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@Deb-8-a-bull
@FLRW
Lmao you athiests crying on my post are so funny
read the books of Edward Feser, such as "5 proves for the existence of God"
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Lol i came to this website 1 month after i converted to islam, when i was a layman, and you presented arguments that you got while spending years trying to debunk islam and despite this, i slapped you around and refuted all of your claims, if you still want to debate, just know that you're gonna get slammed
it is without a doubt that i dominated you in our first discussion, no wonder im still living rent free in your mind, no wonder you want to debate, youve become so desentized to getting refuted by us musims, showcasing your effeminate personality
“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an." (Qur'an 8:12) Your sickening Allah Gods inspired words in the passage shown are to be followed by Muslims
We already talked about this in our first discussion? dont you remember? ive already refuted all the claims youve brought, you have nothing to bring as evidence anymore
therefore, when was the last time you beheaded a Christian because they do not accept your horrific Qur'an? Can you tell us, when?
The first time i mentally and intellectually beheaded a christian was when i refuted your claims about islam
i refute your religion all the time, alhamdulillah
Do you want to get intellectually beheaded again?
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@rosends
whats the link
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Preferably one where the person proves the existence of God and wins
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The battle of Karbala; this was Muslim "Brother" against Muslim "Brother" wasn't it?
Imam Hussein (AS), along with his companions, stood as the sole representatives of the Muslim faith in the Battle of Karbala. Their purpose was to safeguard Islam from the oppressive rule of Yazid, the tyrant leader.
Yazid (May Allah curse him) sought Imam Hussein's (the Grandson of the Prophet) allegiance to validate his own authority, but Imam Hussein refused, as he recognized the detrimental consequences of Yazid's leadership. In his noble resistance, Imam Hussein fought to protect the principles and teachings of Islam.
Yazid's actions included the legalization of alcohol, the destruction of the Kaaba, and the tragic assassination of the Prophet's Grandson, Imam Hussein.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
I apologize for the lack of clarity in your message. May Allah (Subhanahu Wa ta'ala) provide you with guidance.
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@zedvictor4
Based on your statement, it seems that you hold the belief that individuals engage in laughter, happiness, and dancing during funeral proceedings.
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@zedvictor4
Please refrain from mocking our mourning. We express our sorrow in a dignified manner by gently patting our chests instead of forcefully pounding them.
And yep, Battle of KarbalaCould have had a partyBut no.Preferred fighting.That's intelligent organisms for you.
Even with a minimal amount of knowledge, one would recognize the historical significance of the Battle of Karbala. However, your apparent ignorance prevents you from understanding its profound importance. Imam Hussein (Aleyhis Salam) valiantly martyrised his life, safeguarding Islam from Yazid (May Allah Curse him).
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@Stephen
@FLRW
blood letting is called "tatbir" and not many shias do it, most shias like me do "latum" or "sine-zani" which means chest beating, and we do on ashura (in 20 days i think) in order to mourn the death of Imam hussein (Aleyhis salam), who is the grandson of Prophet's Muhammad (SAWS), He died at Karbala as a martyr. Hope this explains it for you
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@Sidewalker
just looking for shia muslims because ive only seen sunni ones so far
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@Sir.Lancelot
LMAO so you're telling me i refuted and debated with a fake christian troll this whole time?
well, at least he pushed me to learn more about religion and how to debate better
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BrotherD.Thomas,
i cant tag you right now as you are banned,
but, i gotta say you are good at trolling
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@swordburial17
Salam Aleikum brother, you seem to be new
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@Sir.Lancelot
I dont accept this debate because i am not knowledged enough on Mormonism
I am still learning about islam, and i was born a non-muslim as you can see in my bio, i converted to islam one month before joining debateart.com
I am still learning about islam, and i was born a non-muslim as you can see in my bio, i converted to islam one month before joining debateart.com
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@YouFound_Lxam
surah maryam 88-92
Surah ikhlas 1-4
Surah ikhlas 1-4
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@BrotherD.Thomas
The Age of Marriage in the Bible
It is well-established that people tended to marry early in ancient societies. This is neither a matter of debate nor controversy. Even up to the 20th century, it was not uncommon for girls as young as 10 years old to get legally married.[3] Biblical times were no different.
Psychologist Dr. Robert Epstein observes that there are no age restrictions mentioned in the Bible (the Tanakh or the New Testament), except one for “military conscription” (20 years) and one for priests (25 years).[4] He then states that (emphasis ours):
“[a]ge requirements are lacking for just about every other activity or right or penalty one can imagine: ruling, marrying, having children, working, being punished for breaking a law, owning property, making blind agreements, drinking alcohol, leaving home, traveling, studying, riding chariots, and so on. Young people in the Bible did it all.”[5]
He also provides the well-known example of Mary’s age when she gave birth to Jesus (peace be upon him). Despite the protests of some Christians, it is almost certain that, given the marriage practices of her time, Mary would have been married by age 12 and conceived Jesus no later than age 13.[6] Epstein states that (emphasis ours):
“[h]istorians are pretty sure that Mary had just entered puberty when Jesus was conceived. As a peasant in Nazareth she almost certainly would have been married off around the time [of] puberty. […] In short, there is every reason to believe that the Virgin Mary–the mother of one of the world’s major religions–was a young mother indeed.”[7]
So, in Mary and Jesus’ time, the earliest appropriate age of marriage was around the onset of puberty, which was around age 12. The Mishnah, which was completed around the beginning of the 3rd century CE, notes this as the average age as well.[8]
Evidence from the New Testament and Christian History –
Evidence for this view can be found in the New Testament and extra-biblical sources, such as the early church fathers. In Mark 5, Jesus revives a 12-year old girl (Mark 5:42). However, in Luke’s version, the girl’s age was “about twelve” (Luke 8:42). However, in Matthew 9, no age is given. This is explained in the commentary on Matthew 9:18 in Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible:
“Mark calls her his ‘little daughter’: though both he and Luke say, she was about ‘twelve’ years of age, and that with strict propriety, according to the Jewish canons, which say; that ‘a daughter, from the day of her birth until she is twelve years complete, is called ‘a little one’ and when she is twelve years of age, and one day and upwards, she is called ‘a young woman’.’’”[9]
Thus, the girl would have been called a “child” if she was up to exactly 12 years old, but if she had been even one day older than 12, she was no longer a “child” but a “young woman”. This was the custom of the time.
Furthermore, Luke provides corroboration that Jesus’ parents also followed the customs of the time as pious Jews. In chapter 2, Luke mentions that they used to go to Jerusalem every year for Passover (verse 41), but then he mentions specifically that they took Jesus (peace be upon him) to Jerusalem “when he was twelve years old” and that this was “according to the custom” (verse 42). Earlier, Luke had stated that they followed the “Law of the Lord” (verse 39). What was the significance of Jesus’ age? Why does Luke even mention it? The Cambridge Bible for Schools and Colleges provides the answer (emphasis ours):
“Up to this age a Jewish boy was called ‘little,’ afterwards he was called ‘grown up,’ and became a ‘Son of the Law,’ or ‘Son of the Precepts.’ At this age he was presented on the Sabbath called the ‘Sabbath of Phylacteries’ in the Synagogue, and began to wear the phylacteries with which his father presented him.”[10]
Ellicott’s Commentary for English Readers concurs:
“It was, therefore in strict accordance with usage, with perhaps a slight anticipation of the actual day, that the “child Jesus” should, at the age of twelve, have gone up with His parents to Jerusalem.”[11]
Barnes’ Notes on the Bible adds that (emphasis ours):
“[a]ll males among the Hebrews were required to appear three times a year before God, to attend on the ordinances of religion in the temple, and it is probable that this was the age at which they first went up to Jerusalem…”[12]
Other commentaries also agree, including Coffman’s Commentaries on the Bible,[13] the Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary,[14] the Expositor’s Greek Testament,[15] and Vincent’s Word Studies.[16] John Lightfoot even cited the Talmudic adage:
“Let a man deal gently with his son till he come to be twelve years old: but from that time, let him descend with him into his way of living…”[17]
Some commentaries note that the age was 13 years. Thus, Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible states that:
“[n]ot that he was now, “a son of the commandment”, (r) to use the Jewish phrase; or now came under the yoke of the law; or was obliged to the duties of adult church membership, as is asserted by some; nor particularly to go to Jerusalem to make his appearance at the feast of the passover, or any other feast: for according to the maxims of the Jews, persons were not obliged to the duties of the law, or subject to the penalties of it in case of non-performance, until they were, a female, at the age of twelve years, and one day, and a male, at the age of thirteen years, and one day…”[18]
Nevertheless, Gill explained that Jesus’ age was still significant since:
“…they used to train up their children, and inure them to religious exercises before…”
Moreover, he noted that going to Jerusalem for the festival was a religious duty on the part of Mary and Joseph:
“…after the custom of the feast of the passover, it shows their religious regard to him; and may be an instruction to parents, to bring up their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord…”
Thomas Coke also explained the verse this way (emphasis ours):
“To shew how eminent Jesus was for his wisdom even in his childhood, the evangelist gives us the remarkable instance here recorded. When he was twelve years of age his parents carried him up to the passover, with a view to instil an early regard for religion and its precepts into his tender mind. See Exodus 34:23. Deuteronomy 16:16. It is generally allowed by learned men, that twelve was the age when young people, according to the Jewish maxims, came under the yoke of the law.”
