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n8nrgim

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how seriously should christians take the old testament?
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@Morphinekid77
"And, also, I would strongly challenge the idea that we are seeing healing miracles of the magnitude Christ performed today. "

even jesus said that his followers would go on to perform greater works than the people of his day saw. most people interpret that as miralces but is there more to it? i do acknowledge that we dont see the dead raised and such, but there are healings all the time, medically, even to this day. you might be right but i would be careful to say so, even the conventional wisdom of that bible verse, and the fact that miracles still happen to this day. 
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how seriously should christians take the old testament?
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@Morphinekid77
how can a consistent God at different times teach both? how does truth change? 
There are moral truths that transcend both covenants. i.e. murder was wrong before during and after the old covenant. But there are some moral stipulations that were for a specific time. Turn the other cheek is superior to eye for and eye, and is the recommended way for all nations. The Jews practiced eye for an eye because that was best for their society at the time
you are good at making general arguments, but i'm not seeing a deeper way of reconciling these apparently irreconciable truths. i understand that the purpose of love with both being good, but also being merciful when we aren't good, but i can't see saying the old testament idea of an eye for an eye was 'being good or good enough' when they are flatly contradictory. i could see if we said the old testament ideas were just cultural like we make about other old bible rules, but we are told that the old covenant was more than just cultural but a divine contract. i still maintain they seem to contradict each other on a moral truth level. 
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how seriously should christians take the old testament?
i also have some issues with how Jesus did mostly healing miracles, which we still see today, while the old testament has miracles that dont happy anymore of the same type, like the red sea being split. maybe he today he's not making the supernatural obvious by obviously supernatural things, leaving room for plausible deniablity and faith, given faith is a purpose of this life)
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how seriously should christians take the old testament?
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@Morphinekid77
how do you reconcile 'and eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth' with 'turn the cheek'? how can a consistent God at different times teach both? how does truth change? i realize jesus' death changes things, but why is that the case that they're different at all? why couldn't his death focus more on defeating sin and death, and not trying to square up things that look like contradictions? 
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how seriously should christians take the old testament?
im mostly looking for theological and philsophical ways to reconcile the basic covenants... eye for an eye, turn the cheek; salvation by works, salvation by faith. 

i still maintain it's possible to say the bible is inerrant, depending on how one interprets it, as i think i was self working out in my opening post. (i presented problems, then showed ways of reconciing them)

i do know, the new tesstament isn't as bad, except it has difficulties too (such as how jesus said no one can divorce except for unlawful sex reasons, then everyone in the church twists this to the point of breaking the rule, while claiming to beleive in an inerrant bible, and then holding gays to the standard of no gay sex, even when that could plauisbly the rationalized with the right interpreation while the divorce rule is clear and seemingly not open to interpration. except by reading to it things that aren't there)
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Is wu wei good religious teaching? Is taoism a good religion?
i like the bahi faith. it teaches a lot of truth that is similar to near death experiences. but it's based on the quran, which is self evidently a man made book and not of God (chopping off heads, chopping off hands, getting virgins at death etc) 

buddhism has a lot of englightened teachings, but it is just a philsophy that men have came up with, and doesn't try to pretend be more than that, or a 'true' religion. that's cool, but it's not the 'truth'. 

id throw in how ridiculous hinduism seems, but i dont know enough about it to talk about it. 

christianity is the only religion that teaches the truth. look at how its philsophy meshes with the human condition, seeking supernatural love and the importance o relationships. how it meshes with the message of near death experiences, which is obviously good evidence for the afterlife and self evidently to anyone without a stone heart, a message of God and enlightenment on the human condition. 
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how seriously should christians take the old testament?
on one of the most fundamental levels, the old testament teaches an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. the new testament teaches turn the other cheek. how can such a fundamental difference be something that a christian must accept both as infallible truth? does truth change? how?

