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@Lemming
Those communities aren't reading it. I do appreciate that the communities who read it wrong do exist otherwise we would have a lot more problems on this planet
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Just an update and explanation. After reading the Quran in its entirety I just have to give up because it is such obvious bullshit.
You don't get this vibe over religions that arose naturally such as Buddhism or Christianity, but Islam had the same feel as say Mormonism. Just obvious bullshit and any attempt to defend it is boring attempts at piles on piles of fallacies.
Here is on example. It says in the Quran that reproducing even a single surah would disprove the Quran. Ignoring the recreations of surah multiple times where Muslims just killed the person doing it and claimed victory bot by logic but through violence, we can see it in fact gas been replicated and the typical response is some bullshit like
"It just does not sound as beautiful and give me butterflies, like Quran" so they just move goal posts.
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@Ultramaga
I met him when he was in Russia. We had a good time. He tips well. Pleasant man with very big hands.
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Yes, the fascists are know for Social Security, Medicare, and unemployment insurance. Of course.
Yes, they actually are known for that. Fascism is usually led by a populist and you need some sort of carrot. Hitler also supported similar economic interventionism as FDR.
You Americans are lucky the populists that are about to toss the elite out of power are either pragmatists or some sort of libertarian paleo conservative hybrid.
Heil Ramaswami
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@Best.Korea
I think you and I very well know that "well being" doesnt matter if you have to live in pain.
So you took the first version of the argument and rejected the better version of your argument. Great because your argument fails on premise 1 in a more obvious way
for one, people that have circumcisions are not living in pain, but are temporarily dealing with pain so I am not sure why you are stating well being does not matter if you live in pain.
The skin graft example I gave is another example of increased and intense temporary pain that prevents more pain down the road due to exposed sensitive areas underneath being covered up.
We can also look at other areas where it is okay to accept increased temporary pain for some sort of long term advantage. There is the psychological pain from trauma that can be blunted by smoking crack. We have the pain of exercise that prevents the pain we cause to our relatives when we have a heart attack at a young age.
so your P1 fails and remember your P1 is
premise 1- If something is extremely painful to infants, it should not be done to infants.
This was proven wrong mostly with the skin graft example but there are other examples I gave you to strengthen my argument that something painful is not necessarily to be avoided.
Of course you can come back and then argue that circumcision is a temporary pain with no great long term advantage, but that would be the steelmanned position I gave you and you rejected, so without thed steelmanning your argument fails, even if you insist your conclusion is true. So really you should change your mind or go back to the drawing board to build a stronger argument.
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I will reword your argument into a syllogism. Tell me if I am understanding you correct
premise 1- If something is extremely painful to infants, it should not be done to infants.
premise 2- circumcision is extremely painful
conclusion- circumcision should not be performed on infants
If this is your argument than you have done a great job supporting premise 2, but have done noting to support premise one.
I don't think you can successfully defend premise 1 anyway. clearly some painful things should be done to infants, for example if they are burned in a fire and need skin grafts. If I had to steelman your argument, I would change it to the following.
premise 1- if a medical procedure is painful to infants and unnecessary for the infants well being, it shouldn't be done to the infant.
premise 2- circumcision is painful and unneccessary
conclusion- Circumcision should not be done
The second version of the argument is known as a "strong argument". This means that it isn't always true but mostly is and it appears cogent at first glance, assuming you can support the procedure being unnecessary most of the time.
Am I properly steel manning your argument?
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
I have already seen the muslim apologists making arguments that if they are old enough to bleed, they are old enough to breed, but if they are minors they should get permission from their parents.
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@Best.Korea
Many cultures do celebrate, but perhaps it is also okay to feel sad for your own loss, even if it is temporary and you will see them again when you die
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@FLRW
I became an Atheist at 12 years old when my very religious Aunt and Uncle's 7 year old son died rom leukemia.
I won't insult the reasoning of a 12 year old, you no doubt have better reasons to maintain that belief than you did to initially form it. I will say though, that most religions would believe the child was in a better place and certainly getting mad that God put your suffering friend in an eternal paradise was silly.
In one of the Surahs in the Quran, it is written that if one is confident they will go to heaven than they should not value their life, beyond that it says anyone who doesn't want to die, likely doesn't want to because they know they are evil and will go to hell.
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@Truth_Over_Proof
Truth over proof is a very interesting concept.
I can't wait to see how this new persona shakes out for you
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@Stephen
he prophet first proclaims a revelation requiring the adoption of three of the old polytheistic deities, but later renounces this as an error induced by the Devil.