Moreover, the “custom” of bringing all males to a festival is mentioned in the Bible, though a specific minimum age is not mentioned:
“Three times a year all the men are to appear before the Sovereign Lord.”[19]
However, only adult men were likely required to come, as Ellicott’s Commentary for English Readers explains:
“By “all thy males” we must understand all of full age and not incapacitated by infirmity or illness.”[20]
This is also the view espoused by Joseph Benson,[21] Matthew Poole,[22] and John Wesley.[23] Gill also mentions that the Jewish sages also interpreted the verse as exempting male children (emphasis ours):
“Misnic doctors have the following canon (c),”all are bound to appear except a man deaf and dumb, a fool, a little one, one of neither sex, or of both sexes, women, servants not free, the lame, the blind, the sick, an old man, and he that cannot go on his feet.””[24]
And Adam Clarke specifically noted that males under thirteen were exempted:
“Old men, sick men, male idiots, and male children under thirteen years of age, excepted; for so the Jewish doctors understand this command.”[25]
So, whether it was age 12 or age 13, we have direct evidence from the New Testament that Jesus’ parents strictly followed the Jewish customs. Although there is no evidence from the New Testament that Jesus ever married, as shown above, it was the custom at the time for girls to marry by age 12, and for boys, by age 14.
The early church father, Tertullian, confirmed this cultural standard, even in his time at least 150 years after Jesus (peace be upon him). Scholars note that in Tertullian’s homeland of Carthage, “puberty” was “defined as 12 years old” (the same as the Jewish custom) and that Tertullian was attempting to argue that unmarried women should wear headdresses in church.[26] Furthermore, twelve was considered the “age of consent for both sexes”.[27] Tertullian cited the practice of the “heathens” and determined that this was the “natural law” (emphasis mine):
“Time even the heathens observe, that, in obedience to the law of nature, they may render their own fights to the (different) ages. For their females they despatch [sic] to their businesses from (the age of) twelve years, but the male from two years later; decreeing puberty (to consist) in years, not in espousals or nuptials. “Housewife” one is called, albeit a virgin, and “house-father,” albeit a stripling. By us not even natural laws are observed; as if the God of nature were some other than ours!”[28]
Indeed, Tertullian also stated that “veiling” should be done as soon as puberty starts (emphasis ours):
“…doubtless the age from which the law of the veil will come into operation will be that from which “the daughters of men” were able to invite concupiscence of their persons, and to experience marriage. For a virgin ceases to be a virgin from the time that it becomes possible for her not to be one. And accordingly, among Israel, it is unlawful to deliver one to a husband except after the attestation by blood of her maturity; thus, before this indication, the nature is unripe. Therefore if she is a virgin so long as she is unripe, she ceases to be a virgin when she is perceived to be ripe; and, as not-virgin, is now subject to the law, just as she is to marriage.”[29]
Also how old was Rebecca when she got married to Isaac? she was 3-10 and he was 40
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@BrotherD.Thomas
More about the Marriage with Aisha
1- Consent age in liberal philosophy is based on social construct (socially acceptable and favorable). Although social construct can play a role, it is certainly not enough to determine what age to choose and what to leave. Countries globally have different ages of consent. In the west , it can range from 12 years old to 18 years old, or even older. The best approach is the approach of Islam which ties it to 2 points. Reaching biological puberty, and reaching mental maturity. And we know that these things differ from person to person, not only that, but also between both genders
2- additionally Islam does not put restrictions on people choosing to get married later on. Which increasingly becoming the case globally including in Muslim majority countries. In Islam العرف normative and socially favorable behaviour are endorsed as long they are within what Islam allows.
3- people do not realise that the majority of people did not live as long as we live today, due to illnesses, plagues, diseases, famine... etc.... People up to the 18th century lived about 25~30 years old globally on average . It is expected that people would marry earlier than today. Today we live longer, thanks to many things, people also choose to go to universities and get education before starting a family. That and many other factors pushed the favorable age of marriage much more further than what people used before.
4- regardless of any explanations given by Muslims. Islam position on age of consent is much logically coherent, justifiable and in line of science and human biology as well, and better than what liberals give as justification. We will keep holding on our position that age of consent is not set in Islam, however, people and Muslim majority countries may choose what is much more befitting to them and their needs based on العرف normative and socially favorable behaviour (as long it is within what Islam allows).
5- Here some quotes from academics and different literature
Dr Colin Turner is Islamic Studies and Thought Professor at Durham University. He says on prophet Mohammed marriage to Aisha.... "a marriage between an older man and a younger girl was customary in among the bedouins, as is still is in many societies across the world. It wasn't unheard of that boys and girls promised to marriage to each other almost as soon they were born, particularly if the union was of direct political significance to families concerned. However, such marriages were almost certainly not consummated until both parties have entered adulthood, which Arabs at 7th century tended to reach at an earlier age than westerners today. It is highly unlikely that Muhammad would've taken Aisha into his bed until she was at least in her early teens, which is holy and keeping with the customs of the day, and in context, not in the least improper" page 34-35, in Islam The Basics
"There is no impropriety in Muhammad betrothal to to Aisha. Marriages conducted in absentia to seal an alliance were often contracted at this time between adults and minors who were even younger than Aisha. This practice continued in Europe until well into the early modern period. There is no question of consummating the marriage until Aisha reached puberty, when she will be married of like any girl" From the book... Muhammad: A Prophet for Our Time Book by Karen Armstrong (Christian theologian and author)
"A year after his wife death, as the priest announced through Judia, that they wish to find in the tribes of Judia a respectable man to espouse Mary, then 12 to 14 years of age. Joseph who was at that time 90 years old went up to Jerusalem among the candidates" from the Catholic encyclopedia in new advent website 1995
"Age of concent throughout history has usually coincided with the age of puberty. Although sometimes it was early as seven. Early on, age of consent was a familial or a tribal matter, and only become a legal one at the Greco-Roman period. The roman traditions served as the base for Christian Europe as well as the Christian Church itself, which generally essentially based on biological development at 12 or even 14, but continued to set the absolute minimum at seven... Traditionally across the globe, the age of consent for sexual union was a matter for family to decide or a tribal custom, in most cases this coincided with signs of puberty, menstruation for a woman, and pubic hair for a man.... In 19th century in the United States the age of consent was 10 years old, and in the state of Delaware until the 1960s it was 7 years old " from the book "Adolescence, Sexuality, and the Criminal Law. Multidisciplinary Perspectives" By Vern L Bullough (American historian and sexologist)
From the book "A Guide to America's Sex Laws" Book by Katharine B. Silbaugh and Richard Posner (chief judge of the United States courts of appeals). Authors say "the law governing the age of consent has changed dramatically in the United States during the 20th century. Most states codified a statutory age of consent during the 19th century, and the usual age was 10 years"
According to the British Common law during the colonial period, the age of consent was 7 years old. Today we are astounded to know that girls were assumed to know about sex or about sin to make such a decision competently
"The doubt comes after the reasons for marriage at a younger age in the past have been explained and hence, the falsehood of the accusation of pedophilia made clear. They then try to make it appear that this explanation itself necessitates that Islam encourages marriages of nine year olds. This is not true at all. Rather, as we have stated, Islām does not specify any particular age for marrriage as this is a matter that is determined by the socio-economic and environmental factors of each society or culture. Further, contemporary Muslim scholars are aware that women may have their rights violated by their parents or guardians and have spoken in this regard. A notable Islāmic scholar, Shaykh Muḥammad bin Ṣāliḥ al-ʿUthaymīn (d. 2001) spoke about unscrupulous and unjust fathers who marry off their daughters out of their desire for the wealth of suitor, to extract lots of wealth out of the suitor. In his commentary on the Ṣaḥīh al-Bukhārī, a compilation of Prophetic traditions, he explained that the marriage of ʿĀʾishah to the Prophet cannot be generalised by fathers to justify marrying their daughters early and that it is a must that a daughter only be married by her father when she reaches maturity and gives her consent. He states that any other opinion: “Will lead to corruption in this era of ours ...” and further states: “... And that which I consider is that from the angle of regulation and disciplinary measures in the present era is that a father should be prevented from marrying his daughter, absolutely, until she reaches maturity and is asked for her permission... And there is nothing to hinder us from preventing people from marrying off women who have not reached maturity, absolutely [without exception]...” and then the Shaykh went on to give numerous precedents from the caliph ʿUmar who implemented laws to curb the excessive, unjust behaviours of people in the affair of divorce and to suspend, temporarily, the application of laws for theft in circumstances which demanded that. This shows that Muslim scholars are aware of circumstances which may demand regulation in matters that affect personal rights or that affect the welfare of people. Thus, upon what Shaykh al-ʿUthaymīn has mentioned, Muslim rulers have the capacity to implement rules in order to address evils or violation of rights, and this would include harms that come to women who are married off without their consent at an early age. Today, given the changes that have been brought to societies and nations, to their economies and social structures—and we include Muslim societies here too—it is clear that full mental maturity is reached at a delayed age—unlike times gone by—and that marriage at ages below mental maturity can bring about harm or exploitation. We also see in many Muslim countries that the age of consent for marriage are around 18 for males and slightly lower for females at around 16 to reflect these changing circumstances. However, it should be made clear that the Islāmic legislation does not specify any particular age for marriage and leaves the affair to the customs and norms and habits of each society. And since most developing societies are undergoing the same changes today due to globalisation of economies and markets, access to education, and mixing or merging of cultures, it is inevitable that age of marriage is going to rise in all places."
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@BrotherD.Thomas
BrotherD.Thomas, who has to RUN AWAY from the original topic, (topic being the quran) and talk about other stuff because he has nothing to talk about!