but it's more than that core theological difference. the old testament has God killing people over and over again, or commanding them to die. see the story of noah where he killed the whole earth, or the time he turned a woman to stone for questioning where she was headed and looking back to her old lifei understand that it's plausible that the consequences of sin is death, which even the bible says and is as true a statement as they come. but it seems to again be in stark contrast to the God of the new testament. what's with this bipolar God of the new testament and the hippie God of the new testament? i realize even Jesus pointed out that the commandment and consequence of disrespecting ones parents is death, but how can such a difference be fundamentally compatible with each other? (i often wonder if jesus was being literal that that's the way the world is, or if he was saying 'even by this standard, the pharisees weren't being consistent with mercy')

but it's more than these broader frictions. the old testament says unclean food is ungodly, yet the new testament says nothing God has made clean is unclean. how should we accept that Jesus' death change something unclean to something clean? or the old testament says men with deformed penis' can't enter into the assembly of the lord, which sounds like they can't enter heaven. how did jesus' death make deformed penis' acceptable? and the context doesn't indicate this old testament verse was against self mutilation, but that any deformed penis was too much, even from a disability or injury. the best i can surmise, if these old testament verses are true... is that these are ceremonial laws, and ceremonial laws can change with a covenant change, assuming the covenant change was legit to begin with. it's kinda like how often cultural differences are legit changes in the bible, (why it says women can't lead or wear hats in church, even in the new testament, but everyone now accept as just cultural norms being changed) and not infallible differences being changed arbitrarily. ceremony and culture are both legit and reasonable ways of differentiating, but the theology for why the rules were the way they were to begin with, or how they can change, can still seem arbitrary and capricious, to use legal jargon.  

we also have things that dont make sense theologically.
-the bible looks literal of the story of noah in the old testament, and the new testament treats the story literal too. i dont have time to list all the scientific discrepancies of that story, such as how there's a constant lineage of cultures everywhere and constant archeological evidence of no flood everywhere, yet supposedly God destroyed it all... and hid or changed the evidence? to me, when God performs a miracle like he does with phsyical healings even in this day and age, he supports the miracle with evidence and truth. (such as the congregation of the causes of the saints with the catholic church) the story of noah isn't supported by evidence, but contradicts it. maybe it wasn't meant to be taken literally or was a local event? 
-i'll add more examples in the future. 
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It's Insurrection Day!
ALL HAIL OUR LORD AND SAVIOR, DONALD JOHN TRUMP. 
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Should Christians follow moral absolutism? Did Jesus follow moral absolutism?
Jesus said if a man doesn't have a sword then let him get one. He also said to turn the cheek, but that's more to do with accepting being wronged is good sometimes, and to let smaller things slide.

Jesus didn't fight back, but he could have. That was his sacrifice... he let sin and death, take him down. he conquered it in the end anyway, by his resurrection 
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6 argument proof that Christian God cannot exist
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@Best.Korea
It's not that there r no answers to the issues you pose that could help explain god, it's just that you find the answers unacceptable. That's your choice, but you shouldn't pretend there's no way to explain it
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Why Trump should be disqualified - Legal arguments only
i ddn't read all the opening post, but it didn't look like an insurrection to me. i see there are arguments for and against him egging them on, but if it was truly an insurrection, i think it would be clearer. i dont think he'd say to 'peaceably' protest like he did. i realize that's just one point in the pro v con of whether it was an insurrection, but at most i see that he egged them on. his opponents are trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. 
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Is life just a game? And if so, why did I choose the hardest difficulty?
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@Best.Korea
you just ignored dude's point, that compared to the vast majority of our ancestors, your modern life is pretty luxurious and privileged. all you said was that you hate your life, but you ignored the point that your life is actually probably better than the vast majority of humans that existed.  

also the conventional wisdom is that only the toughest players get so much of the struggle. 

id try your best to improve your situation. try to make friends given relationships are the biggest determinant of happiness. and then also try to embrace looking at the positive side of things, and try to choose to be happy, cause as they say, happiness is a choice. to the extent that you can, of course. and use your priveleged role as a modern human, and get some help for your mental help. 

work towards self improvement. life is meaningless without struggle. 
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Islam vs. Christianity
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@aql_reason
"Yes and the modern world blows up peoples heads with bombs and drones. Same stuff, diffrent times. "Teaches about virgins" - You can get whatever you want in heaven (logically). So why is asking for virgins a bad thing? What is self-evident. The only thing self-evident is the lack of critical thinking here. "

this is one of the stupidest arguments i ever heard, regarding trying to rationalize chopping of heads and hands. and you claim it's me not thinking critically. 