The book sounds interesting. This part is funny because the prophet often got verses from the devil and then had to take them back. He later on created the Jinn and basically said he was struggling to decipher whether a Jinn gave hum the Surah or not. When a Jinn gave him a surah it was thrown away essentially. Muhhamed also stated he doesn't know whether he would face eternal torment in hell or go to heaven. So the book must be inspired by these things in part.
Well it seems to me to be quite the opposite. It appears that the pastors and priest wanted us to remain not so much "innocent" but complete ignorant and a child is ignorant of the wider world problems. Thereby lacking any such "wisdom".
I consider myself Christian but this is a major issue in the church and has led to a lot of problems. I am still working on some essays on this and researching this subject but essentially what you mention of the church preferring and promoting stupidity and ignorance is an issue. So we have two issues that need fixed that almost seem like opposite issues. I will point out both.
1. Promoting some sort of religion for the intellectually weak
2. Not having a standardized system of belief.
Issue 1 comes with issues like losing intelligent members to occultism, other religions and atheism. We know that most forms of occultism have similar intellectual weakness as christianity. For example the new thought movement and all sorts of new age beliefs, though they will use numerology and sacred geometry to trick themselves into believing they are doing something smart. However other forms of occultism will pick up extremely intelligent people who need a spiritual outlet and to be mentally stimulated.
We also have the fact it creates fundamentalists. I love fundamentalists, because they vote republican and I can not be sure they will vote correctly if they are free thinkers, but ethically it is bad to create a fundamentalist due to the fact they are mental midgets, brainwashed and we can look at the general attitude of orthodox Jews and Muslims to see why these people just can't be reasoned with.
issue 2 is a problem because it creates monsters who can use ideology to achieve some terrible ends. For example John List killed his family after becoming unemployed because he wanted them to spend time in heaven than the hell on Earth that is poverty. This could be just a general issue with any religion that believes in an afterlife, but standardized beliefs could solve the issue a bit. I did also hear a of a woman who drowned her 4 children in a bathtub because she thought she was doing a poor job raising them and she could spare them from hell if she murdered them before they became too sinful. Besides people who do these things on a small scale by falling out of the norm, you also have the issue of outbranches of christianity due to non uniformity of beliefs which results in tragedies such as The Jonestown massacre as well as the branch Davidian siege in Waco Texas. These dangerous beliefs can be eliminated by having a more uniform belief system as opposed to just being able to pick a church based on whatever the hell appeals to you in the moment.
issue 1 is resolved by catholocism which has a deep philosophical history and tradition. Ideally and I am not catholic but it should require not so much a leap of faith to become Christian but a good logical framework so people aren't misguided by their intuition, revelation, visions etc. and have a sincere belief that comes about due to logic.
issue 2 is also solved by something like the catholic church that used to wield enough power to actually shut down churches if they started doing crazy things.
This is not to say that the Catholic church hasn't contributed to those things, but a centralized governing body of all churches would mitigate a lot of the issues pointed out.
TLDR in case my point got lost in the long diatribe. The church certainly has issues with the promotion of stupidiy but there are steps to at least mitigate this damage and I am sure more solutions than just the one I hinted at exist.
I haven't met a child that has had their innocence "destroyed" or illusions "destroyed" by simply having worked out for them selves that Santa doesn't exist."Religion" had a much sinister agenda. And still does in many part of the world where many ( millions) are forced to remain in ignorance.
I am just having fun with the Santa analogy but I was wondering out loud if there is something hidden within us that does the Santa tradition for more sinister reasons. I wouldn't want to deny children of all of the magic of childhood
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Now I have to Google this rushdie novel
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@Stephen
I don't know anything but I figured the eating of wisdom was similar to how a child's innocence would be removed. Like when Buddha discovered that aging, death and disease existed. He then gained some wisdom, but that same wisdom took him out of his happy delusion of invincibility.
I think we still teach children this by telling them santa is real and then letting hem believe it as long as possible, so we can one day destroy their innocence with wisdom and prepare them for how shitty the world is.
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Here is the funny part about western Muslims who don't read the book thinking it is a religion of peace and terrorists are distorting the book. I have watched interviews with members and former members of Hamas who claimed to Rea the entirety of the Koran every 10 days. So approximately 2 hours of Koran reading per day. The terrorists are more familiar with the book than your average western muslim
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Day 3 I am in approximately 10 hours so 10% done.
I have finished about 40% of the Koran but went to this site to see what they are selling to new believers. And read through about 1 hour of content. I also downloaded some Playlist on youtube and will dig deeper into those.
