Admitting Refugees
The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.
After 4 votes and with 4 points ahead, the winner is...
- Publication date
- Last updated date
- Type
- Standard
- Number of rounds
- 5
- Time for argument
- Three days
- Max argument characters
- 10,000
- Voting period
- One month
- Point system
- Winner selection
- Voting system
- Open
--Overview--
This debate will last 5 rounds, with 3 days for each debater to post for each round. There will be 10,000 characters available to each debater for each round. Voting will last for 1 month. You must have an ELO of 1,500 to accept, and I would prefer someone who has completed at least one debate on the site as an opponent. I am taking the Con position.
--Topic--
Developed nations have a moral obligation to admit people fleeing oppression.
--Definitions--
Developed Nation - any nation classified as an advanced economy by the IMF
Morality - conformity to ideals of right human conduct
Obligation - something one is bound to do
Admit - to allow entry to
Oppression - the action of keeping down by severe and unjust use of force or authority
--Rules--
1. No forfeits
2. Citations must be provided in the text of the debate as posted links (not embedded)
3. No new arguments in the final speeches
4. Observe good sportsmanship and maintain a civil and decorous atmosphere
5. No trolling
6. No "kritiks" of the topic (challenging assumptions in the resolution)
7. For all undefined resolutional terms, individuals should use commonplace understandings that fit within the logical context of the resolution and this debate
8. The BOP is evenly shared
9. Rebuttals of new points raised in an adversary's immediately preceding speech may be permissible at the judges' discretion even in the final round (debaters may debate their appropriateness)
10. Violation or rejection of any of these rules or of any of the description's set-up (including definitions), merits a loss
--Structure--
R1. Pro's Case; Con's Case
R2. Pro generic Rebuttal; Con generic Rebuttal
R3. Pro generic Rebuttal; Con generic Rebuttal
R4. Pro generic Rebuttal; Con generic Rebuttal
R5. Pro generic Rebuttal and Summary; Con generic Rebuttal and Summary
First, the question posed by the resolution is not one of moral obligation. Whatever arguments Pro chooses to put forward in defense of the resolution, then, they must be sufficient to sustain the high burden of proving obligation.
Second, any morally obligatory action must produce moral results.
For example, a person who cannot swim does not have a moral obligation to leap into the middle of a lake in order to save a drowning person.
For example, the fact that I choose to smile at a stranger passing by might produce the moral result of making them happier, but it does not seem like I am obliged to do so.
Admitting refugees has fueled the rise of populist-nationalist and/or neo-fascist political movements like: Vlaams Belang, National Rally, UKIP, Brexit, M5S, Liga, Jobbik, Fidesz, AfD, PiS, Golden Dawn, Vox, PvV, FvD, FPO, Finns, Sweden Democrats, and DPP.
There is “a backlash being felt across Europe...The impact can be seen in country after country, with far-right parties hammering away at authorities deemed too permissive in allowing those fleeing...persecution to find a home in Europe.” [1]
Studies confirm that increases in immigration do trigger increases in xenophobic sentiments. For instance: one "large-scale European study…concluded that…an increase in immigration generally does…go hand-in-hand with increased public anxiety and anti-immigration stances."
That backlash is most intensely focused on those fleeing oppressive countries, whose skin color, accents, and customs mark them out as "other."
are turned into exhibits of a fading, Judeo-Christian identity that many Europeans are desperate to recapture; this makes those refugees easy targets of hatred and fear. [13]
So, let's recap. Refugee admittance has triggered nationalist movements throughout the US and Europe. These movements have achieved electoral success by leveraging anti-immigration messages. Many of these movements are now in power or soon will be. This sequence of events amount to a sociopolitical/sociocultural backlash against immigrants and refugees.
By virtue of their being nationalist, nationalist parties tend to eschew norms of global cooperation, and in fact tend to follow policies which actively seek to disentangle themselves from or dismantle the global community.
Unfortunately, global institutions, while not exactly pretty, are key fora for ... human rights observation
In the EU, “[f]ar-right nationalists have banded together in an effort to consolidate their power across the union.” They are planning “to pick apart the fabric of the EU, from Brussels itself. ‘They do not like anything to do with Europe, and they will do anything to destroy it’.”
NATO too is being weakened, beyond Trump's threats to withdraw from or defund the organization. “Amidst these uncertainties, NATO cohesion has frayed. Central and East European allies, including Poland and the Baltic states...fear that growing U.S. isolationism will leave them undefended
The rise of nationalist parties has led to these parties clamping down of refugee admittance.
Violence and hate crimes against immigrants rise as xenophobia rises.
"Overall, 23 percent of populists cause significant democratic backsliding, compared with 6 percent of non-populist...leaders. In other words, populist governments are about four times more likely than non-populist ones to harm democratic institutions...Over 50 percent of populist leaders amend or rewrite their countries’ constitutions, and many of these changes extend term limits or weaken checks on executive power. The evidence also suggests that populists’ attacks on the rule of law open the way to greater corruption...Under populist rule, freedom of the press falls by some 7 percent, civil liberties by 8 percent and political rights by 13 percent." [24] We only need to look at Trump, our own dear leader, to see these statistics in concrete form. Trump's efforts to defy subpoenas, for example, weaken checks on executive power. But we need not only look at Trump. PiS in Poland sought to pack the judiciary recently, and Fidesz in Hungary controls the media apparatus to keep opposition parties from gaining traction. [25, 8].
Ultimately, the admittance of refugees triggers dangerous backlash which harms us and the refugees.
First, Pro has an equal burden of proof in this debate, meaning that he cannot win simply by countering my case. By choosing to primarily focus on rebutting my case
it implies that the resolution is referring to "people fleeing oppression in general," just as "birds fly" means "birds in general can fly."