really think about this. does the God of love that you pretend to worship, really wanting you to chop of heads and hands, and focus on getting lots of sex when you die? does that really sound like a divine plan to you? it's obviously as man made of a teaching, as we can get. 
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Shake ya ass, but watch yaself... shake ya ass, but watch yaself... shake ya ass, show me what ya workin' with
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Islam vs. Christianity
The quaran talks about cutting off heads and hands. I dunno if it's official teaching, but also teaches getting a bunch of virgins at death. This all seems self evident ally, not from god
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
i typed wrong... this is what this paragraph should say

"the other thing you messing up on, is that i gave you hard science, yet, like an atheist or skeptic, you just choose to ignore it. like this thread says, it's illogical to claim i haven't presented evidence FOR THE AFTERLIFE in this thread. the bible isn't the only source for evidence for the afterlife, but yes the bible is evidence too."

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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@Tradesecret
so it sounds like you use the bible to disregard NDEs. i see two problems with that.

i think you r misinterpreting the bible, cause you follow fundamentalism that says non christians can't be saved. if you look at the verses where jesus says who isn't saved, it's those who reject the light for the darkness. those who reject jesus. the bible says no where that all non christians go to hell. the good news of the gospel, is that if you are a chrsiitan, though, you will be saved.  jesus said he came to save the world, not condemn it. those who reject the light are already condemned, says the bible. i do take caution in that NDEs often make it seem like everyone is saved, when even NDEs show at least one percent of NDEs as negative, and there's lots who die and come back and dont experience anything... so i understand the need for caution.

the other thing you messing up on, is that i gave you hard science, yet, like an atheist or skeptic, you just choose to ignore it. like this thread says, it's illogical to claim i haven't presented evidence for the bible in this thread. the bible isn't the only source for evidence for the afterlife, but yes the bible is evidence too. 

your problem is that you are clinging to man made religions instead of the truth in the bible, and in science. even christians can get caught up in the pit falls of religion, dont be mistaken. 

so yes, unfortunately you are distorting truth, science, philopsphy, theology, and spirituality... for the sake of religion. 
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A normal Republican with a brain? What an anomaly
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@Best.Korea
I agree that transformers should have the same rights as everyone else 
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A normal Republican with a brain? What an anomaly
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@Best.Korea
WE HAVE THE FACTS AND WE'RE VOTING 'YES'
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@Tradesecret
You've said that before, that ndes don't convince you of anything. But given u believe in the afterlife to begin with, it especially don't make sense to me. Do you think it's common for people to hallucinate elaborate afterlife stories when they die, and supposedly this is meaningless? What about the fact that out of body phenomenon is shown accurate under scientific conditions? That the blind see? I wouldn't think someone who believes in the afterlife would torture their logic and all the evidence, like skeptics do.
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What is your best argument for/against the existence of God?
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@IlDiavolo
@Double_R
Double has a frequent tendency of arguing that he is right, by definition, on issues that r at best debatable. 
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@Stephen
I recall brother Thomas saying he frequented prostitutes. I'm just following in the footsteps of TRUE Christians, praise!

Is it so hard to believe that I'm a female from Afghanistan that utilizes the services of sex workers?
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Is it gay that I get turned on, when you bible slap me silly? 

I hope I don't get in legal trouble for using your trademark, 'bible slap... silly'
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
What is a juggalo? A freakin lunatic... somebody with rope tied to his dick. Then he jumps out a ten story window... oh. 
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What is your best argument for/against the existence of God?
things that look like supernatural healings occur to christians, and we can't say for sure similar things happen to atheists, or much at all to other religions. 

the large majority of NDE experiencers come back believing in God if they were atheist to begin with. it's almost never that theists become atheists, and atheists dont usually just see what they'd expect for death or afterlife. 

i realize there are ways to poke holes on these, but common sense is that these are scientific evidences of God. 

then causality and design. 'every effect has a cause, the universe looks like an effect, and there might be an uncaused cause'. this is more 'consistent with God' than evidence, but these are decent philoophical arguments too. 