Here are some interesting notes. The whole claim of corrupted books by Christians and Jews, seems to be a cope because muhhamed was just making up some shit from the biblical texts. If we go by what the Koran says than the bible and Torah are uncorrected. At least the bibles around 610 AD. The Torah has legitimately remained unchanged since that time and at some point I will have to look at what translations of the Bible were available at the time, but it looks like the fact that these books are easy to come by in modern times and muhhamed states some fictions about them which are easily provable. So if Muslims are claiming corruption they need to prove the corruption occurred after 600ad at some point.
I have already come across a challenge by muhhamed to disprove him you can merely create a surah similar to the ones found in the Koran. Later he does say 11 a few verses after saying merely one.
This has been done several times and Muslims always move the goal posts. There are now dozens of videos on youtube of Muslims asking chat GPT to write a surah in they style of the Koran. Since chat gpt refuses to do this because the programmers anticipated doing so would piss off Muslims, they see the fact chat GPT refuses to write a surah as evidence it is impossible and thus proof of God.
I have already given up on arabic. The Koran is a hodgepodge of some bastardized version of Arabic before it was standardized and heavily borrows words from 8 languages. This is why people aren't sure if the Koran is talking g of 72 virgins or 42 grapes as a reward for martyrdom. I would be wasting my time as this version of Arabic is basically a dead language and my research has indicated that up yo 80% of Arabic speaking Muslims cannot read the Arabic in the Koran, so I have no hope.
Reading the history of muhhamed from Muslim sources was extremely annoying. I still have not got to the part of the Koran that commands then to say "peace be upon him" after they refer to or say his name. I also think it say a lot about Muslims that if they dont say this shit like some sort of OCD thing that their refusal to say it means that in fact peace will not be upon muhhamed, it's as if they think they have more say on whether peace is upon him than Allah does.
I have also came across many Muslims who claim to never read the Koran. This is why I am seeking out new believer guides in addition to my reading, because most Muslims are getting what their preachers tell them. This isn't really an insult, I doubt most Christians, jews or even other religions like whatever the fuck Indians are, actually read their books. So it is possible most western Muslims legitimately believe it to be a religion of peace
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@Stephen
Here is one take. https://sojo.net/articles/sermon-mount-theology-resistance
But essentially the Roman's had a rule that they could only slap you with their left hand and Jesus said to turn the other cheek to force them to slap resistors with their clean hand. Jesus said if a soldier asks you to carry his stuff 1 mile, do it for 2, because there was a Roman law that they could only have conquered people carry their stuff one Mile. The sermon on the mount was a call for resistance to Rome specifically and it is basically the Ghandi approach that was so effective at defeating the British in more recent history.
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@Stephen
Ita common knowledge among Bible scholars that the jews condemning Jesus to die was ret conned in, and given the sermon in the mount was a declaration of war in Roman's, though it was advocating a non violent type of resistance, he did seem a legitimate threat to Rome, however I think even a non legitimate threat to Rome would have also been crucified if he poked his head out too far
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@FLRW
they let you do it. You can do anything.
It is nice that you have consent. I would be worried if you went through with it after they decided not to let you.
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You are true gentleman.
Out of curiosity, what is your net worth, age and do you have any termi al illness?
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@Best.Korea
I will not turn lesbianism. Loom men have their purposes. They go off to war so they can die to protect me while I have fun with my boy toy. Men work hard back breaking labor so I can live a life of leisure off of their efforts. Plus I allow them to give me oral sex
It is silly to think we should go without men. I mean who would open a door for me, abort my child and go into a violent rage when a stranger passes me off, and I falsely accuse then of groping me?
I would sooner see all women but myself eliminated, so I can have an even bigger slave class to use and abuse.
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Here is a thing I am noticing I wanted to record before I forget. Muhhamad is setting up some weird strawman supposedly given to him by an angel, it kind of shows where Muslims get their arrogance from. One strawman to prove jews are Liara us muhhamed saying that once they die and God says they got it wrong and Muslims were right, they will lie and say they are Muslims.
He then goes on after making up this fictional scenario to say "see look at what they did in my scenario, they are evil liars"
It's some oddball shit a child would do
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@Best.Korea
I don't believe, but even if true than it still means Muslims are more barbaric in general than Christians though maybe 1000 years ago Christianity used to be more barbaric. As interesting as history is, this is resorting to the worst kind of whataboutism
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Muhhameds theology is so bad, I just got to the part where he I saying Jews think Ezra is the son of God..
All these other fake Jewish messiah atheist did their research before claiming to be one
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@Best.Korea
Radical Christians are bad too. As bad as muslims, I would say.
