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FourTrouble

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Total posts: 204

Posted in:
Drunk Driving
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@Benjamin
So you are saying that DUI laws are the very reason drunk drivers drive safely because they force drunk drivers to step up their play whilst sober drivers slack of. 
Not the only reason drunks drive safely -- their own survival also motivates heightened care.

I might agree. Hower, I do still uphold that everyone should drive as safely as possible, and that drunk driving is unnesesarily increasing risk of harm, whislt other types of specialised driving simply requires other types of driving skills. One could say that drunk driving is a STYLE of driving, while driving other vehicles is a METHOD of driving, and a method (like normal driving) is influenced by alcohol, making the extra risk unnecesary and directly caused by the alcohol.
I agree that people should drive as safely as they can. But the role of the law is limited in this respect. 
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Anyone who picks a side as a 'pure victim' with Israel and Hamas doesn't understand the full story.
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@coal
I decline to consider this issue from the perspective of who "owns" or has any "right" to claim any land --- especially where such claims are based on ethnic or national identity.  Neither ethnicity nor nationality can "entitle" a person to own a piece of geographic territory.  In this way, I do not defend Israel's possession of any land or territory on the basis of their purported "right" to it.  Nor, for that matter, will I ever support vesting the Palestinians with any state based on their ethnicity or nationality. 
Why do you defend Israel's possession of land?

As a general matter, what justifies possession of land?
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Anyone who picks a side as a 'pure victim' with Israel and Hamas doesn't understand the full story.
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@coal
I'm really not kidding when I say I will never support any "Palestinian" state.   And that stance has less to do with my feelings about Palestinians than with the civilizational risks of national self determination.  
What do you view as the civilizational risks of national self-determination?
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Drunk Driving
I don't necessary support the side I argued in this debate btw. I just thought it would be a challenging topic to argue, and I don't enjoy easy debates. 
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Drunk Driving
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@Benjamin
I disagree with most of your argument, though I appreciate the concept of your argument. 

A few points:

1. The law doesn't require driving as safely as possible. It requires that people meet a minimal safety standard, nothing more. Some people drive better, with quicker reactions, more focus & awareness, and more patience. But it's not required. So the premise of your argument is questionable. 

2. Yes, most people "can" drive better when sober, but this doesn't translate in the real world. Sober people rarely drive at their best. They listen to the radio, talk on the phone, and regularly drive above speed limits (the consequence of a modern lifestyle that encourages impatient, aggressive driving). But when people drink alcohol, they stop speeding or talking on the phone. They know they need to pay more attention to the road, so they drive better. Counterintuitive, yes. But alcohol makes a lot of people better (or at least safer) drivers than they are when sober. That said, consider this: 

3. DUI laws motivate drunks to drive more carefully because they don't want to be pulled over by the police. This leads to safer roads than a world without DUI laws, not because drunks drive less, but because they drive better when they're concerned about being pulled over for a DUI. None of my opponents made this argument, but it's actually quite strong. I don't have a counterargument to this, though I'm sure I could think of something if I had to.

4. Specialized driving doesn't mean driving the best you can. It means driving a truck, or transporting hazardous materials. In other words, it refers to types of driving that are more dangerous & difficult than regular driving. These specialized forms of driving require extra licensure because they're more dangerous. Drunk driving isn't much different. 

5. "Reckless driving" refers to specific actions that endanger the roads, like speeding or running red lights or swerving between lanes without signaling. Reckless driving directly causes traffic accidents. The people who engage in reckless driving know that their actions violate basic traffic rules, and they know that doing so could lead to traffic accidents. Reckless driving is a proximate cause of traffic fatalities.

Drunk driving may lead to reckless driving, but it doesn't always (or even usually) do so. Drunk drivers who drive safely but end up in traffic accidents because of bad luck are NOT the proximate cause of those traffic accidents. If drunk drivers cause traffic accidents, the drunkenness is less of a proximate cause than their reckless driving. Many drunk drivers don't know their BAC level. If they misjudge BAC, because they don't feel impaired, how can you say they deserve punishment? 
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Beekeeping AMA
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@fauxlaw
I'm in Colorado at the foothills of Rocky Mountains. Been beekeeping for a couple years as well, after a wild swarm randomly showed up on a tree in my backyard. I caught five other wild swarms after that. You could try catching one, see what happens? If successful, a wild swarm should be able to survive at your elevation.


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The Brothers Karamazov or Anna Karenina
Anna Karenina was the first piece of Russian literature I read, and it still resonates, years later. I recall certain conversations & scenes as if I read them yesterday -- a very meaningful book for me.

I love Dostoevsky as well, possibly more than Tolstoy, but given my experience, Anna Karenina is where I always recommend people start with Russian lit. I strongly believe Tolstoy's literature made me a better person at a very critical time in my life. 
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Debate challengers?

I left it 10k characters because I respect the right of debaters to weaken their arguments with unnecessary wordiness. 
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Debate challengers?
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@coal
Thanks for the suggestions. 