i use to say atheism is irrational, but now i say it's plausibly rational but lacking in common sense. 

i still say it's irrational to argue there's no evidence for the afterlife, though. 
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
jesus loves me, this i know, for the bible tells me so. little ones to him belong, they are weak, but he is strong. yes, jesus loves me. yes, jesus loves me. yes, jesus loves me... the bible tells me so. 
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I have doubts that more than a handful of people actually exist in this world anymore.
life's a journey, not a destination
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
i dont take your posts seriously.  your posts are a charade, and i wonder how long you will keep up the charade... and i question your mental health.  it's not worth engaging seriously with you, but you do provide me entertainment value. your efforts posting here, are to my amusement. so continue... and dance, monkey, dance. 
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Why don't atheists murder their enemies and bad people more often? Or visit prostitutes
I think if you remove the objective standard of God, a case could be made for a lot different morals.

If your enemy is ruining your life, is the only thing stopping you from murdering them that it's against the law? If you feel there is a deeper truth involved stopping you, what is that basis? 

And why don't you pay for prostitutes if you are horny? I often tell people, if it wasn't for my Christian faith, I'd frequent sex workers a whole lot more. Is the idea that you feel you're exploiting them so don't do it? I think a basis could be made sometimes that it's not exploitation, but even if it was... why would you care?
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do the benefits of global warming outweigh the costs?


i fear drought from climate change. some say overall it's better for agriculture for it to get warmer.  

the real fear is the uncertainty. and it's a fact that there will be winners and losers with climate change. what if there's a net positive?


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Climate change has done more good than harm so far and is likely to continue doing so for most of this century. This is not some barmy, right-wing fantasy; it is the consensus of expert opinion. Yet almost nobody seems to know this. Whenever I make the point in public, I am told by those who are paid to insult anybody who departs from climate alarm that I have got it embarrassingly wrong, don’t know what I am talking about, must be referring to Britain only, rather than the world as a whole, and so forth.
At first, I thought this was just their usual bluster. But then I realised that they are genuinely unaware. Good news is no news, which is why the mainstream media largely ignores all studies showing net benefits of climate change. And academics have not exactly been keen to push such analysis forward. So here follows, for possibly the first time in history, an entire article in the national press on the net benefits of climate change.
There are many likely effects of climate change: positive and negative, economic and ecological, humanitarian and financial. And if you aggregate them all, the overall effect is positive today — and likely to stay positive until around 2080. That was the conclusion of Professor Richard Tol of Sussex University after he reviewed 14 different studies of the effects of future climate trends.
To be precise, Prof Tol calculated that climate change would be beneficial up to 2.2˚C of warming from 2009 (when he wrote his paper). This means approximately 3˚C from pre-industrial levels, since about 0.8˚C of warming has happened in the last 150 years. The latest estimates of climate sensitivity suggest that such temperatures may not be reached till the end of the century — if at all. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, whose reports define the consensis, is sticking to older assumptions, however, which would mean net benefits till about 2080. Either way, it’s a long way off.
Now Prof Tol has a new paper, published as a chapter in a new book, called How Much have Global Problems Cost the World?, which is edited by Bjorn Lomborg, director of the Copenhagen Consensus Centre, and was reviewed by a group of leading economists. In this paper he casts his gaze backwards to the last century. He concludes that climate change did indeed raise human and planetary welfare during the 20th century.
You can choose not to believe the studies Prof Tol has collated. Or you can say the net benefit is small (which it is), you can argue that the benefits have accrued more to rich countries than poor countries (which is true) or you can emphasise that after 2080 climate change would probably do net harm to the world (which may also be true). You can even say you do not trust the models involved (though they have proved more reliable than the temperature models). But what you cannot do is deny that this is the current consensus. If you wish to accept the consensus on temperature models, then you should accept the consensus on economic benefit.