The radical Christian disowns faggot relatives, while the Muslim stones them to death when they make up the majority of a country
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@Stephen
What I can't stop laughing at is the following pattern
Verse 1 kill every polytheism wherever you find them
Verse 2 if they turn to Islam before you murder them than accept them
Verse 3- because Allah is kind and merciful
Anyone reading this pattern of verses can easily tell the 3rd verse is a cope for the first one or just something shoe horned in to justify the murder by making it seem optional for the polytheist.
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@ebuc
1% seems high and given the number of fat fucks in America, that high of a death toll wouldn't surprise me
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@Stephen
I k ow the law of abrogation, but I was going to wait to get into apologetics. As you likely know the apologists often use some circular reasoning to cope with the issues of the faith outsiders take. I wanted to understand this from an uneducated Muslims perspective first.
I pretty much agree with everything you stated. My caveat was that Islam was a worse religion andi didn't want to be dismissive of that fact by distracting with the issues of other abrahamic religions.
As for why Islam has not reformed like other abrahamic religions, besides it being newer. I heard a scholar recently say that Islam did go through a brief period of reform but that many Muslims asking why a mere 2 million jews dominate 33% of the planet when their books say the opposite should be true by now, is that many apologists started to believe it had to do with Muslims getting away from the book, so the reform movement I crushed.
This also explains why Islamic extremists kill Muslims as often if not more so than Jews. The people half assing Islam are keeping the prophets plan of world domination from happening so they view killing lesser Muslims as cleansing the religion
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@Lemming
I'd argue that religions see many variations, interpretations, and evolutions of their followers,
I wouldn't disagree but the statement is dismissive of what could be valid problems with a foundational text that has some obvious issues that will predictably result in good people performing some very horrific acts.
I want to present the dismissiveness with an example.
Normal person - mein kampf paints a pretty disgusting picture of Jews and given the popularity of the book in Germany right now it could end up resulting in some atrocities if the wrong person gets in power
Nazi- well you know the bible has its issues as well and it spots also does not paint Jews in a great light. Plus doesn't it actually have incidences of Genocide seemingly advocated for by God?
In liberal society will often and to our credit give people the benefit of the doubt. We know judaism and Christianity and Buddhism and scientology even are generally peaceful, so we assume that since we have personally seen most religions as peaceful than every single religion without exception is peaceful. I mean all of those religions have also had members do some crazy things, so surely the religion can never be to blame.
After all we also have likely befriended a Muslim at one point and that individual seems cool.
However this belief system that makes all things equal and the presupposition of equality that permeates everything, is assumed to be true, and so the western mind is not conditioned to see when the rare belief system comes along that is alien to these internal biases and our own sense of deep empathy.
So I guess TLDR is that I completely agree with your statement but that I also think it's dismissive of the bigger picture. Given my 100 hour commitment that will likely turn to 100 days, I am sure my opinion will rapidly evolve, but so far it seems like at the very least the Quran once read makes you understand that there are some issues.
I am not a feminist so I will ignore how gender roles are discussed other than the requirement to beat your wife. But they dehumanizing non Muslims as evil though my translation uses the term wrong doer. This is different that Christianity and Judaism talking about sinners because when those religions talk about it, they are talking about it as a way to eradicate their own shortcomings not to project others as bad people.
Besides dehumanization of non Muslims it places no value on life. In the first hour of the book jews are encouraged to commit suicide if they are so sure that God approves of them, they should be happy to meet him, while also devaluing their own lives by welcoming death and seeing the you g dying in battle as a good thing since they get to meet Allah sooner
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I will say s far as ex Muslims are concerned, there seems to be a very special hate for them. Allah is supposed to torture then even more than Christians and Jews in the next life
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@Best.Korea
Wait till you get to the cutting off hands part, and the part about killing children who are non-believers (its actually very common in muslim countries for ex-muslims to be killed even today).
I think it has already mentioned cutting off hands but I kind of dismissed it, because it seemed like a very specific circumstance that I wouldn't necessarily disagree with and since it's audiobook and I wasn't quite sure I heard it correctly, then i didn't want to make a big deal out of it. Plus I will end up rereading the book 49 more times with a mix of a physical copy and audio so I will be more certain after future readings
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@Lemming
So far it's not going great. I can't quite get in their heads and feel like I can momentarily feel like a Muslim to understand them better. I am going to start doing their prayers and what not when I figure out how to so I can start putting myself in their shoes more and more. The biggest hurdle is the Quran. It looks like mohhamed basically just retconned his ideology into Christianity and judaism and it looks extremely obvious. A similar hint to what new ages people who use different ideologies similarly, but the new agers seem to do a better job of ret conning their ideology because of the fact they seem to actually believe their own nonsense and do it for more altruistic purposes, disregarding Esther hicks and those types.
