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@fauxlaw
Origenism is a heresy.
Specifically the pre-existence of souls.
From the 5th ecumenical council...
"If anyone asserts the fabulous pre-existence of souls, and shall assert the monstrous restoration which follows from it: let him be anathema."
Thought you might want to be aware of that.
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@Theweakeredge
Rather I would say that your use of language leads to superstitious thinking.
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@Theweakeredge
The bible doesn't condone slavery.
Neither does the bible condone divorce.
In fact, the bible doesn't condone anything, because the bible is a book. A book that shouldn't be looked at apart from the context of what the orthodox church teaches.
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@Theweakeredge
I am simply pointing out that the measure you use to judge will be used to judge you.
Even moreso because you think you know better, but hold other people to standards you yourself don't hold.
Look, I'm not truly hating on you. All I am saying is that we don't condone slavery, and your accusation is false. Youncertainly are not going to convince me that you know what I believe better than I do.
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Slavery exists because people are greedy.
Slavery exists because people are lazy.
Slavery exists because people are power hungry.
Slavery exists because people are rebellious.
Slavery exists because we live in a world with people.
Then some white knights come in and in the name of abolishingnslavery manage to enslave the population.
Slavery isn't going away any time soon.
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@Theweakeredge
I wonder how many things you use in your everyday life that are made by slaves. I wonder how much of your own money is given to those who hold slaves. I wonder how much intellectual property you use without giving to the people who produce them.
Slavery exists because of fat Americans like you. Don't kid yourself. You have no moral highground. You are simply a hypocrite. I doubt you hold yourself to the same standards you hold those you dislike to.
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Depends totally on where you are.
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@Theweakeredge
There is no such implication. If that was the case, we wouldn't refer to certain substances in chemistry as agents.
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@Theweakeredge
Just as divorce was instituted in the law as a condescension for human weakness and the reality of a situation, so were these laws pertaining to slavery.
Historically speaking, every society has practiced slavery. There wasn't much about avoiding it either.
The church does not condone slavery.
But slavery even exists even in modern "slave free" society in the form of addiction and idolatry. Why, these things evnlen lead people to voluntarily lending their bodies over to control by another.
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@Danielle
Female genital mutilation is not a religous practice as far as I know.
Male circumcision however is, and I don't believe it should be illegal.
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@Danielle
I don't believe that parents should be prosecuted for refusing medical treatment that goes against their faith.
That leads to a situation where for example, parents can be prosecuted for not getting their kids the Covid vaccine.
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@BrotherDThomas
I already told you how to identify the church based on the ecumenical councils we accept and the churches that are in communion with.
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@Theweakeredge
Clearly the universe has agency. It is silly to claim otherwise. The universe does exercise power.
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@Theweakeredge
We do not claim a book is perfect, we claim that God is perfect.
The church is not a secular authority, nor is it supposed to be. In fact, to make ecclesiastical authoeity secular authoritynis the heresy of caeseropapism.
The Mosaic law is for a secular government. We have secular governments now. I live in the United States. I am under the law of that land. The ancient Hebrews had their own law.
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@Theweakeredge
If you take the universe as the ultimate reality, you are a pantheist whether or not you acknowledge that fact.
That is where I am at with the issue.
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@Theweakeredge
The church doesn't condone slavery. Slavery is something in the domain of secular authorities.
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@Jarrett_Ludolph
Obedience is considered a virtuous thing to us Christians, believe it or not. Maybe not as obvious with protestants.
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@Danielle
I recall you mentioning polygamy. Other tban that, I don't recall.
I personally think the government should stay out of marriage all together.
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Recognizing the reality of slavery is not the same thing as condoning slavery.
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@Danielle
Free speech includes the right to freely NOT speak.
Seems unconstitutional.
I hope these laws get overturned, because it is easy to justify really bad things under the pretense of protecting people.
It isn't a religious issue, but it does potentially effect us and may be an attack on the sacrament of confession.
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@Wagyu
There's a great saying which goes as follows. Believe the bible without reading it and you are a Catholic. Believe the parts that you like and you are evangelical. Read it cover to cover and you'll be an Atheist.
Someone who reads the bible cover to cover and is illumined is Orthodox.
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@3RU7AL
I wouldn't even say before God, because God is not simply eternal, but pre-eternal. That is, time itself is contingent on God. It isn't so much that before God there was anything or no thing.. rather, there is no before God.
Evil is the direct consequence of man choosing darkness over light. The absense of light is darkness. The absense of good is evil. When God created everything, He said it was all good. Mankind through misuse of the potency granted to it by God makes evil.
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@Theweakeredge
That is definition 1 b (2), Merriam Webster.
Definition 1 a is
"the quality or state of having existence"
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@Theweakeredge
A being is "something that actually exists".
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@Wagyu
Rather, I would go further still and say, "man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God".
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@Wagyu
Your parents certainly played a part in your creation, but it is The Ultimate Reality that gives you existence.
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@Wagyu
The will of God is law.
God wills you to live.
If you die, well this is what happens.