Overall, Prof Tol finds that climate change in the past century improved human welfare. By how much? He calculates by 1.4 per cent of global economic output, rising to 1.5 per cent by 2025. For some people, this means the difference between survival and starvation.
It will still be 1.2 per cent around 2050 and will not turn negative until around 2080. In short, my children will be very old before global warming stops benefiting the world. Note that if the world continues to grow at 3 per cent a year, then the average person will be about nine times as rich in 2080 as she is today. So low-lying Bangladesh will be able to afford the same kind of flood defences that the Dutch have today.
The chief benefits of global warming include: fewer winter deaths; lower energy costs; better agricultural yields; probably fewer droughts; maybe richer biodiversity. It is a little-known fact that winter deaths exceed summer deaths — not just in countries like Britain but also those with very warm summers, including Greece. Both Britain and Greece see mortality rates rise by 18 per cent each winter. Especially cold winters cause a rise in heart failures far greater than the rise in deaths during heatwaves.
Cold, not the heat, is the biggest killer. For the last decade, Brits have been dying from the cold at the average rate of 29,000 excess deaths each winter. Compare this to the heatwave ten years ago, which claimed 15,000 lives in France and just 2,000 in Britain. In the ten years since, there has been no summer death spike at all. Excess winter deaths hit the poor harder than the rich for the obvious reason: they cannot afford heating. And it is not just those at risk who benefit from moderate warming. Global warming has so far cut heating bills more than it has raised cooling bills. If it resumes after its current 17-year hiatus, and if the energy efficiency of our homes improves, then at some point the cost of cooling probably will exceed the cost of heating — probably from about 2035, Prof Tol estimates.
The greatest benefit from climate change comes not from temperature change but from carbon dioxide itself. It is not pollution, but the raw material from which plants make carbohydrates and thence proteins and fats. As it is an extremely rare trace gas in the air — less than 0.04 per cent of the air on average — plants struggle to absorb enough of it. On a windless, sunny day, a field of corn can suck half the carbon dioxide out of the air. Commercial greenhouse operators therefore pump carbon dioxide into their greenhouses to raise plant growth rates.

The increase in average carbon dioxide levels over the past century, from 0.03 per cent to 0.04 per cent of the air, has had a measurable impact on plant growth rates. It is responsible for a startling change in the amount of greenery on the planet. As Dr Ranga Myneni of Boston University has documented, using three decades of satellite data, 31 per cent of the global vegetated area of the planet has become greener and just 3 per cent has become less green. This translates into a 14 per cent increase in productivity of ecosystems and has been observed in all vegetation types.
Dr Randall Donohue and colleagues of the CSIRO Land and Water department in Australia also analysed satellite data and found greening to be clearly attributable in part to the carbon dioxide fertilisation effect. Greening is especially pronounced in dry areas like the Sahel region of Africa, where satellites show a big increase in green vegetation since the 1970s.
It is often argued that global warming will hurt the world’s poorest hardest. What is seldom heard is that the decline of famines in the Sahel in recent years is partly due to more rainfall caused by moderate warming and partly due to more carbon dioxide itself: more greenery for goats to eat means more greenery left over for gazelles, so entire ecosystems have benefited.
Even polar bears are thriving so far, though this is mainly because of the cessation of hunting. None the less, it’s worth noting that the three years with the lowest polar bear cub survival in the western Hudson Bay (1974, 1984 and 1992) were the years when the sea ice was too thick for ringed seals to appear in good numbers in spring. Bears need broken ice.
Well yes, you may argue, but what about all the weather disasters caused by climate change? Entirely mythical — so far. The latest IPCC report is admirably frank about this, reporting ‘no significant observed trends in global tropical cyclone frequency over the past century … lack of evidence and thus low confidence regarding the sign of trend in the magnitude and/or frequency offloads on a global scale … low confidence in observed trends in small-scale severe weather phenomena such as hail and thunderstorms’.
In fact, the death rate from droughts, floods and storms has dropped by 98 per cent since the 1920s, according to a careful study by the independent scholar Indur Goklany. Not because weather has become less dangerous but because people have gained better protection as they got richer: witness the remarkable success of cyclone warnings in India last week. That’s the thing about climate change — we will probably pocket the benefits and mitigate at least some of the harm by adapting. For example, experts now agree that malaria will continue its rapid worldwide decline whatever the climate does.
Yet cherry-picking the bad news remains rife. A remarkable example of this was the IPCC’s last report in 2007, which said that global warming would cause ‘hundreds of millions of people [to be] exposed to increased water stress’ under four different scenarios of future warming. It cited a study, which had also counted numbers of people at reduced risk of water stress — and in each case that number was higher. The IPCC simply omitted the positive numbers.
Why does this matter? Even if climate change does produce slightly more welfare for the next 70 years, why take the risk that it will do great harm thereafter? There is one obvious reason: climate policy is already doing harm. Building wind turbines, growing biofuels and substituting wood for coal in power stations — all policies designed explicitly to fight climate change — have had negligible effects on carbon dioxide emissions. But they have driven people into fuel poverty, made industries uncompetitive, driven up food prices, accelerated the destruction of forests, killed rare birds of prey, and divided communities. To name just some of the effects. Mr Goklany estimates that globally nearly 200,000 people are dying every year, because we are turning 5 per cent of the world’s grain crop into motor fuel instead of food: that pushes people into malnutrition and death. In this country, 65 people a day are dying because they cannot afford to heat their homes properly, according to Christine Liddell of the University of Ulster, yet the government is planning to double the cost of electricity to consumers by 2030.
As Bjorn Lomborg has pointed out, the European Union will pay £165 billion for its current climate policies each and every year for the next 87 years. Britain’s climate policies — subsidising windmills, wood-burners, anaerobic digesters, electric vehicles and all the rest — is due to cost us £1.8 trillion over the course of this century. In exchange for that Brobdingnagian sum, we hope to lower the air temperature by about 0.005˚C — which will be undetectable by normal thermometers. The accepted consensus among economists is that every £100 spent fighting climate change brings £3 of benefit.
So we are doing real harm now to impede a change that will produce net benefits for 70 years. That’s like having radiotherapy because you are feeling too well. I just don’t share the certainty of so many in the green establishment that it’s worth it. It may be, but it may not.
Disclosure: by virtue of owning shares and land, I have some degree of interests in all almost all forms of energy generation: coal, wood, oil and gas, wind (reluctantly), nuclear, even biofuels, demand for which drives up wheat prices. I could probably make more money out of enthusiastically endorsing green energy than opposing it. So the argument presented here is not special pleading, just honest curiosity.