I have read stuff from a lot of religions and they see lm significantly more sincere than this. Even stuff by for example David Icke appears more genuine and sincere. I Walk away from David Icke work, believing that he actually thinks the royal family is reptilian. I walk away from Muhhamed's work believing that he is just trying to start his own movement.
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@Stephen
Day 2
6 hours into the 100 hours
1. 33% of the Quran read..
2. About 40 minutes of Arabic study
What I learned
1. When but not how to beat a woman.
2. Arabic works in a unique and unintuitive way as far as I can tell. It recently evolved less than 1000 years ago from non uniform squiggly lines and dots to something a bit more sensible but many of the symbols look very similar for no appararent reason for non similar sounds. Also the way the sounds blend together is odd. For example using the modern alphabet for English d would make a d sound I make an I sound and when put together did sounds like did. Now in Arabic did may sound like did, but also idi may sound like did. It's just stupid and it's no wonder the prophet was illiterate.
Your comparison of Islam and judaism/Christianity is wrong.
I read the entire Bible many times over but have only read 33% of th Quran so far and can tell a lot of differences.
The Jews were commanded to attack their enemies a lot in the early parts of the old testament. Basically normal tribal battle for control of different territories. Your typical nation state thing, at least for a nation state that wants to expand by normal means. Muhammed preaches for a never ending war against all non Muslims.
Also jews and christians are taught to love their neighbor. You can pick apart things in the Bible that make modern sensibilities uncomfortable but I think the general message is going to be one of peace and love.
The Quran so far is teaching almost exclusively hatred. Between the rewritten bi lical narratives is 2 things. Muhhamad doing poor theology, for example failing to understand the trinity concept and for preaching that the reason for Jewish dietary restrictions is not a guidance by God to eat clean food but a punishment to to Jews for being so stubborn towards God and for writing books interspersed with lies. It should be noted that Mohhamed us using the sane Jewish and Christian framework but more explicitly cherry picking what he wants and changing the story to the correct story before Jews intentionally lied about th Abrahamic God
.
Now we can debate as to what the actual message of th old testament or new testament is, but what you may find wrong with the book, I would call some shit that is debatable or at the least some stuff that is side quests or offhand things not relevant to the main story. For example the Sodom and Gomorrah story, people may criticize the dude offering to where out his daughters to save some guests he just me, but the story is just about how being righteous can save you from God's wrath or more generically destruction from unexpected events.
In the Bible a normal person would read the story and if thy are God believing still feel very terrible for all those dead sinners. In Islam the mood is completely different you would be excited and happy for their death.
Anyway in summary for day 2 of this blog
Islam is quite openly about hate. Mostly for Jews and Muslims but they would consider Jews and Muslims above atheists and pagans. In a Muslim society Jews and Christians will pay a tribute to the Muslims, but atheists and pagans would be killed. I assume all of their followers, unlike Christians and jews have read their holy book and there is no way to miss all of this hate. So when a Muslim is calling it a religion of peace, they are outright lying unless the last 66% of the book is going to surprise me.
As can be expected from a book that has already advocated hate for outsiders, beating women and stoning the book also explicitly talks about how to hire Muslims over non muslims how to not lie in court but specifically against Muslims not non Muslims and there is some bitching and moaning about paying interest on loans.
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@Greyparrot
He was literally the worst candidate in the pri.aries for his party. Even bernie sanders who is a just barely closeted commie would have been more qualified.
Bloomberg would have been the best and the election would have been more clearly wom by him as well
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I am looking to explore what Islam is about for 100 hours and then for 100 days. This blog piece is to explore the first 100 hours. The goal for this 100 days is ambituous/
1. listen to the entire Quran 25 times in English and 25 times in Quranic Arabic.
2. speedrun the entire dulingo Arabic course, it is not quranic arabic but there is enough overlap and it seems like a good foundation.
I already see some issues in Islam from my pre study. for one they change english translations of the Quran in response to controversy, such as when the prophet was sucking on the tongue of a young boy. This is essential for me to learn Arabic.
They also seem to think their book is uncorrupted, but arabic itself was not standardized during the time of the Quran's writing and the words weren't written down until years after the prophets death. There was also disagreement as to the what the words mean almost immediately with the Sunni Shia split.
Some things I am looking out for while going through the Quran, and I know there is more to Islam than the Quran but I want to read it first before getting more involved with the community to learn how to understand the words better. The point of the first 100 hours is to take things from the POV of Muslims and maybe the first 100 days before I dive into what the skeptics say. I will need to learn Islam at a basic level before I get into apologetics as well.
