeited
Yes, Cain had some great cardio, I just think Fedor has the better resume, Coleman, Cro Cop, Big Nog, Kevin Randleman, and we can't forget HONG MAN CHOI.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/5DzXKC1-w3A/hqdefault.jpg
I think we both know prime Cain set the standard for cardio in MMA. The early storm would last 5 rounds lol
Be careful putting him on that pedestal, the high elevation might kill him.
You misspelled Cain Velasquez lol
Fedoras are hats. They don't fight, genius
Stipe Miocic is better.
Beat better competition in heavyweight and remained champion for a longer period of time.
It will be decided in the Cormier Vs Miocic rematch!
Of course RM accepts it.
Okay, since I misunderstood which sport this is about, I will now be representing Stipe Miocic.
My offering was meant to elicit whether non-MMA heavyweights were included in Pro's consideration. I suppose that will need to be addressed debate-side now. good luck
I will be representing Evander Holyfield.
I don't know too much about boxing. You might be right, but I am not sure.
Muhammad Ali