Pro explains that he is only affirming for refugees who (1) meet some as-yet undefined "requirements" for citizenship and (2) are able and willing to be assimilated into Western culture.
Not only that, but Pro wants to make the existing "process stricter."
It is important to note that these limitations are more restrictive than limitations designed just to keep out criminals.
Pro needs to clarify what these requirements are
Thirdly, the google doc is inaccessible to me, and it is unclear what exactly it is for. I would appreciate a clarification from Pro, and a full accessible link.
First, it is important to note that, as the "Exclusion of Refugees" argument in my case illustrates, a moral obligation to admit will not actually lead to more admittance, and may in fact backfire.
Pro has not, with the argumentation he has provided, established a moral obligation.
Oppression could constitute any number of non-lethal activities, from denying gay people the right to have sex to denying women the right to vote.
While oppression is never benign, it may be the case that a person fleeing oppression could still live a largely safe, healthy, and productive life in their country of origin.
Second, this argument does not establish an obligation to admit specifically.
If our moral duty is to protect refugee lives, this duty can easily be discharged by either housing refugees in safe, developing (vs. developed) nations
by providing aid to the countries of origins to help ease the causes of the threat being faced.
Thirdly, there are people all over the world whose lives are at risk. If our moral duty is to save lives, and that is why we should admit refugees, then it seems as if we have a virtually endless obligation to meddle and act across the world.
this argument fails to establish that it is refugees we need to admit. Allowing in large numbers of other immigrants could lessen the rate of demographic change
It's not actually clear from Pro's arguments how he believes admitting refugees is going to preserve Western hegemony.
Conversely, my argument shows how admitting refugees leads to a backlash which undermines those global institutions through which that hegemony is retained.
Therefore, for Pro to meet his burden, he must show that admitting refugees is not only likely to produce a moral result, but also that it rises to the level of obligation.
Importantly, Pro never refutes the empirical evidence/study which shows that increasing rates of immigration correlate to increased xenophobia.
It is not likely the case that Brexit could have gained a successful majority without anti-immigration rhetoric, in which the likes of Nigel Farage traffic. So, it is likely that the xenophobia was either the impetus or the tipping point for Brexit occurring.
The rise of nationalist parties has led to these parties clamping down of refugee admittance.
Pro drops this entire argument as well. Extend it. This is also a strong reason to reject Pro's case, because it demonstrates how in Pro's world there is going to be increased right-wing terror.
"These problems are largely solved if the immigrants come legally through a process." This doesn't really make sense, since what most nationalist leaders focus on is the notion of the country being too full or culturally threatened.
I saved your google doc to web archive.
https://web.archive.org/web/20190831010837/https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EEO-QIEwB1LmUlH1haJh3n495fqmxXAQ1Phrlj3YKf0/edit
Now, even if the original gets modified and/or deleted, the saved copy will be preserved.
I noticed that, in the debate, bsh1 said, and I quote, "Pro's google doc (which I am wary of citing since it can be edited by Pro)"
I would like to let bsh1 know that, when a google doc is saved to web archive, even if Pro (or anyone for that matter) DID edit it later, the original one would be preserved on web archive. So maybe next time, when people are citing google docs as sources in any future debate, they could create a web archive version of that google doc and cite THAT ARCHIVED COPY instead of the original google doc itself, since you can't edit an archive, and thus you don't need to worry about it being edited, so this wouldn't be an issue anymore.
Web archive is also a great tool for people who wish to cite sites such as 4chan, 8chan, twitter, reddit, and facebook in their debates, since those sites tend to delete tweets/posts after a certain amount of time passes or for some other reason, and it could be helpful to preserve sites that tend to get edited or deleted.
Previously, there was a bug/glitch which was preventing web archive from saving and preserving google docs (you could get like a 404 error or something when you tried to do so) but this brand new beta version can do it: https://web.archive.org/save
Plus it has the option to "Save outlinks" and "Save error pages (HTTP Status=4xx, 5xx)"
Web archive is straight-forward and easy to learn and use. You simply copy and paste whatever you want to be preserved and click the SAVE PAGE button. Millions of people use it to preserve things that they fear could get modified or deleted.
Oh, I think the answer is absolutely "yes." We should admit people fleeing oppression.
Just curious, what’s your personal position on this issue?
I think your case is very good, to be clear, and your overviews are very strategic and well done.
Keep an eye on your time.
It's harder for me to respond for multiple reasons; like Wifi problems and general tiredness. After the current debates I'm doing, I'm considering taking a break from DART.
I would post sooner rather than later, lest it slip your mind again.
Why are the responses harder?
I have noticed that it is harder to post arguments then before so this causes procrastination. Sorry.
Don't forget to post your reply (we only have two rounds until the end, so we've almost made it).
I don't feel like the position you are taking now has to necessarily contradict your stance of migration being a human right (for the most part). Being able to leave a country or move around in a country is a lot different from forcing a different country to take you in and, in America's case, we often have to provide social services. You can't force a country to allow a public charge, but it should let people leave if they want.
I hope I'll get to it. It's for some reason harder to debate now. I could see why most people take breaks.
Please post your argument before time expires. You've got like 10 hrs. left.
Just because I am debating for something does not mean it is my actual position. I am taking, in this debate, a position with which I personally disagree.
As a liberal who previously said that migration is a human right, I'm surprised your taking the side your taking. Did you change your mind on immigration?
My position is that western governments shouldn't outright reject immigration, but should have the immigrants follow a pathway to citizenship. In other words, they should come here legally.
Posted.
As a conservative in this day and age, I am surprised to see you on the Pro side.
I want to accept this, but pare down on the rules.