Here is what I am looking out for
1. Is their like a type of cycle of Jihad advocated for. I noticed societies with 1% Muslims will have Muslims claiming Islam is a religion of peace. Once it hits 20% Muslim the society starts defensive Jihad, where they will start attacking those critical of Islam. At 80% of population, Muslims will subjugate christians and Jews demanding a type of tribute to exist and unlike western societies who treat Muslims kindly, they will treat those who are not Muslim as lesser people.
2. Does your typical Muslim or apologist think "Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed", Like a pedophile
3. Are they commanded to go after Jews and does the Quran actually claim Jews shape shift into animals and refuse to drink camel milk and other weird shit.
Day 1: I listened to an audiobook of the Quran for 2 hours. It begins with a type of rehash of the biblical old testament and criticizes Jews for their stubborness. The Old Testament in the bible seems to do the same thing and criticize Jews for their stubbornness but the God as portrayed in the bible is criticizing Jews from a place of love, where as Allah seems to refer to them as wrong doers and accuse them of lying about his words he gave them to write down. Just before the 2 hour mark it seems that Allah is challenging the Jews to kill themselves if they are confident they have done good and are ready to meet God. So already it seems to not respect the sanctity of life. I am not sure how this will continue but it seems the Muslim claims to love death because they are excited to meet God as they are sure they have pleased him, and accuse lovers of life of trying to live so long because they are afraid to meet God, because they know in their heart they are wrong doers.
This is my reading of the Quran. I intend to get a physical copy in addition to the audiobook and can listen about 3 hours a day. The audiobook is about 20 hours so I will give you guys daily summaries. Welcome to my blog.
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@Greyparrot
If you have been watching liberal hivemind lately, he has been showing a lot of polling that includes RFK. Trump is already at a 9 point lead but when the polling includes RFK, Trump wins by 11 points. I did see big news that there is some effort to primary Biden, it will fail but it says a lot about how much they are scrambling.
Steve Bannon has been doing a lot to fill a ton of polling positions with Trump loyalists, the supreme court is republican.
We also have Trump who gained points in the black community because his arrest gave him street cred. The Jews know that Republicans will back Israel harder so thank you Hamas for helping to elect Trump.
The speaker of the house is basically a Trump loyalist who overthrew establishment republicans due to an error by democrats to support the ouster of the former speaker. Trumps 2016 excitement factor is back, and that was a legitimate concern because he doesn't see eye to eye with his followers on masking and vaccines.
So Trump looks like he has an easy road to the whitehouse, despite the weaponization of the legal system against him.
Here is the best part. Post election we have the heritage foundation who has been researching since 2020 on how to establish more power from republicans so the institutional power is not so one sided and the heritage foundations 100 day plan for the president is going to ensure Republicans are extremely competitive for a long time to come. The left has been outmaneuvered by a handful of conservative strategists. https://www.project2025.org/
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How do you know this? You talked to all the people?
Give me a minute I will open a phone book and talk to everyone on the planet.
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@Greyparrot
Also I don't understand disagreeing that the human heart is the problem here. It is like op is trying to say the mass shooting was justified.
Stati g the heart is the problem is basically a truism that every intelligent liberal will agree with.
The disagreement between conservatives and liberals is what is a more practical approach to solve gun violence without infringing on people's freedoms.
The conservative is hypocritical in a sense about gun violence and I may start another thread about it, but essentially they believe in methods to control gun violence that are more indirect. Things such as bringing mental institutions back, while the left thinks the more practical approach is the direct approach of creating more gun control.
All I know is that it is extremely stupid to think the Maine shooter had his heart in the right place like op suggests
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@Greyparrot
A lot of that has to do with the inherent racism of white leftists or the feelings of inferiority by mi orities in America. The self hating minority is easy enough to notice, but the racist leftist is more subtle. Not in Roosevelt's case, he is open about his bigotry but with other leftists.
They inherently believe whites are superior and therefore it is their responsibility to help black men do what they can not do for themselves, due to their inferiority as humans.
They'll use copes like "systematic racism" but you don't need to be in a conversation with them too long to see their cognitive dissonance. They'll often blame the racism on poor white southerners, as if those are the people in banking institutions denying black people loans or if the redneck hunter is they guy who runs a fortune 500 company and is in charge of hiring mostly white executives.
The blame is an attempt to avoid the blame for their own internalized racism while maintaining their cognitive dissonance that seeks to cover their subconscious beliefs of the inferiority of blacks and their need to infantalize them to feel like a white savior.
The reason leftists have so much power now is largely due to women as well. Women have a nurturing instinct and since they are putting off child birth more and more, they substitute that nurturing instinct by getting cats or by pushing policies that seek to nurture humans they see as inferior such as non white refugees
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@Stephen
You are not differentiating between theist and Christian here. Is that intentional? Because I want to address parts of this but not sure if it is reasonable to do so.