Your original quote:
Path2Paradise, let us know when you want to discuss your Satanic Qur’an
case in point, YOU LIED
An important selection of Fatwas and Sayings of Khomeini in English is published here:Little Green Book
This is NOT the Quran, Khomeini is a person in modern society, he is not mentionedin the quran so I don’t know why you’re bringing himup, when you specificallystated you wanted to discuss the QURAN, not khomeinis little green book
TheArabic word for rubbing one’s penis between the thighs of a baby is التفخيذ“Tafkhiz”.
Wheres this in the Quran? and where in the Quran does it say thats its a good thing to do?
HELLO? The problem is the desert rat Muhammed married Aisha when she was SIX YEARS OLD and was being “playful” with his LITTLE GIRL BRIDE as follows:
You failed to disprove my argument, pedophillia is a modern contrsuct that didn’t exist back then, that marriage happened 1400 years ago, back when the average child was more mature.
The first ever accusation of the prophet Muhammad pbuh being called a pedophile was in 1905 so did people just ignore this fact fact for 1300 years? No. People calling the prophet Muhammad pbuh a pedophile need to understand 1400 years ago things were a lot of different and if he was a pedophile so was everyone else including Christians. Saint Augustine 350 AD Christian philosopher married a 10 year old. King Richard the 2nd married a 7 year old. Henry VIII 1500 AD married a 6 year old. According to Catholic Encyclopedia Mary was 12 when married 99 year old Joseph. Before 1929 Church of England Ministers could marry 12 year olds in Britain. In the UNITED STATES in Delaware in 1880 THE MINIMUM AGE FOR MARRIAGE WAS 7. Also the prophet Muhammad pbuh had many enemies and always insulted him calling him a liar, magician and so on never did they call him a pedophile I wonder why? Also different times and environments affect when a girl/woman reaches her age of puberty this is a fact.
there many hadiths that confirm Aisha has already reached puberty before the consummation of marriage, Here is a hadith from sahih AL bukhari :
Sahih al-Bukhari 476
Narrated `Aisha:
(the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents following Islam since I attained the age of puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet (ﷺ) visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My father Abu Bakr thought of building a mosque in the courtyard of his house and he did so. He used to pray and recite the Qur'an in it. The pagan women and their children used to stand by him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was a Softhearted person and could not help weeping while reciting the Qur'an. The chiefs of the Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that their children and women might be affected by the recitation of Qur'an).
If Prophet Muhammad PBUH was truly a pedophile, he would have cossumated the marriage right after marrying Aisha RA. But that wasn't the case
Sunan an-Nasa'i 3255
It was narrated from 'Aishah that the Messenger of Allah married her when she was six years old, and consummated the marriage with her when she was nine.
أَخْبَرَنَا إِسْحَاقُ بْنُ إِبْرَاهِيمَ، قَالَ أَنْبَأَنَا أَبُو مُعَاوِيَةَ، قَالَ حَدَّثَنَا هِشَامُ بْنُ عُرْوَةَ، عَنْ أَبِيهِ، عَنْ عَائِشَةَ، أَنَّ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه وسلم تَزَوَّجَهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ سِتٍّ وَبَنَى بِهَا وَهِيَ بِنْتُ تِسْعٍ .
Grade: Sahih
Prophet Muhammad waited three years (so she reaches puberty ) after marrying Aisha to conssumate the marriage and not right a way, would a pedophile do that? NO
Narrated by 'Aisha: The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:298)
This hadith you just used against me proves that Aisha wasnot pre-pubescent, as she was having her period. Therefore all your claims about “muhammad” and “prebuscentgirls” are invalid
1. Abul Ala Maududiٱلرِّجَالُ قَوَّٰمُونَ عَلَى ٱلنِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ ٱللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَىٰ بَعْضٍ وَبِمَآ أَنفَقُوا۟ مِنْ أَمْوَٰلِهِمْ ۚ فَٱلصَّـٰلِحَـٰتُ قَـٰنِتَـٰتٌ حَـٰفِظَـٰتٌ لِّلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ ٱللَّهُ ۚ وَٱلَّـٰتِى تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَٱهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِى ٱلْمَضَاجِعِ وَٱضْرِبُوهُنَّ ۖ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلَا تَبْغُوا۟ عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلًا ۗ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا“Men are the protec-tors and maintainers of women1 because Allah has made one of them excel over the other,2 and because they spend out of their possessions (to support them). Thus righteous women are obedient and guard the rights of men in their absence under Allah's protection.3 As for women of whom you fear rebellion, admonish them, and remain apart from them in beds, AND BEAT THEM. Then if they obey you, do not seek ways to harm them. Allah is Exalted, Great.” (Qur’an 4:34)
in your own link:
59 - If the wife is defiant and does trot obey her husband or does not guard his rights, three measures have been mentioned, BUT it does not mean that all the three are to be taken at one and the same time. Though these have been permitted, they are to be administered with a sense of proportion according to the nature and extent of the offense. if a mere light admonition proves effective, there is no need to resort to a severer step. As to a beating, the Holy Prophet allowed it very reluctantly and even then did not like it. But the fact is that there are certain women who do not mend their ways without a beating. In such a case, the Holy Prophet has instructed that she would not be beaten on the face, or cruelly, or with anything which might leave a mark on the body.
ABUL ALA MAUDUDI QUOTE: “Though these have been permitted, they are to be administered with a sense of proportion according to the nature and extent of the offence. If a mere light admonition proves effective, there is no need to resort to a severer step. As for beating, the Holy Prophet allowed it very reluctantly and even then did not like it. But the fact is that there are certain women who do not mend their ways without a beating. In such a case, the Holy Prophet has instructed that she would not be beaten on the face or cruelly, or with anything which might leave a mark on the body.”
in your own citation:
“the Holy Prophet has instructed that she would not be beaten on the face or cruelly, or with anything which might leave a mark on the body.”
Thanks for proving my point
2. Safi-ur-Rahman al-Mubarakpuriاَلرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُوۡنَ عَلَى النِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللّٰهُ بَعۡضَهُمۡ عَلٰى بَعۡضٍ وَّبِمَاۤ اَنۡفَقُوۡا مِنۡ اَمۡوَالِهِمۡ ؕ فَالصّٰلِحٰتُقٰنِتٰتٌ حٰفِظٰتٌ لِّلۡغَيۡبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللّٰهُ ؕ وَالّٰتِىۡ تَخَافُوۡنَ نُشُوۡزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوۡهُنَّ وَاهۡجُرُوۡهُنَّ فِى الۡمَضَاجِعِوَاضۡرِبُوۡهُنَّ ۚ فَاِنۡ اَطَعۡنَكُمۡ فَلَا تَبۡغُوۡا عَلَيۡهِنَّ سَبِيۡلًا ؕاِنَّ اللّٰهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيۡرًا“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are Qanitat, and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard. As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them, and abandon them in their beds, AND BEAT THEM, but if they return to obedience, do not seek a means against them. Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.” (Qur’an 4:34)
“but if they return to obedience, do not seek ameans against them. Surely, Allah is Ever Most High”
3. Tafsir ibn Kathirاَلرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُوۡنَ عَلَى النِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللّٰهُ بَعۡضَهُمۡ عَلٰى بَعۡضٍ وَّبِمَاۤ اَنۡفَقُوۡا مِنۡ اَمۡوَالِهِمۡ ؕ فَالصّٰلِحٰتُ قٰنِتٰتٌ حٰفِظٰتٌ لِّلۡغَيۡبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللّٰهُ ؕ وَالّٰتِىۡ تَخَافُوۡنَ نُشُوۡزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوۡهُنَّ وَاهۡجُرُوۡهُنَّ فِى الۡمَضَاجِعِوَاضۡرِبُوۡهُنَّ ۚ فَاِنۡ اَطَعۡنَكُمۡ فَلَا تَبۡغُوۡا عَلَيۡهِنَّ سَبِيۡلًا ؕاِنَّ اللّٰهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيۡرًا “Men are the protec-tors and maintainers of women56 because Allah has made one of them excel over the other,57 and because they spend out of their possessions (to support them). Thus righteous women are obedient and guard the rights of men in their absence under Allah's protection.58 As for women of whom you fear rebellion, admonish them, and remain apart from them in beds, AND BEAT THEM. Then if they obey you, do not seek ways to harm them. Allah is Exalted, Great.” (Qur’an 4:34)
in your own citation:
59. This does not mean that a man should resort to these three measures all at once, but that they may be employed if a wife adopts an attitude of obstinate defiance. So far as the actual application of these measures is concerned, there should, naturally, be some correspondence between the fault and the punishment that is administered. Moreover, it is obvious that wherever a light touch can prove effective.one should not resort to sterner measures. Whenever the Prophet (peace be on him) permitted a man to administer corporal punishment to his wife, he did so with reluctance, and continued to express his distaste for it. And even in cases where it is necessary, the Prophet (peace be on him) directed men not to hit across the face, nor to beat severely nor to use anything that might leave marks on the body. (See Ibn Majah, 'Nikah', 3 - Ed.)
Will me answering more claims soon
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@BrotherD.Thomas
In relation to your pathetic Islamic faith, you are allowed to BEAT YOUR WIVES, whereas you gave a candy-assed interpretation of not having to BEAT your wives laughably shown above AND without citing references!
“no citation”
Right here in footnote 2: https://quran.com/4?startingVerse=34
“Disciplining one's wife gently is the finalresort. The earliest commentators understood that this was to be lightenough not to leave a mark, should be done with nothing bigger than a toothstick, and should not be on the face. Prophet Muḥammad (peace be upon him)said to his companions “Do not beat the female servants of Allah.” He saidthat honorable husbands do not beat their wives, and he himself never beats awoman or a servant. If a woman feels her husband is ill-behaved, then shecan get help from her guardian or seek divorce.”