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did or does God support abortion in some circumstances based on the bible?
20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[a] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”

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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
well, you ignored my post, so. tell me more about how i'm heaping coals on my head and storing up God's wrath upon my soul, and maybe i'll feel compelled to engage in your charade. 
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@FLRW
dmt doesn't explain how there's objective measures of out of body experiences. or vision to the blind. or the other lines of evidence. 

drugs, dreams, and hallucinations in all other avenues of life, dont cause elaborate afterlife stories, with common afterlife elements such as tunnels and beings of light and life reviews etc, that almost always are more real than this reality to the experiencers and that almost always give them no fear of death. 

either respond logically to the evidence, or admit you just ignore it to preserve your own world view. 
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
upon my earthly demise... am i heaping burning coals upon my head? and storing up the wrath of God upon my soul?
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@FLRW
see my last few posts 
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@zedvictor4
repeated anecdotes of objective measurements, is more than just flimsy heresay. it's evidence. not even weak evidence. 
 
either my last post is true, or it's not true. ya'll aren't giving reasons why it's not true. 

ya'll are just ignoring evidence and being illogical. 
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@Stephen
see last post. 

2. Realistic Out-of-Body Experiences: Out-of-body experiences (OBEs) are one of the most common elements of NDEs. What NDErs see and hear of earthly events in the out-of-body state is almost always realistic. When the NDEr or others later seek to verify what was observed or heard during the NDE, the OBE observations are almost always confirmed as completely accurate. Even if the OBE observations during the NDE included events far from the physical body, and far from any possible sensory awareness of the NDEr, the OBE observations are still almost always confirmed as completely accurate. This fact alone rules out the possibility that near-death experiences are related to any known brain functioning or sensory awareness. This also refutes the possibility that NDEs are unrealistic fragments of memory from the brain.