I like the idea of trying the "spanking" debate as Pro, lol. 

I also like the COVID topics.
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Debate challengers?
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@Theweakeredge
I don't have any specific topics in mind. Give me a couple you want to debate, and we can choose one.
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Debate challengers?
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@RationalMadman
Okay, sure. 

Also, this debate is currently open for challengers: https://www.debateart.com/debates/3045-drunk-driving-should-be-legal
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Debate challengers?
I'm enjoying debating lately and hoping to get some fun & competitive debates. No topic in mind, open to anything as long as it's somewhat fair.

Anyone interested?
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Welcome to DebateArt.com! (satire)
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@gugigor
Maybe this website should be called convince_whiteflame.com instead.
This is probably a good way to get a win. Debate to your audience. 
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2021 Mafia Championships
I would if I had the time, but I can't be active enough. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia Endgame
This wasn't my best game, lol.

I'm still surprised I faked a guilty on a miller. I feel trolled. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia Endgame
I don't enjoy this kind of mafia game, but I know that's the meta here. This felt like a pretty boring game overall, with very little real scumhunting.
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Fairy Tail Mafia Endgame
I've never been wrong about a fake result btw. This game continues the trend.
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Fairy Tail Mafia Endgame
I completely forgot to hammer, sorry about that. I meant to before deadline but life happens.
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Fairy Tail Mafia Endgame
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@ILikePie5
Expected.
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
What's the deadline for voting?
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Why aren't we lynching Oro?
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
I guess Speed/Oro just gave up?
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Coal's role confirms that WF didn't perform the NK, decreasing likelihood that WF's mafia. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Though I imagine scum will kill me tonight for that...
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
The only way you could possibly think I'm scum is if you think I'm a scum day role cop (significantly less likely than town day cop) and that I randomly used my role on Earth (wtf, why would scum ever do that?). The idea that I'm scum is just nonsense, when thought about properly.

The only good thing that came of Earth's lynch is that at least I'm confirmed. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
I also don't see what's the issue with my role. I have different abilities. One of them was a day cop. Another was giving ataraxia armor to someone. The armor sounded like defense, so I gave it to RM.
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
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@ILikePie5
My role not making sense to you isn't reason to suspect me... I'm confirmed via Earth's flip...
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
There's also the possibility of Coal/Oro, Speed/Oro, or Speed/MC. 

Though these four combinations are most likely at this point. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
The way I see it, there's equal chance of there being scum between Oro/MC/WF as there is between Luna/Coal/Speed. Or alternatively, between MC/Oro and Coal/Speed.

MC/Coal makes a lot of sense as scum at the moment. 

I'd lynch MC first, just to avoid the risk of hider dying & losing at LYLO. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Post 110 is incorrect. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Setup speculation: 

If MC's scum, consider balance: 

1. If town hider dies, scum MC needs one less mislynch to win.

2. If town hider lives, scum MC has to get an extra mislynch. 

It's a sensible design concept for balancing 10 players with 2 scum. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
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@ILikePie5
I still think lynching between Oro/MC isn't a bad idea.

Both exhibit behaviors that strongly indicate an informed perspective re: Earth's alignment. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
I also didn't like how Coal spread paranoia about me yesterday. 

A decent lynch for today. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
We need Oro's claim. 

Coal's suspect for use of role. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
You could have blocked someone like MC, who didn't claim an active role. That's how most townies think about using the role. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Didn't WF say he had a main character (i.e. main role)? Very strange role choice by Coal. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Coal, who'd you use your role on? 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
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@Speedrace
What kind of hider are you? We need more information about your role. Tell us everything you were told. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Did we ever find out if scum were given fake claims? 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Nah, I'm not lynching Luna. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
I hope Lunatic confirms Whiteflame or Pie. This'll make the game a lot easier. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Lunatic, are you told which player you protect or which character? 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
I think MC/Oro/Whiteflame are better off voting among each other than voting among the dream -- it's a higher percentage lynch.

Speed/Coal/Luna probably want to lynch among each other, though I think there's reason for them to vote among MC/Oro/Whiteflame as well. 




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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
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@whiteflame
I'm not saying to ignore the dream. It's helpful information.

My understanding of the dream is this:

If Pie is town, there's one scum in the group of Speed/Coal/Luna, and at least one scum (but possibly more) in the group of MC/Oro/Whiteflame.

If Pie is scum, there's likely no scum in the group of Speed/Coal/Luna, and at least one scum in the group of MC/Oro/Whiteflame.
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
He means confirmed town. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Coal's claim doesn't make sense to me. What's a drunk do? 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
We need a mass claim. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
Did Oro claim yet? I'd like Oro's claim. 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
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@Lunatic
Let's talk about the game a bit before you go. What're your reads atm? 
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Fairy Tail Mafia DP2
This logic also applies to MC & Oro. 
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