Also, Heres what the Quran And Prophetic Statements say about wives:
Islamic scripture has strongly emphasized and taught to love your wife, to feed them, to treat them with kindness, as it is clearly shown in the following statements from Prophet Muhammad (p):
“I went to the Messenger of Allah and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.” (Sunan Abi Dawud Book 11, Hadith 2139. Eng. Tran., Sahih Al-Albani, https://sunnah.com/abudawud/12/99 )
The above is a clear command from Prophet Muhammed (p) not to hit your wife.
The Prophet (p) used to treat women very tenderly. He said:
‘Whoever remains patient with regards to the misbehaviour of his wife, Allah will give him a reward as great as Ayub’s (Job) for his affliction. Likewise, if a woman keeps patient with regards to the misbehaviour of her husband, Allah will give her a reward as great as Aishah’s Bint Bint Muzahim, (the Pharaoh’s wife).’ (Al-Hakim in Al-Mustadrak – Transmitters of this Hadith are trustworthy) (Major Sins [translators: Abdul-Hamid A. Eliwa Ali M. As-Sawi, Wa’il A. Shehab, Mahmud AI-Qastawi] by Imam Shamsu ed-Deen Dhahabi, page 136, online source http://www.islamtomorrow.com/books/major_sins/majorSins.pdf )
The best husband is the one who is best to his wife :
“The Prophet said: ‘THE BEST OF YOU IS THE ONE WHO IS BEST TO HIS WIFE, and I am the best of you to my wives.’” (Sunan Ibn Majah volume 3, Book 9, Hadith 1977. Eng. Tran., Hasan, Darussalam https://sunnah.com/urn/1262960)
The most perfect faith are from the men who have the best bahviour towards their wives:
“Messenger of Allah said, ‘The believers who show the most perfect Faith are those who have the best behaviour, and the best of you are those who are the best to their wives.’” (Riyad as-Salihin Book 1, Hadith 278. Eng. Tran., https://sunnah.com/riyadussaliheen/1/278 )
A husband should not hate his wife because if he dislikes something in her, he will find something else he likes about her:
“Abu Huraira reported Allah’s Messenger saying: A believing man should not hate a believing woman (wife); if he dislikes one of her characteristics, he will be pleased with another.” (Sahih Muslim Book 8, Hadith 3469. Eng. Tran., https://sunnah.com/muslim/17/81)
God loves kindness:
“’A’isha, the wife of Allah’s Apostle, reported that Allah’s Messenger said: ‘A’isha, verily Allah is kind and He loves kindness and confers upon kindness which he does not confer upon severity and does not confer upon anything else besides it (kindness).” (Sahih Muslim 2593 Book 32, Hadith 6273. Eng. Tran., https://sunnah.com/muslim/45/99 )
Abu Hamid al-Ghazali (1058 – 1111 AD) – Ihya Ulum-Id-Din:
“The Prophet of God said, “the most perfect of believers in faith are those who are the finest in manners and most gentle toward their wives.” He said, “The best among you are the most charitable toward their wives…” (Book On The Etiquette of Marriage – Being the Second Book of The Section on Customs In The Book: The Revival of the Religious Sciences (“Ihya Ulum al-Deen”) [Translated by Madelain Farah], by Abu Hamid Al-Ghazali, part 2 (II), page 96)
Buying gifts for your spouse, there will be love between one another:
“…that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, “Give gifts and you will love one another.” (Al-Adab Al-Mufrad Book 30, Hadith 594. Eng. Tran., Hasan, Al-Albani https://sunnah.com/adab/30/57 )
Classical Scholar, Shaykh Abu Hamid al-Ghazali (1058 – 1111 AD) has put the above report in the section of “The Etiquette Of Marriage”:
“Exchanging gifts is desirable, and results in friendship.’ The Prophet said, “If you exchange gifts, you will love each other.” (Book On The Etiquette of Marriage – Being the Second Book of The Section on Customs In The Book: The Revival of the Religious Sciences (“Ihya Ulum al-Deen”) [Translated by Madelain Farah], by Abu Hamid Al-Ghazali, part 2 (II), page 89)
Sahih al-Bukhari:
“Whatever you spend (on your wife) will be considered a Sadaqa (charity) for you, even the mouthful of food you put in the mouth of your wife.” (Sahih al-Bukhari volume 7, Book 64, Hadith 266. Eng. Tran. https://sunnah.com/bukhari/69/4 )
Live with your wife in kindness (Quran 4:19):
“O you who have believed, it is not lawful for you to inherit women by compulsion. And do not make difficulties for them in order to take [back] part of what you gave them… And LIVE WITH THEM IN KINDNESS. For if you dislike them – perhaps you dislike a thing and Allah makes therein much good.” – Quran 4:19 (Sahih International)
Friends and allies of one other:
“The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and establish prayer and give zakah and obey Allah and His Messenger. Those – Allah will have mercy upon them. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.” – Quran 9:71 Sahih International)
The husband and wife are likened to clothing in the Quran (S. 2:187). They guard, respect and honour each other:
“They are clothing for you and you are clothing for them.” – Quran 2:187 (Sahih International)
In Quran 30:21 it says that God has placed “tranquality”, “affection” and “mercy”:,
“And of His signs is that He created for you from yourselves mates that you may find tranquillity in them; and He placed between you affection and mercy. Indeed in that are signs for a people who give thought.” – Quran 30:21 (Sahih International)
Ibn Kathir’s (1301 – 1373 AD) commentary on the above verse:
“Out of Allah’s perfect merscy He made their wives from their own kind, and CREATED LOVE AND KINDNESS BETWEEN THEM. For a MAN STAYS WITH A WOMAN BECAUSE HE LOVES HER, or because he feels compassion towards her if they have a child together, or because she needs him to take care of her, etc.” (Tafsir Ibn Kathir (Abridged) [Abridged by A Group of Scholars Under The Supervision Of Shaykh Safiur-Rahman Al-Mubarakpuri. Maktaba Dar-us-Salam – Second Edition, 2003], volume 7, page 535)
Muhammad b. al-Sa’ib al-Kalbi (d. 763 AD) exegesis on S. 30:21,
“(And of His signs) of the signs of His divine Oneness and power (is this: He CREATED FOR YOU SPOUSES) human beings like yourselves (from yourselves that ye might find rest in them) so that the husband may find rest in his wife, (and He ordained between you) HUSBAND AND WIFE (LOVE) LOVE OF THE WIFE FOR HER HUSBAND (AND MERCY) of the husband towards his wife; it is also said that this means: love of the young ones of the old ones and mercy from the older ones towards the young ones. (Lo, herein) in that which I have mentioned (indeed are portents) signs and lessons (for folk who reflect) upon what Allah created.” – (Tanwir al-Miqbas min Tafsir Ibn Abbas on Surah 30:21 – online source http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=30&tAyahNo=21&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2 )
In the meantime that im gonna answer other claims by you, answer this:
If the bible is the word of god? why is there so many contradictions?
contradictions in the bible:
2 Chronicles 22:2
"Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem. His mother's name also was Athaliah the daughter of Omri."
2 Kings 8:26
"Ahaziah was twenty-two years old when he became king, and he reigned in Jerusalem one year. His mother’s name was Athaliah, a granddaughter of Omri king of Israel."
GOD CANNOT MAKE MISTAKES, therefore, the bible is corrupt
If Jesus is god, the son of god, the father, and the holy spirit, then how did he not know the hour?
Mark 13:32
“But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
More contradictions
Luke 3:23
"Now Jesus himself was about thirty years old when he began his ministry. He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph,
the son of Heli,"
Matthew 1:16
"and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah."
So whos the father of Joseph? Jacob or Heli?
More
God’s anger lasts forever and also doesn’t last forever.
Micah 7:18 New International Version (NIV)
"Who is a God like you, who pardons sin and forgives the transgression of the remnant of his inheritance? You do not stay angry forever but delight to show mercy."
Jeremiah 17:4 King James Version (KJV)
"And thou, even thyself, shalt discontinue from thine heritage that I gave thee; and I will cause thee to serve thine enemies in the land which thou knowest not: for ye have kindled a fire in mine anger, which shall burn for ever."
You can look at god’s face and also can’t look at god’s face.
Genesis 32:30 English Standard Version (ESV)
"So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel,[a] saying, “For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life has been delivered.”
Exodus 33:20 New International Version (NIV)
"But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.”
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@BrotherD.Thomas
continuing my previous comment.
Fifthly:
If we were to quote all the hadeeths that highlight the forbearance of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) with his wives, it would take a long time. He was forbearing and compassionate in situations where an ordinary husband might lose his cool. But the one who had this great character (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was patient and forbearing; indeed he refrained from doing anything that could upset his wife.
Another example of that is seen in the report narrated by Umm Salamah (may Allah be pleased with her), which says that she brought some food in a dish of hers to the Messenger of Allaah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon her) and his companions, then ‘Aa’ishah came, wrapped up in a garment, with a stone pestle and broke the dish. The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) gathered the broken pieces of the dish and said: “Eat; your mother got jealous,” twice. Then the Messenger of Allaah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) took the dish of ‘Aa’ishah and sent it to Umm Salamah and he gave the dish of Umm Salamah to ‘Aa’ishah
Narrated by an-Nasaa’i in as-Sunan, 3956; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh an-Nasaa’i
It was narrated that Nu‘maan ibn Basheer (may Allah be pleased with him) said:
Abu Bakr came and asked permission to enter upon the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), and he heard ‘Aa’ishah raising her voice to the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). He gave him permission to enter, so he entered and said: O daughter of Umm Roomaan! – and he grabbed her – do you raise your voice to the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him)? The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) separated them, and when Abu Bakr left, the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) started saying to her, to make her feel happy: “Do you not see how I intervened between the man and you?”