For example I think it's just as fair to assume God is real as it is unreal and then build an understanding of the world that begins with that premise.
It can be stated that, it would be much logical to take neither position. However if a position must be chosen, it's fair for the theist to claim you have the same burden of proof to disprove God as they do to prove God.
I am probably arguing a strawman here, but I was wondering what you think your burden of proof is against theists as opposed to Christians.
Clearly a Christian has a higher burden of proof than just an atheist or theist in general, I wouldn't disagree with you if that is your point.
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But he’s full of shit. If the human heart was the problem, there would be a mass shooting problem all over the world. The United States is the only country that has a mass shooting problem.
There are countries that are gun heavy without the mass shooting problem. So there is something distinct about gun violence in America that is likely a cultural issue to a certain extent.
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@FLRW
Every US President didn't have a wife born in a Communist country except Trump
What is with you liberals simultaneously attacking people on their pedigree while claiming to be the voice of th working class?
I know you guys think a caste system will solve your problems, but you can look at the general incompetence of India and see why a meritocracy just works better.
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@Kazaan2397
None of the Palestinians themselves, who arguably bear the brunt of the suffering in this conflict, would blame Hamas over Israel for it, as far as I know.
Maybe not, but thy should. I think you know when you commit brutal acts there will be repercussions, and with hamas building their HQ under a hospital, refusing to allow Gazans to evacuate when bombings are announced for an area than there will be civilian casualties. The alternative to the collateral damage is 2 options.
1. Back off. Hamas literally launches rockets every day into Israel before this and will co tinue to do so unless eradicated so the danger of thousands being randomly raped and murdered in the name of Allah will persist. It's unethical and dangerous and hamas still uses aid to build up their defenses while the Palestinians suffer
2. Launch a ground invasion. There will still be collateral damage but since civilians are shields, and there is a complex tunnel system that is heavily booby trapped in place, you have a long drawn out war and arguably the civilians are worse off, but even more importantly from an Israel perspective is that you will suffer a large loss of military life, while more acceptable than civilian death, the large loss of life would be from the Israel side, despite the fact hamas will still die in bigger droves. It would be a very bloody war and maybe last 5 or 6 years if everything is fine and severely weaken Israel national security and since they are surrounded by hostile states it could end up with a defeated Israel.
The leaders of Palestinians in the Gaza strip have let them down. They were offered their own state 5 times. One time they were even offered 80% of what is now Israel, and they responded with a war where they partnered with 5 nations. Another offer of their own state and independence was followed up by another massacre of civilians because ultimately these people are cowards and avoid military targets.
The reason they reject a 2 state solution so often, even when it is very beneficial, like when they were offered 80% of Israel, is simply because the leaders of these people don't mind sacrificing their own people in spite of the Jews and have been quoted as saying that they will continue to be terrorists until the Palestinians are pushed back into the desert or Israel full of Palestinians and Jewish people are pushed into the sea.
This is similar to the Vietnam War, because of the guerilla tactics. It can only be ugly, but they have to destroy hamas so that way the residents of Gaza and Israel can live in peace
I also think you know full well why you can't just allow that region to be a part of Israel. The Gazans voted 42% in favor of hamas and most of the rest voted for the opposing party who was also full of extremists. Though these people are angry and maybe rightfully so, the majority still vote for terrorists and since they outnumber the jews, I think you already know they will just vote in whatever candidate votes for a holocaust part 2 and then they'll declare the entire country Palestine.
You do know this right?
That if everyone in Gaza laid down their weapons, there would be no war and if every Israely laid down their weapons it would be a genocide.
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More people than ever bitching about not being able to afford rent, groceries and gas, but I guess because billionaires got wealthier than the eco omy is doing great. Who would have thunk that forcing shutdowns would have bigger impacts on small businesses than billionaires abd who knew that mega Corps with their predatory practices could squeeze a higher margin from consumers.
They can keep repeating these lies that Biden saved th economy all they ant, but the working class people the democrats depend on to win elections know better.
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More bigotry from Roosevelt. Not surprising. Why do liberals refuse to judge a person without considering the color of their skin, economic status or sexual orientation. The man can't control whether his mom was a whore or not, and there is nothing wrong with coming from humble beginnings
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@sadolite
If the Jews or the Muslims were able to rule the world. The rest of us would be treated like sub human scum if either were to rule the world. They both should be wiped off the earth.
It's very tempting to wipe them from the planet and believe that will solve our problems. The average right wing leader is aware of the terrible things brought upon innoce t people from the ideals of leftists, the typical midwit Jew that promotes the ideals of leftism which is extremely harmful.