"In a little over 40 percent of my surveys, NDE"rs observed things that were geographically far from their physical body, that were way outside of any possible physical central awareness. Typically, someone who has an NDE with an out-of-body experience comes back and reports what they saw and heard while floating around, it"s about 98 percent accurate in every way. For example, in one account someone who coded in the operating room had an out-of-body experience where their consciousness traveled to the hospital cafeteria where they saw and heard their family and others talking, completely unaware that they had coded. They were absolutely correct in what they saw."

that book cites a literature review, of other science articles that measure this, and out of body experiences are almost always 'accurate or consistent' with reality 
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
The Nine Lines of Evidence from Evidence of the Afterlife: The Science of Near-Death Experiences:

1. Crystal-Clear Consciousness. The level of consciousness and alertness during near-death experiences (NDEs) is usually even greater than that experienced in everyday life even though NDEs generally occur when a person is unconscious or clinically dead. This high level of consciousness while physically unconscious is medically inexplicable. Additionally, the elements in NDEs generally follow the same consistent and logical order in all age groups and around the world, which refutes the possibility that NDEs have any relation to dreams or hallucinations.

2. Realistic Out-of-Body Experiences: Out-of-body experiences (OBEs) are one of the most common elements of NDEs. What NDErs see and hear of earthly events in the out-of-body state is almost always realistic. When the NDEr or others later seek to verify what was observed or heard during the NDE, the OBE observations are almost always confirmed as completely accurate. Even if the OBE observations during the NDE included events far from the physical body, and far from any possible sensory awareness of the NDEr, the OBE observations are still almost always confirmed as completely accurate. This fact alone rules out the possibility that near-death experiences are related to any known brain functioning or sensory awareness. This also refutes the possibility that NDEs are unrealistic fragments of memory from the brain.

3. Heightened Senses. Not only are heightened senses reported by most who have experienced NDEs, normal or supernormal vision has occurred in those with significantly impaired vision, and even legal blindness. Several people who have been totally blind since birth have reported highly visual near-death experiences. This is medically inexplicable.

4. Consciousness During Anesthesia. Many NDEs occur while under general anesthesia- at a time when any conscious experience should be impossible. While some skeptics claim that these NDEs may be the result of too little anesthesia, this ignores the fact that some NDEs result from anesthesia overdose. Additionally, the description of a NDE differs greatly from that of one who experiences 'anesthetic awareness.' The content of NDEs that occur under general anesthesia is essentially indistinguishable from NDEs that did not occur under general anesthesia. This is further strong evidence that NDEs are occurring completely independently from the functioning of the physical brain.

5. Perfect Playback. Life reviews in near-death experiences include real events that previously took place in the lives of those having the experience, even if the events were forgotten or happened before they were old enough to remember.

6. Family Reunions. During a NDE, the people encountered are virtually always deceased, and are usually relatives of the person having the experience- sometimes they are even relatives who died before the NDEr was born. Were the NDE only a product of memory fragments, they would almost certainly include far more living people, including those with whom they had more recently interacted.

7. Children's Experiences. The near-death experiences of children, including very young children who are too young to have developed concepts of death, religion, or near-death experiences, are essentially identical to those of older children and adults. This refutes the possibility that the content of NDEs is produced by preexisting beliefs or cultural conditioning.

8. Worldwide Consistency. Near-death experiences appear remarkably consistent around the world, and across many different religions and cultures. NDEs from non-Western countries are incredibly similar to those that occur in people in Western countries.

9. Aftereffects. It is common for people to experience major life changes after having near-death experiences. These aftereffects are often powerful, lasting, life-enhancing, and the changes generally follow a consistent pattern. As the NDErs themselves almost always believe- near-death experiences are, in a word, real.