He said: Then Abu Bakr came and asked for permission to enter upon him, and he found him laughing with her. Permission was given to him, and he entered, and Abu Bakr said to him: O Messenger of Allah, make me a partner in your peace as you made me a partner in your war.
Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad, 30/341-342. The commentators said: Its isnaad is saheeh according to the conditions of Muslim.
So let those haters reflect on how great the compassion of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was towards his wife ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her), and how much he loved her, even in difficult circumstances in front of his guests before whom she broke the dish of food, and he looked for an excuse for her, saying: “your mother got jealous.”
Isn’t jealousy the same factor that motivated ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) to go out following the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) that night, when she thought that he had gone out to see one of his other wives, but that did not cause him (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) to rebuke her by hitting her in a way so as to cause pain, as happens with many husbands.
Sixthly:
If this “shove” had been hitting in a real and violent sense, ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) would have wept like young women do, and she would have expressed her pain and objection to the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). But she did not do that; rather she continued the conversation with the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and showed politeness by asking about the dhikr that is recommended when visiting graves. This indicates that the “shove” was no more than a gesture aimed at alerting and teaching, and that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) did not feel the slightest sense of hurt or offence that these haters are looking for to use against our noble Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).
Seventhly:
Moreover we say: if a husband hits his wife – if it is gentle and not by way of humiliation, and there is an urgent reason for doing so – this is something permissible that was permitted by the Holy Qur’an, in which Allah, may He be exalted, says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husbands absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husbands property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great”
[an-Nisa’ 4:34].
‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) made a mistake by going out of her house without the permission of her husband (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), but the reason why she did it was that she wanted to catch up with him, as she felt happy being close to him. But – whatever the case – it was a mistake. Nevertheless, the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) did not use the means of striking lightly that is permitted by the Holy Qur’an, although if he had done that there would have been nothing wrong with it. It would have been within his rights to punish for such a mistake, as the Prophet of Allah Moosa (peace be upon him) took hold of his brother’s head and pulled him towards him. Rather our noble Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) used “poking” the chest accompanied by a reminder to fear Allah, may He be glorified and exalted. This is an example of his perfect character and attitude (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Sahih Muslim 974b/Sahih Muslim 4:2127 says, “Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain.”
The hadeeth mentioned in the question is that which was narrated from ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her), who said:
When it was my night when the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was with me, he came in and took off his cloak, took off his shoes and put them by his feet, spread the edge of his waist wrapper on his bed and lay down. He waited until he thought that I had gone to sleep, then he picked up his cloak slowly, put on his shoes slowly, opened the door slowly, and went out, then he closed it slowly. I put my chemise over my head and veiled myself, and wrapped my waist wrapper around me, then I set out following him, until he reached al-Baqee‘ where he stood for a long time, then he raised his hands three times. Then he set off, so I set off, then he hastened, so I hastened, then he jogged, so I jogged, then he ran so I ran, then I reached home before him and went in. No sooner had I laid down but he came in and said: “What is the matter, O ‘Aa’ishah? Why are you out of breath?” I said: It is nothing. He said: “Either you tell me or the Subtle One, the All-Aware will tell me.” I said: O Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be sacrificed for you! And I told him. He said: “So you were the person that I saw in front of me?” I said: Yes. He gave me a painful shove on the chest, then he said: “Did you think that Allah and His Messenger would be unjust to you?” She said: Whatever the people conceal, Allah knows it; yes. He said: “Jibreel came to me when you saw. He called me but he concealed it from you, and I answered him but I concealed it from you. He would not enter upon you when you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep and I did not want to wake you up, and I was afraid that you might be frightened. He said: “Your Lord is commanding you to go to the people of al-Baqee’ and pray for forgiveness for them.” I said: What should I say to them, O Messenger of Allah? He said: “Say: Peace be upon the people of these abodes, believers and Muslims. May Allah have mercy on those of us who have gone on before and those who come later, and we will – if Allah wills – join you soon.”
Narrated by Muslim, 974
The issue mentioned in the question may be explained from several angles:
Firstly:
The words of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her), “he gave me a painful shove in the chest” indicate that what the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) did was merely a shove, i.e., he pushed her or poked her in the chest; this does not reach the level of real hitting that is intended to cause pain and to humiliate. In fact it is stated in Lisaan al-‘Arab (3/393) that one of the meanings of the word lahd (translated here as shove) is poke. In Taaj al-‘Aroos (9/145) it says that one of the meanings of the word lahd is to apply pressure.
All of these meanings indicate that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) did not hit her in the sense meant by those who want to cast aspersions upon him; rather he poked her or pushed her in the chest in such a way that she felt pain, but it was mild and unintended pain; rather the purpose behind it was to point out something and teach.
Secondly:
If the reader reflects on this hadeeth he will realise that it is one of the proofs of the greatness of the Prophet’s attitude. A man may live with his wife for many years, and she may do many things because of the jealousy that is an inherent part of women’s character, but he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) is not known to have ever caused her harm in word or deed, except for what is mentioned in this hadeeth, despite the large number of narrators who transmitted all the details of his life (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him). This is indicative of his perfect character (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him).
As for those haters who seek to cast aspersions upon him, they wish that they could find any suggestion that he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) hit his wife in such a way that it caused pain, or at least that he hit her in a way that hurt her, by way of rebuking and humiliation. But they failed to do so. The most that is mentioned in this hadeeth is that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) said: He gave me a painful shove in the chest. The one who wants to hit and humiliate someone will not limit it to a shove in the chest; rather he will focus his energies on the sides of the body or the face, and have a humiliating impact on the mind of the one whom he hits. We do not see anything of that nature in the hadeeth of ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her).
Thirdly:
This hadeeth is indicative of the perfect character of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and of his compassion and tenderheartedness, because he did not rebuke or strike or tell off; rather he chided her gently with the aim of teaching ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her) and the ummah after her. Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, and His Messenger (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) do not treat anyone unjustly, and it is not permissible for anyone to think negatively of Allah or His Messenger. Rather what is required of others is to think positively of Allah and to accept whatever Allah, may He be glorified and exalted, decrees. That “shove” was one of the means of teaching and highlighting a matter of great importance that it is not appropriate to forget or neglect, no matter how great her jealousy concerning the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and her love for him. It is not appropriate for it to be thought that the Prophet of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) would wrong any of his wives for the sake of another, Allah forbid.
Fourthly:
Another indication that this “shove” was not by way of beating and causing pain; rather it was by way of teaching and pointing out something, is the rest of the conversation between the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) and ‘Aa’ishah (may Allah be pleased with her). It was a peaceful and beneficial discussion in which the compassion of the greatest teacher (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) was manifested, as he explained to her the reason why he had gone out of the house at that late hour. He (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) had opened the door quietly and left the house without a sound so as not to disturb her sleep. Such an explanation could not stem from anger or the aim of causing pain; rather it came from a compassionate, kind and noble husband who respected his wife and explained to her, telling her the details of what had happened with him, so as to share his story with her. Thus he instilled in her heart a sense of confidence and trust in her honest and sincere husband.
She said: Whatever the people conceal, Allah knows it; yes. He said: “Jibreel came to me when you saw. He called me but he concealed it from you, and I answered him but I concealed it from you. He would not enter upon you when you were not fully dressed. I thought that you had gone to sleep and I did not want to wake you up, and I was afraid that you might be frightened. He said: “Your Lord is commanding you to go to the people of al-Baqee’ and pray for forgiveness for them.” I said: What should I say to them, O Messenger of Allah? He said: “Say: Peace be upon the people of these abodes, believers and Muslims. May Allah have mercy on those of us who have gone on before and those who come later, and we will – if Allah wills – join you soon.”
Let the one who honestly and sincerely seeks the truth reflect on the story of a husband to whom an important matter came when he was sleeping in his wife’s bed at night. He wanted to go out and leave her, but he did not want to wake her up or disturb her sleep; he also did not want her to wake up and feel lonely, anxious and afraid that she had suddenly lost her husband who had been by her side.
Will continue rest of refutation of this claim in the next comment.
May Allah Bless you and guide you, In Sha Allah
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@Stephen
PEACEFULMY ARSE!. Quran 8:39“Andfight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, allofit, is for Allah. And if they cease - then indeed, Allah is Seeing ofwhatthey do.”
Quran 8:39 “And fight them until there is no oppression [fitna] and is the religion all of it for Allah. But if they cease, then indeed, Allah of what they do (is) All-Seer.”
This verse (8:39) was revealed concerning the battle of Badr (624 AD).
This passage was revealed at the battle of Badr (624 AD). This battle took place as a consequence of the continued persecution the Muslims faced by the Quraish. It was the Quraish who came to Madinah for war, not the other way around.
Reading 8:39, it makes sense that the fighting the Muslims were involved in 624 AD was against those who persecuted the Muslims. Furthermore, we have already highlighted that the Arabic word ‘fitna’ used means, oppression and persecution. Even the contextual context for the verse, reading the verses before and after will show that the fighting mentioned was a result of Quraysh continually fighting the Muslims:
8:38 Say to those who have disbelieved [that] if they cease [from war], what has previously occurred will be forgiven for them. But if they return [to hostility] – then the precedent of the former [rebellious] peoples has already taken place.
8:39 And fight them until there is no fitnah and [until] the religion, all of it, is for Allah. And if they cease – then indeed, Allah is Seeing of what they do.
8:40 But if they turn away [from fighting] – then know that Allah is your protector. Excellent is the protector, and Excellent is the helper.