If we only slaughter the left or give them free helicopter rides it will solve the problems their subversive ideals cause and help us avoid becoming north korea or Venezuala and we can become a well functioning predominantly white state like Norway and Sweden.
I think God put us on earth to instead protect the left from their own stupidity. Yes despite leftism bringing a bunch of Muslims to America who can propagandize Americans to be pro hamas. Despite that leftist Jews basically created BLM and are too stupid to realize that black nationalists gravitate towards people like Louis farakhan and are anti Semitic. Despite the fact these stupid left leaning Jews have sewn the seeds of their own destruction. Despite the fact that they are still going to continue digging their own grave by voting for Biden by a large majority, we should still be the bigger people and save them.
They don’t deserve political power due to their suicidal tendencies, but they do deserve for us to save them
A real man provides for his family, even if they resent him for it. https://youtu.be/9-eQU4kw4Q4?si=uMloUSizQkp9IO9T
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@IlDiavolo
There is no quicker way to destroy the bill of rights than by having a direct democracy
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You know people sure do like batching that politicians don't make enough and then also bitch that they haven't read a bill. With a higher budget they can have a larger staff and at least have their staff read a bill more thoroughly so they can make a better educated decision. Plus 175k is shit whe. You know they have to have 2 mortgages. One in DC and one in their home state. They have to travel back and forth a lot and need houses good enough to be in safe locations. They should at least make 500k a year bare minimum. We also don't want politics being a rich man's game. Many people can't afford to quit their job for that shit salary, but by raising it to 500k it makes it easier for the average person to afford to be able to take the job, considering g the higher cost of living having that job entails
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@HistoryBuff
. A vote in kansas is worth many times more than a vote in california or texas.
Do you just respond without understanding the argument the other side is making? Zero effort on your part?
This is it just you focusing on an individuals vote. Rural Americans would have their needs completely ignored in your system. A politician could just let the 10 biggest cities completely decide an election and literally ignore the people who are not in those specific 10 cities. It's not about an individuals voting power. You already know this if you read my argument. People come from different areas and have different daily struggles and needs as a result of that.
Did you notice that big city people often need more government regulations as a result of living in close proximity to a lot of other people where rights can bump up against each other, while rural people who live 5 miles from their closest neighbors need less regulation for example on things like guns given their 20 minute police response time in their area? Or the city dweller needs to be more concerned about he homeless encroaching on their door step so typically want more social welfare programs?
Big cities have enough influence that both parties must consider their needs. Rural areas have enough influence that both parties have to reach out to them. This is how Bill Ckinton and Donald Trump both won the rust belt.
If a side only appeals to big city people like Jillary Clinton or only appeals to the rural type such as John McCain than they will lose.
A popular vote would allow Las Angela's to decide every election, and a popular vote gets even more stupid when you look at how much of a mess Florida's recount process was in the Bush Gore election. If we have a nationwide recount, you have to hand count 150 million votes. That may work for a small regionally close country like Ireland, It isn't going to work for the United States.
It's always children who think this is a good ideal. It just isn't. You probably also believe in term limits. There is usually a pattern with immature voters who just know what policies sound right without ever looking at why we have those policies to start with. Left or right side of the aisle doesn't matter, immature voters will typically believe all of the following g things
1. Electoral college bad
2. Term limit good
3. Powerful military bad
Those 3 issues alone pretty much prove horse shoe theory
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@Best.Korea
What's wrong with hating evil?
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@TheUnderdog
In his interests, why doesn't he do that? Then the GOP would have to advocate for abolishing the electoral college; because the person with the most votes should win no matter where those voters are located
Nobody serious would advocate for abolishing the electoral college. The United States created a system meant to get equal representation and making the voted of rural America not count wouldn't accomplish that. The primaries help with representation a bit because then democrats in red areas and Republicans in blue areas can make sure the presidential candidate they help get elected will have their interests in mind, but electing a presidential candidate that can literally only tour big cities and ignore the needs of rural areas isn't going to be fair. Besides that there are pragmatic challenges in close elections as well. A close election nationwide would require a ridiculous nationwide recount, while an electoral system can limit the recounts and other nightmares to an isolated area.
If republicans ever support a popular vote than they are either evil or stupid, because it just isn't practical. I wouldn't call your average American stupid for supporting a popular vote but politicians have 49l0 hours a week to study policy and impacts of policy and should know better
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I read a little bit further. There are no israeli settlements on the Gaza strip that I am aware of, besides that a civilized society wouldn't handle that issue by killing , raping and torturing women and children, particularly ones that have zero to do with it.
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