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@Wagyu
I would not acknowledge your parents as your creator. Therefore, your claim that this is not a controversial opinion is false.
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@Theweakeredge
An agent is "something that produces or is capable of producing an effect"
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@Theweakeredge
The laws of nature could be said to be the mind of God in a pantheistic context.
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@Theweakeredge
Well, regardless, pantheism is the identifying of the universe as the ultimate reality, or God. That doesn't necessarily deny the existence of lesser gods. Does not necessarily imply monotheism.
Classical pantheists were not monotheists. Rather, they deified forces of nature and such.
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@Benjamin
You are expressing a very scholastic type position.
It was said by drafterman..
Since the general preference is for consistency (avoidance of contradictions) we therefore must forgo completeness: there are truths that cannot be proven via a logical system.
An over reliance on reason(and romanticism as well) is what lead the west astray from orthodoxy. The natural consequence of this deifying of reason is that eventually philosophy abandoned Christianity, and ultimately God, who is The Ultimate Reality.
Nihilism, that is, the denial of absolute truth is the consequence of deifying reason.
The Ultimate Reality is not arrived at as a logical conclusion. Rather, its existence is a revelation, an apocalypse. Logic itself should not be elevated above God, or even made equal with God.
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@Theweakeredge
Then you have a pantheistic conception of God.
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@Theweakeredge
the reason we have to presume something as a fact, is because it isn't one
The fact that you are having an experience is proof that there is some form of existence. That is, reality as it is perceived.
If there is a reality as it is perceived, there must be an ultimate reality.
The Ultimate Reality is God.
What other proof do you need?
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@Wagyu
Not at all.
Your mother is not The Ultimate Reality. To make peace with reality is to make peace with God. There is death and suffering in the world. Accepting this as reality is better than pointing at reality and saying, "I would rather it be this way, so I do not accept it!". One way is reasonable and gives peace of mind. The other way is to prefer delusion and the hell that comes with it.
The God we believe in is The God of Truth. That is why it is silly to judge God. Surely, God's judgement is righteous, and we are the wrong ones.
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The best argument for God's existence is that all atheist arguments are contingent on refuting a God that no one who is theologically educated believes.
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It would be a mistake to call Jesus a socialist or a capitalist.
These are materialistic worldviews that have very little to do with the Christian worldview.
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@Wagyu
As I said, it is perfectly within God's business to give and take away life as He sees fit.
We all have our time to go.
You were given life by God, and when the time comes you too will die.
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Why not add satanism?
Discordianism is totally a religion too.
The church of the sub-genius should even be recognized.
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@Danielle
We do not need our sacraments recognized or validated by law. Ours is a church of martyrs. When the powers that be encroach on us, we will peacefully resist, and even die for our beliefs.
The Soviet Union killed well over 20 million of us, as a low end estimate, and many martyrs were made. That is how we operate. If there are cowards who cave in, the church will move to the catacombs as it had to do in The Soviet Union and in places that persecuted us before.
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@Danielle
There are no denominations in orthodoxy, denominationalism is a protestant heresy. A denomination is by definition not catholic. When there are serious moral violations in the church, those responsible are dealt with. I have seen it happen. I know of those who held high positions who were found guilty of these sort of thimgs, and were deposed, even excommunicated.
I am not talking about anything other than the sacrament of confession. If someone confesses a really bad sin, they can be excommunicated. If a priest confesses to molestation or something, they would be deposed. There are ways we deal with these.things internally.
But to equate this with "protecting religious rights to privacy and ritual over protecting the victims of rape" is insulting and has nothing to dk with what I am saying.
No secular law can prop itself over our sacraments. To do so is a declaration of war against our faith. Confession is a sacred thing.
But besides that, I stand on this not beimg a religious issue. No one should be forced to say anything they don't want to. If someone sees a murder, and would prefer to hide and keep it to themselves, that is their business.
But in particular when it comes to our faith, the sacrament of confession cannot be overturned by secular laws. If secular laws encroach on the church, they are to be disobeyed. And on that note, making laws requiring people to snitch on others is unenforceable to begin with.
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@Danielle
The problem with pedophilia in the RCC is among their clergy.
Certainly they should be prosecuted, and if their church is aware of these things, canonically they are supposed to depose those offending clergy.
We don't have this problem in the Orthodox Church, we don't tolerate this kind of behavior with clergy. There would be a riot.
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@Danielle
Besides that though, I believe that it is not a religious right to remain silent. That is a right everyone has.
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@Danielle
The government claims to have a right, but it would be incredibly sscreligious for priests to reveal confessions.
It won't happen, and if the government tries to force us, we would not respect any right they claim to do so.
We have our lines in the sand. Church history does not look too kindly on the Sergianists in the Soviet Union.
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@Danielle
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
I am certainly against government interference in my church. We aren't, for example, going to marry two people of the same sex. But really, we don't marry those outside of our church anyway.
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@Stephen
I'm not sorry that I cause you frustration Stephen.
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@Stephen
Stephen, I dismiss your objection outright. It is not as important as you think.
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