Similarly, the following three non-Muslim Quran translations also agree that this is the true meaning for the passage. That the Muslims were ordered to fight those who persecuted them.
Non-Muslim Translations:
- Arthur John Arberry Quran 8:39 Fight them, till there is no persecution and the religion is God’s entirely; then if they give over, surely God sees the things they do…
- George Sale Quran 8:39 And fight them until there is no persecution and religion is wholly to God. But if they desist, then surely God is Watchful of what they do.
- E. M. Wherry Say unto the unbelievers, that if they desist from opposing thee, what is already past shall be forgiven them; but if they return to attack thee, the exemplary punishment of the former opposers of the Prophets is already past and the like shall be inflicted on them. [A Comprehensive commentary on The Quran, [London: Trubner & Co., Ludgate III] By Reverend E. M. Wherry, volume 2, page 260]
Muslim Translations:
- Muhammad Asad And fight against them until there is no more oppression and all worship is devoted to God alone. And if they desist-behold, God sees all that they do…
- M. M. Pickthall And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.
- Shakir And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.
Commentaries
Tafsir Ibn Kathir:
“…Muhammad bin Ishaq said that he was informed from Az-Zuhri, from `Urwah bin Az-Zubayr and other scholars that (until there is no more Fitnah) the Fitnah mentioned here means, until no Muslim is persecuted so that he abandons his religion.” [Tafsir Ibn Kathir http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1543&Itemid=63]
Reverend E. M. Wherry:
“(39) ‘If they return’. This probably refers to the declaration of the Quraish that they would return to avenge the defeat of Badr. The exemplary punishment, & c. Abdul Qadir translates, ‘The custom of the former (peoples) has passed before them.’ There is in the saying a subtle allusion to the defeat of the Quraish at Badr, in accordance with the doom of disbelievers in former times.” [A Comprehensive commentary on The Quran, [London: Trubner & Co., Ludgate III] By Reverend E. M. Wherry, volume 2, page 260]
Im open to more discussions, show me ONE verse in the quran where it says to kill innocent people
And as always, May Allah guide you In Sha Allah
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@Stephen
Why would I speak Arabic if I was born in England 68 yearsago? Why would I want to speak any other language other than my mothertongue? Will I be condemned by Allah because I didn't and don't, speakArabic!?
Well you could have learnt Arabic in those 68 years, or youcould even learn it now. Speaking of being born, I was born a non muslim but Irecently converted to islam almost 2 months ago. As for the judgement of a non-muslim dying before speaking Arabic, I do not know yet.
PEACEFULMYARSE! Quran 4:89 - Theywish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so youwould be alike.So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate forthecause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and killthemwherever you find them and take not from among them any allyorhelper
Quran 4:89 "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing: But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they (Apostate) turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them".
Tafsir al-Jalalayn, Muhammed Asad and Maulana Muhammed Ali commentary of the Quran say these passages refer to Banu Asad and Ghatafan tribes. These tribes have in a number of occasions been hostile and sided with enemies of the Prophet (p). And waged war against the Muslims.
Others, such as Ibn Kathir and Maududi’s Quran commentary, say that the verse refers to the hypocrite Muslims who had accepted the message of Islam in Makkah but they never emigrated to Madinah. Further, they mention that they sided with the enemies of the Muslims in Makkah i.e., sided in the sense fighting and persecuting Muslims. They were a bunch of very difficult persons to deal with, because outwardly they prayed, recited the Kalimah (article of Islamic faith), and fasted in the month of Ramadan, but at the same time they did the worst things against the true Muslims.
Verses after:
4:89 They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.
4:90 Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.
4:90 Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.
4:91 You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to [the influence of] disbelief, they fall back into it. So if they do not withdraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And those – We have made for you against them a clear authorization.
Conclusion: In 4:89 God Almighty turned the hypocrites back to unbelief for what they did (Maududi). Furthermore, the Muslims were commanded 1400 years ago to catch hold of those hypocrites who were actually engaged warfare against the Muslims then.
4:90 shows that the fighting mentioned here were not against innocents, but aimed at those who were actively fighting against the Muslims, 1400 years ago. The verse says, if they cease from hostilities, and remove themselves, not siding with the enemies, and offer peace that they be left alone.
In 4:91 it emphasizes what has been mentioned already, that there are those who will be asking for security but at the same time they refrained from offering peace to the Muslims, by not stopping their hostilities. The Muslims 1400 years ago were commanded that they be caught and dealt with, as a result of their ongoing hostilities, and the fighting they were involved in against the Muslims.
All these verses speak of events that relate to individuals (or groups) who actively fought and harmed the Muslims.
PEACEFULMYARSE! Quran8:12 - "Iwill cast terror into the hearts of those whodisbelieve. Thereforestrike off their heads and strike off everyfingertip of them
Ive answered this in my second comment in this forum, Iguess you just didn’t read it, neither did Thomas.
Quran 8:12
"[Remember] when your Lord inspired to the angels, "I am with you, sostrengthen those who have believed. I will cast terror into the hearts of thosewho disbelieved, so strike [them] upon the necks and strike from them everyfingertip."
Context:
This verse and the verses before and after were revealed about the Battle ofBadr, which occurred in Arabia in the early seventh century. A battle in whichthe pagans of Makkah traveled more than 200 miles to Madinah with an army ofabout 1000 to destroy Muslims. Prophet Muhammad (peace be on him) and fellowMuslims had suffered severe persecutions and torture for 13 years in the cityof Makkah. And now that they had fled Makkah and found a sanctuary in the cityof Madinah, they were once again threatened. Muslim Army was only about 300strong. God Almighty gave the order to Muslims to fight to defend their livesand faith. The enemy came to them with the intent to kill Muslims. It was a warto defend themselves and their Faith. It was a war imposed upon Muslims.
PEACEFULMYARSE! Quran3:56 - "Asto those who reject faith, Iwill punish them with terrible agony inthis world and in the Hereafter, norwill they have anyone to help.
Quran 3:56
“As to those who reject faith, I will punish them withterrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone tohelp.”
This verse references God’s wrath on the people whodisbelieved in Jesus. The passage does not endorse Muslims to commit violence.Heres the entire passage in its context:
3:55 [Mention] when God said, “O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raiseyou to Myself and purify you from those who disbelieve and make those whofollow you [in submission to God alone] superior to those who disbelieve untilthe Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge betweenyou concerning that in which you used to differ.
3:56 And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severepunishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers.”
3:57 But as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give themin full their rewards, and God does not like the wrongdoers.
Quran Commentary on3:56:
Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi – Tafhim al-Qur’an – The Meaning ofthe Qur’an:
51 The word (mutawaffi) in the Arabic text is from (tawaffa) which literallymeans “to take and to receive” and “to seize the soul” is not its lexical butmetaphorical meaning. Here it means “to recall from mission.” Allah recalledJesus because the Israelites had rejected him in spite of the clear Signs hehad brought. They had been disobeying God for centuries and, in spite of many awarning and admonition served to them, their national character was rapidlydeteriorating. They had killed several Prophets, one after the other, and hadgrown so audacious as to demand the blood of any good man who ventured toinvite them to the Right Way. In order to give them the last chance for turningto the Truth, God appointed among them two great Prophets, Jesus and John(God’s peace be upon them), at one and the same time. These Prophets came withsuch clear signs of their appointment from Allah that only such people daredreject them as were utterly perverted and prejudiced against the Truth and wereaverse to following the Right Way. Nevertheless the Israelites lost their lastchance also as they not only rejected their invitation but also had the head ofa great Prophet like John cut off openly at the request of a dancing girl. ‘Andtheir Pharisees and Jurists conspired and sought to get Jesus punished with thedeath sentence by the Roman Government. Thus they had proved themselves to beso obdurate that it was useless to give the Israelites any further chance. SoAllah recalled His Prophet Jesus and inflicted on them a life of disgrace up tothe Day of Resurrection.
It will be useful here to bear in mind the fact that thiswhole discourse is meant to refute and correct the Christian belief in theGod-head of Jesus. Three main things were responsible for the prevalence ofthis belief among the Christians:
(1) The miraculous birth of Jesus.
(2) His concrete and tangible miracles.
(3) His ascension to heaven about which their Scriptureswere explicit.
The Qur’an confirmed the first thing and made it plain thatthe birth of Jesus without a father was only a manifestation of the infinitepowers of Allah. He can create anybody in whatever manner He wills. Hismiraculous birth, therefore, is no reason why he should be made a god or apartner in Godhead.
The Qur’an also confirms the second thing and even recountsthe miracles performed by Jesus, but makes it clear that all those miracleswere performed by him, as a servant of Allah, by His leave and not as anindependent authority. It is, therefore, wrong to infer that Jesus was apartner in Godhead.
Now let us consider the third thing. If the Christian beliefin “Ascension” had been wholly baseless, it could have been refuted by pointingout that the object of their worship, the so-called “Son of God”, expired longago and had become one with dust, and that they could see, for their fullsatisfaction, his grave at such and such a place. But the Qur’an does notdeclare this explicitly. On the other hand, it not only uses such words as giveat least a vague suggestion of his “Ascension”, but also denies that Jesus wascrucified at all. According to it the one who gave a loud cry at his last hour,saying, “Eli” Eli, lama sabachthani?” and the one whose picture they carry onthe cross, was not Messiah at all, because God had recalled to Himself the realMessiah before the crucifixion took place.It is thus clear that those people who try to prove thedeath of Jesus from these verses, really try to show that God is not able toexpress Himself clearly and unambiguously. (May God protect us from such ablasphemy!)
52 ″Those who rejected” him were the Jews who were invited byJesus to accept the Truth.