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third party elections are stupid
the main reason they are stupid, is that the persons who are most similar will get a split vote. if the green party runs, it spits the vote with dems. if a libertarians runs, it splits with republicans. often, the most popular segment could lose, simply because of a split vote. this split vote thing, is called a 'spoiler effect'. the founding fathers weren't thinking straight when they made our electoral system. 

on a related note, our system sucks, cause it's 'plurality voting', even if a politician is unpopular, they can take the primary or general election by getting a plurality that's less than a majority. trump v clinton... both were unpopular, yet they were foisted on the stage by plurality voting 
i can relate to wanting options in our elections by third, fourth parties are not the way to do it. research rank choice voting, or approval method voting. those systems fix the problems we have with our system. 
plus we do have primaries where there is often lots of choice. it's fair and sensible to only have two candidates if others were fairly evaluated and processed in the election. 

all those 'we need third party' advocates dont know what they're arguing. i liked that idea when i was younger, only cause i was stupid and ignorant. these third party advocates seem so low brow and low intelligence 
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Marxism - How rich countries exploit poor countries through disbalanced trade
'race to the bottom' happens because poor countries cant compete. there's effectively an unlimited supply of labor if you count all the people in poor countries, and you can pay them beans to do your bidding if there's no rules against it. this causes the most ruthless businesses to have the upper hand in the market, cause their expenses are the lowest, so governments and businesses try to deregulate safety evironmental regs and drive down wages... all to the point where labor is poorly compensated everywhere and where good politcies are repealed or not enacted. 
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@zedvictor4
if people are accurately describing what happens outside of their body... this has meaning and significance, scientifically. the only way to pretend this doesn't indicate something... is to ignore the evidence. i could see trying to say the evidence isn't credible, but you guys aren't making that argument, and it looks like a completely baseless assertion if you did. if out of body experiences are literally being indicated, that gives weight to the idea that there's an afterlife, given these concepts are almost always intricately related. 

you guys just do logic leaps, and aren't being scientific. as i keep making painfully obvious when ya'll give replies, ya'll are not arguing coherently or rationally.
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@FLRW
What about the scientific studies that show out of body descriptions that r almost always, when investigated, accurate or consistent with reality?

Sight to the blind?

It's pretty clear you just choose to ignore this stuff
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it is irrational to argue that there's no evidence for the afterlife
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@Stephen
@zedvictor4
@FLRW

how is the out of body data not considered evidence? there's credible individual anecdotes, such as the pam rynolds case or lots of doctors verifying things that couldn't possibly be known. when studied under scientific conditions... there's a trend that out of body descriptions are almost always accurate, or at least consistent with reality while they were dead. when people guess wildly what happened when they are dead, it's usually inaccurate. 

plus the visual experiences in people who are blind. 

how is this stuff not evidence? you have to ignore it to claim it's not evidence. or, commit the invincible ignorance fallacy and argue that a consistent trend of anecdotes doesn't equal evidence. 

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Biggest mistake of Christians, and why Christianity is dying
the bears point, it could be argued that God allowed the bears to attack them... not that he sent the bears to attack them. 

but even when God kills people or orders them killed,, in the old testament... it's because of something sinful they or their parents did. we have to accept the premise that sinning or being part of a lineage of sin, is worthy of the death penalty.

even as a christian who loves God with all my heart, i could understand being hesitant about the old testament. but i try to give it the benefit of the doubt, and defer to it unless i can find an obvious error, which i never have. it's all about interpretation, plus looking at sin as worthy of death. 

i know there's weird things in the old testament... like saying a deformed penis makes you unworthy of heaven. or saying some foods are unclean, then i guess cause of Jesus the foods are no longer unclean? stuff like this doesn't sound inspired by God, but it's above my pay grade to say for sure. 
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Science time - How to burn less calories and save on food by needing less food
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@Best.Korea
i reject your reality... and substitute it with my own reality 
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As Christmas nears, its good to remind ourselves that ...
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@Best.Korea
there is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is his prophet? 
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As Christmas nears, its good to remind ourselves that ...
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@zedvictor4
festivus is from Seinfeld. you must not be a Seinfeld devotee... which is very uncool. 
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As Christmas nears, its good to remind ourselves that ...
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@zedvictor4
happy festivus for the rest of us
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PROPOSAL: Use of Electors in Sub-Presidential Races
there's also rank method voting, and approval rating method voting. electors throws in a wild card, id rather the election be based on the actual votes, not electors. i haven't taken the time to fully consider this elector method, though. 
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Science of happiness - Is happiness stored in the brain?
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@zedvictor4
it's good to point out that everyone is different... but when we're trying to talk in general terms, all we can really do is talk in generalizations. 
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