“Those who follow” him are really the Muslims only but if itmay be taken to imply all those who believe in him, then the sincere Christiansmay also be included.
I will address Thomas' claims and your claim of Quran 8:39 being violent soon, In Sha Allah
And as always, May Allah guide you In Sha Allah
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@Deb-8-a-bull
When Naming a child in a islamic country.Do you think they could go a little , diffrent.It doesn't even look like you can name ya kid Trevor or Blossom.Are you allowed to name your kids how you wish in a islamic. Is that the word .A islamic place.OrrrIn a place where 1 out of like 4 blokes are named Muhammed.Which is a nice name i think.
Im still new to islam, and i dont know the ruling on what is compulsory (or not) to name your kids, im guessing that they named their kids after the prohpet (PBUH) or his companions/family such as Imam Ali (AS), Abu bakr (RA), Umar (RA), Imam hussein, Imam Hassan, etc
Personally im going to name my first son Abbas, mostly because i like Abbas ibn Ali (AS), and im gonna name my first daughter either Yasmin or Fatima
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@Stephen
"born Muslim" - that doesn't speak Arabic, so there isn't much chance of turning to anyone then is there, you clown?
did you speak fluent english or know how to eat as soon as you were born? no, you learnt it, just like how you can learn arabic you numbskull
Yep. Its spreading all over the world, bringing with it it's backward, dangerous and violent culture and carrying out the word of Allah to the letter. Muslims-in the name of Islam - hasn't even began to show us what it is they are capable of doing in the name of Allah. Christians did practically the same for hundreds of years but with one slight, seemingly (and important) difference.
The Quran is a vile book as is the Old Testamant.
keep talking, you're going to regret everything you say on the day of judgment
And it has been a pleasure showing you to be speaking out of your arse.
its a pleasure seeing you go off topic after i proved that the Quran doesnt use disbelief as a justification to kill someone
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@BrotherD.Thomas
watch these videos of a christian who converted to the beautiful religion of islam
Dont worry, you were born muslim but your parents or those around you made you christian, right now you are insulting Allah (SWT) but Allah (SWT) knows that you will turn back to him in the future, he knows in your heart that you want to turn back to Allah (SWT), trust me i know
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@tigerlord
no problem akhi, heres the accusations they made:
New accusations which i havent responded to yet:
HELLO? It is "open season" to insult your primitive Islamic faith because it goes against Christianity as shown below in your Satanic Qur'an, understood Muslim fool? Huh? Maybe?
- "AND THE JEWS say, "Ezra is God's son," while the Christians say, "The Christ is God's son." Such are the sayings which they utter with their mouths, following in spirit assertions made in earlier times by people who denied the truth! [They deserve the imprecation:] "May God destroy them!" How perverted are their minds." (Qur'an 9:30)
Aisha
Narrated 'Aisha: “I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, NOT YET REACHED THE AGE OF PUBERTY. (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13) (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73)Narrated by Aisha:“The Prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six (years). We went toMedina and stayed at the home of Bani-al-Harith bin Khazraj. Then I gotill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother,Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of mygirl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what shewanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at thedoor of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing becameAllright, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Thenshe took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari womenwho said, "Best wishes and Allah's Blessing and a good luck." Then sheentrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage).Unexpectedly Allah's Apostle came to me in the forenoon and my motherhanded me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years ofage.” (Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 234:)Aisha was the only virgin that Muhammad ever married. The sweaty camel rider Muhammad gave the following reason for marrying young virgin girls:Narrated by Jabir bin ‘Abdullah: “I was accompanying the Prophet on a journey and was riding a slow camel that was lagging behind the others… When we approached Medina, I started going (towards my house). The Prophet said, "Where are you going?" I said, "I have married a widow." He said, "Why have you notmarried a virgin to fondle with each other?" I said, "My father died and left daughters, so I decided to marry a widow (an experienced woman) to look after them." He said, "Well done." … (Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 38, number 504)THE “CARPET KISSER” PROPHET MUHAMMAD LIKED TO “FONDLE” PREPUBESCENT GIRLS BEFORE HE SCREWED THEM:Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah: “While we were returning from a Ghazwa (Holy Battle) with the Prophet, I started driving my camel fast, as it was a lazy camel A rider came behind me and pricked my camel with a spear he had with him, and then my camel started running as fast as the best camel you may see. Behold! The rider was the Prophet himself. He said, 'What makes you in such a hurry?" I replied, I am newly married " He said, "Did you marry a virgin or a matron? I replied, "A matron." He said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you?" When we were about to enter (Medina), the Prophet said, "Wait so that you may enter (Medina) at night so that the lady of unkempt hair may comb her hair and the one whose husband has been absent may shave her pubic region.” (Sahih Bukhari 7:62:16)Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: “When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?” ( Sahih Bukhari 7:62:17)Narrated by 'Aisha: The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. (Sahih Bukhari 1:6:298)THE SWEATY CAMEL JOCKEY MUHAMMAD EVEN BEAT HIS 9 YEAR OLD CHILD WIFE AISHA, WHAT A SOB!:“Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain.” (Sahih Muslim 4:2127)Narrated by 'Aisha: “I used to wash the semen off the clothes of the Prophet and even then I used to notice one or more spots on them (Sahih Bukhari 1:4:233)
Accusations which ive responded to but he still hangs on:
"Wife beating verse"
1. Abul Ala Maududi“Men are the protec-tors and maintainers of women1 because Allah has made one of them excel over the other,2 and because they spend out of their possessions (to support them). Thus righteous women are obedient and guard the rights of men in their absence under Allah's protection.3 As for women of whom you fear rebellion, admonish them, and remain apart from them in beds, AND BEAT THEM. Then if they obey you, do not seek ways to harm them. Allah is Exalted, Great.” (Qur’an 4:34) https://www.alim.org/quran/tafsir/maududi/surah/4/34/ABUL ALA MAUDUDI QUOTE: “Though these have been permitted, they are to be administered with a sense of proportion according to the nature and extent of the offence. If a mere light admonition proves effective, there is no need to resort to a severer step. As for beating, the Holy Prophet allowed it very reluctantly and even then did not like it. But the fact is that there are certain women who do not mend their ways without a beating. In such a case, the Holy Prophet has instructed that she would not be beaten on the face or cruelly, or with anything which might leave a mark on the body.”2. Safi-ur-Rahman al-Mubarakpuri
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are Qanitat, and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard. As to those women on whose part you see ill conduct, admonish them, and abandon them in their beds, AND BEAT THEM, but if they return to obedience, do not seek a means against them. Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.” (Qur’an 4:34)3. Tafsir ibn Kathir
“Men are the protec-tors and maintainers of women56 because Allah has made one of them excel over the other,57 and because they spend out of their possessions (to support them). Thus righteous women are obedient and guard the rights of men in their absence under Allah's protection.58 As for women of whom you fear rebellion, admonish them, and remain apart from them in beds, AND BEAT THEM. Then if they obey you, do not seek ways to harm them. Allah is Exalted, Great.” (Qur’an 4:34)
AishaNarrated by Aisha: “that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years till his death. (Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:)
Acussations which ive responded and debunked to but hes had no answer:
"1. “Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers.” (Qur’an 2:65-66)"
"3. "When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." (Qur'an 8:12)"
Muslim in Quran 18:80 explains why he killed a boy:"And as for the boy, his parents were true believers, and we feared that he would pressure them into defiance and disbelief."So in Quran, the disbelief is used as a reason for murder.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Path2Paradise, who has to RUN AWAY from his despicable Islamic faith because he can’t defend it,
Im not running away, im right here, i dont fear anyone except Allah (SWT)
weak Allah God
Astaghfirullah Muslims and christians believe in the same god
Jesus'
Prophet Isa (PBUH) was muslim
Will you still be RUNNING AWAY from my posts to you like you are doing now, because you can't defend your Satanic Muslim faith? Yes?
Im not running away, you will wait patiently for my answer as i tell you to do so.
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@BrotherD.Thomas
Quran 2:6
As for those who persist in disbelief, it is the same whether you warn them or not—they will never believe.
"Fashion coats of mail and measure their links with care1 and act righteously. ‘I am watching over whatever you do.” (Qur’an 34:11)
Mashallah Brother D. Thomas, good to see you are finally Muslim
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@Stephen
No what you said was "MUSTunderstand Arabic".
i did not say just that, i said:
"must understand Arabic and the Quran if you want the true meaning and context of these verses"
But i do agree that Muslims should learn Arabic
I have shown you that more than half the population of Muslims in the world do not speak fkn Arabic",
You're completely wrong, they speak Arabic in their prayers.
Case closed Alhamdulillah.
Which makes them pointless and redundant.
you seem pretty pointless and redundant
Making him a contradictory murdering clown.Off you go know.
your point seems pretty pointless and redundant
Anyways, Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh, its been nice debating with you and Inshallah you have a good week.
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So you are trying to tell me that every single worshiping Muslim in the whole world also speaks Arabic? Every Pakistani. Every Indonesian? Every Bangladesh? Every Senegali? Every Myanmarian (Burmese)? Every Bruneian? Every Somalian? and many more?
1st of all, Stop putting words in my mouth because i was never trying to say that
2nd of all, No, but they probably should.
Ok which ones are incorrect in their translations?
There's different english translations for each verse.
For example, look at this website where it lists different english translations for Quran 8:12
It lists the Popular and/or Featured translations, Generally Accepted Translations, Controversial or status undetermined works, etc.
The most obvious incorrect translation in this argument is the first example by Brother D. Thomas:
1. “Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers.” (Qur’an 2:65-66)
You can see credible English translations here
Stop it! FFS. You have said above that "even Moses states killing is wrong" while he butchered thousands of his own people and set their heads on spikes facing the sun. Which shows Moses to be a contradictory murdering butcher. So it is the point.
Yes i have indeed said that. Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) does state the killing is wrong, because he was impatient.
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@Stephen
Don't make me laugh.
Its true, if you want the true meaning i suggest you learn arabic and read the Quran in arabic
So every Quran ever written in English can be thrown in the rubbish bin then.
Didnt say that, and didnt say every, i said not all english translations will be correct, you're not even reading what i say
This will be Moses the "law giver" that killed thousands of his own people?
Thats not the point, the point of the story is to not assume too quickly, and to stay patient for the explanation after, which is what Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) does not do. This exactly proves you barely read anything and just skimmed through my argument
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@BrotherD.Thomas
"Okay, then show the membership the "alleged" correct INTERPRETATION of said passages that are in question, and if you can't, then go into HIDING and SHAME of your sickening faith of Islam!"
First of all, do not insult the religion of Islam, we are all religious and should not insult each other's religions.
Second of all, you must understand Arabic and the Quran if you want the true meaning and context of these verses, as not all English translations will be correct
Third of all, The only Surah used in this post is Surah al-Kahf, which is chapter 18 of the Quran.
best korea misinterprets the context of the Surah and verse and states that "disbelief is used as a reason for murder." but, i will prove this wrong.
The story is about patience and not assuming and judging actions too early, which is what Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) does, despite claiming that he will be patient, but even then Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) states that the killing was wrong, as seen in Quran 18:66-82
- Moses said to him, “May I follow you, provided that you teach me some of the right guidance you have been taught?”
- He said, “You certainly cannot be patient ˹enough˺ with me.
- And how can you be patient with what is beyond your ˹realm of˺ knowledge?”
- Moses assured ˹him˺, “You will find me patient, Allah willing, and I will not disobey any of your orders.”
- He responded, “Then if you follow me, do not question me about anything until I ˹myself˺ clarify it for you.”
- So they set out, but after they had boarded a ship, the man made a hole in it. Moses protested, “Have you done this to drown its people? You have certainly done a terrible thing!”
- He replied, “Did I not say that you cannot have patience with me?”
- Moses pleaded, “Excuse me for forgetting, and do not be hard on me.”
- So they proceeded until they came across a boy, and the man killed him. Moses protested, “Have you killed an innocent soul, who killed no one? You have certainly done a horrible thing.”
- He answered, “Did I not tell you that you cannot have patience with me?”
- Moses replied, “If I ever question you about anything after this, then do not keep me in your company, for by then I would have given you enough of an excuse.”
- So they moved on until they came to the people of a town. They asked them for food, but the people refused to give them hospitality. There they found a wall ready to collapse, so the man set it right. Moses protested, “If you wanted, you could have demanded a fee for this.”
- He replied, “This is the parting of our ways. I will explain to you what you could not bear patiently.
- “As for the ship, it belonged to some poor people, working at sea. So I intended to damage it, for there was a ˹tyrant˺ king ahead of them who seizes every ˹good˺ ship by force.
- “And as for the boy, his parents were ˹true˺ believers, and we feared that he would pressure them into defiance and disbelief.
- So we hoped that their Lord would give them another, more virtuous and caring in his place.
- “And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the city, and under the wall was a treasure that belonged to them, and their father had been a righteous man. So your Lord willed that these children should come of age and retrieve their treasure, as a mercy from your Lord. I did not do it ˹all˺ on my own. This is the explanation of what you could not bear patiently.”
The point of the story is to say 'even the wisest person around doesn't really understand anything'. It isn't about why that boy existed. It's about learning humility, The whole point is Allah (SWT) knows best.
"Here are some more despicable passages from your disgusting Qur'an for you to "try" and reinterpret away from their LITERAL words;"
Not literal words, these are the English translations, learn Arabic first Brother D. Thomas, before deciding to solely rely on English translations
"1. “Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers.” (Qur’an 2:65-66)"
2:65 - And you had already known about those who transgressed among you concerning the sabbath, and We said to them, "Be apes, despised."
2:66 - And We made it a deterrent punishment for those who were present and those who succeeded [them] and a lesson for those who fear Allah .
Sabbath, i.e., Saturday . It was laid down that the Israelite should consecrate that day for rest and worship. They were required to from abstain from all worldly acts, including cooking (which they might neither do themselves, nor have their servants do for them). The injunctions, in this connection were so strict that violation of the Sabbath was to be punished with death. When religious and moral decadence, however, spread among the Israelites they indulged in open desecration of the Sabbath, so much so that in Jewish towns trade and commerce were carried out in broad daylight.
Funny how you used this verse, because a few verses back in Quran 2:62, it states:
2:62 - Indeed, the believers, Jews, Christians, and Sabians—whoever ˹truly˺ believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good will have their reward with their Lord. And there will be no fear for them, nor will they grieve.
"2. “Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and BEAT THEM. Then if they obey you, take no further action against them. Surely God is high, supreme." (Quran, 4:34)"
4:34 - Men are the caretakers of women, as men have been provisioned by Allah over women and tasked with supporting them financially. And righteous women are devoutly obedient and, when alone, protective of what Allah has entrusted them with. And if you sense ill-conduct from your women, advise them ˹first˺, ˹if they persist,˺ do not share their beds, ˹but if they still persist,˺ then discipline them ˹gently˺ But if they change their ways, do not be unjust to them. Surely Allah is Most High, All-Great.
Disciplining one’s wife gently is the final resort. The earliest commentators understood that this was to be light enough not to leave a mark, should be done with nothing bigger than a tooth stick, and should not be on the face. Prophet Muḥammad (peace be upon him) said to his companions “Do not beat the female servants of Allah.” He said that honourable husbands do not beat their wives, and he himself never hit a woman or a servant. If a woman feels her husband is ill-behaved, then she can get help from her guardian or seek divorce.
"3. "When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them." (Qur'an 8:12)"
If you read the full Surah Al-Anfal, you would know what its talking about
8:9 - ˹Remember˺ when you cried out to your Lord for help, He answered, “I will reinforce you with a thousand angels—followed by many others.”
8:10 - And Allah made this a sign of victory and reassurance to your hearts. Victory comes only from Allah. Surely Allah is Almighty, All-Wise.
8:11 - ˹Remember˺ when He caused drowsiness to overcome you, giving you serenity.1 And He sent down rain from the sky to purify you, free you from Satan’s whispers, strengthen your hearts, and make ˹your˺ steps firm.
8:12 - ˹Remember, O Prophet,˺ when your Lord revealed to the angels, “I am with you. So make the believers stand firm. I will cast horror into the hearts of the disbelievers. So strike their necks and strike their fingertips.”
This verse and the verses before and after were revealed about the Battle of Badr, which occurred in Arabia in the early seventh century. A battle in which the pagans of Makkah traveled more than 200 miles to Madinah with an army of about 1000 to destroy Muslims. Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and fellow Muslims had suffered severe persecutions and torture for 13 years in the city of Makkah. And now that they had fled Makkah and found a sanctuary in the city of Madinah, they were once again threatened. Muslim Army was only about 300 strong. Allah (SWT) gave the order to Muslims to fight to defend their lives and faith. The enemy came to them with the intent to kill Muslims. It was a war to defend themselves and their Faith. It was a war imposed upon Muslims. in summary, Muslims fought the Quraysh who had previously persecuted them, oppressed them, and harassed them for over a decade. During the battle, Allah (SWT) tells the Angels "make sure the Muslim army remains committed and devoted, I am going to fill the enemies [who are fighting the Muslims] hearts with fear."
"being written by a child molester pedophile named Muhammad since he married six year old girl named Aisha!"
In modern times most jurisdictions [today] set the age of consent in the range 14 to 18. [1] On the same page, you will find that this age has been increasing steadily over the past centuries. Starting at around ~7 years (with recorded exceptions as young as 2) before moving up to 10-12 through most of Europe and America. This went through multiple reforms before we reached today's status quo of around 14-18 in most parts of the world. The marriage of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) to Aisha (R.A) at a young age, while deemed unusual by contemporary societal norms, occurred during a period 1400 years ago when pre-adolescents were frequently engaged in warfare, actively participating in battles and taking lives of opposing combatants. It is important to note that the cultural norms and values of that era differed significantly from those of modern times, and people were commonly expected to display a level of maturity beyond what is typically expected of prepubescent individuals today. Thus, while such practices may appear discordant with current social customs, it is imperative to understand and interpret them within the context of their respective historical eras.
The fact that this wasn't a criticism levied against the Prophet Muhammad(saw) until the 19th century, which was constructed by Orientalists, is evidence enough that this was a common practice throughout history. None of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him)'s greatest enemies used this as an attack against him because it was common practice throughout human history. Adolescence is a modern concept that didnt exist 1400 years ago. Historically, the difference between man/woman and boy/girl was puberty. There was no delineation between neonate, toddler, adolescent, teenager, adult, etc. By the standards of the modern world, everyone's forefathers would be pedophiles. By those same standards, many people in African, Asian countries or even other Western countries in the modern day, would be considered pedophiles.
"Path2Paradise, let us know when you want to discuss your Satanic Qur’an and the contents thereof"
Well, seeing as how you refer to my holy book as "satanic", and have referred to me as a "muslim fool" in your latest comment, my answer is never. I refuse to converse with someone who slanders my religion. Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) would not be proud of you for what you are doing right now and my case is closed to future arguments with you.
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@Best.Korea
Wrongdoings from Modern muslims and muslim countries do not represent islam, all the negative viewpoints from the Quran that you have are due to ingnorant misinterpretation of the verses because of your hatred with islam.
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