Total posts: 182
When I become leader...
I'll grow a smart and strong society, and wage war on Earth, and now I'm the leader of two planets!
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@Pinkfreud08
I don't want to get into the exact definition here, but you should know what I mean. Like the painting with the lines and blanks and stuff.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
The problem with debunking God is that there are so so many people that believe in it. With literal billions of people supporting God, and supporting God since childbirth, it's very hard to sway minds. And it goes vise versa too.
It's like saying "clouds are just the sun's reflection". Even if it's true, no one would believe it.
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@EtrnlVw
@Alec
I absolutely agree with what Eternal said. With a topic this broad, convince yourself first, before you let other people try and convince you.
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@Vader
Well I believe that AI should aid actual people in those services, but not work with those people, if that makes any sense. I'm still undecided though.
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@Vader
The basic ones like the emergency services, community parks, community centers, and so fourth.
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@Vader
The government control AI?
That should be a debate topic!
Anyway, I don't really have an opinion on this. If AI is done by privates, then it will be hard to regulate, and the market for AI could be expensive, and all that messed up stuff.
But if the government does it, then they will know everything and stuff and yeah.
My view perhaps is that the government should provide social services with the aid of AI, but no more. And the private companies should do stuff. I don't know yet.
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@ILikePie5
True, true.
Is there a chance as time goes on, more people will leave Trump and join with some Democrat candidates?
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@Vader
You're right, that some people won't spend it in the "right" ways, however, are there any other solutions that would migate the effect of the growing AI populous?
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@Christen
I actually think it's a great idea! I believe that it will positively impact the economy and society. I do have a few debates about it actually.
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@Greyparrot
I think at this point Trump is just trolling us, like come on. He should be in tears, but he just parties...
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@RationalMadman
@ILikePie5
@Snoopy
@Christen
@Gatorade
Gatorade
YES! Yang2020 is the way to go!
Christen
Do you support it?
RationalMadman
Warrens okay I guess...
Snoopy
Bernie is actually pretty cool, however if it only wasn't for his health conditions, then I think he might have a stronger chance.
Also, Klobuchar and Gabbard!? No way! I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they are still in the race! Well, Gabbard didn't make it to the December debate, so that's good, however, how is Klobuchar still on?
ILikePie, Franklin
Guys, don't do drugs, ther're bad for you.
Seriously though, I don't think Trump will actually win in 2020. We have a strong list of presidential Democrats now, and they might be taking over the senate in 2020. Also with the impeachment inquires, things don't look good for Trump...
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@PressF4Respect
Oh..... okay. That makes sense now
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@Barney
Wait, didn't bsh1 create this site? Why would he leave?
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When I become the leader of Mars (assuming Mars at this time is self sufficient), there will be no government. I'm assuming that the Mars population before I die will be no more than 1000, so no government is needed, we can all just come to consensus. We will all be useful people, and provide food to put out on the market, goods, and other services. Food and other necessities will be free, in fact, nothing costs anything. You want something, you get something. However, to make things fair, we must all contribute to society. You ask for a pair of shoes, someone makes shoes for you, and you grow crops for them, something like that. Friendship! The scientists back on Earth will send us monthly supply of necessities like new technologies, inaccessible resources, and perhaps new people once in a while). Then after the gravity issue is solved and we can start naturally reproducing; and after we become fully self sufficient, then we will declare our independence from Earth. I will give a famous speech that everyone on Earth will watch, and I will say something like "Screw you Earth! We don't like you anymore! You can die from global warming on your own!" We will cut off all supply from Earth (few exceptions), and officially be known as Martians.
After I die, we will remain isolated, and a small progressive and democratic government will be formed just to keep things on track. After the population hits 5000, the birth limit will be 2, stabilizing the population. The government's only job is to advance the society, hearing the wishes of the people, and reacting appropriately with a popular vote of over 75%. The society from the start will be all good people (thanks to me), so from the start, there will be no bad people. After the 5000 cap is hit, then a new city could be formed, 250 km away, with it's own government. The two governments will not work together, but will communicate their progress. Remember, the people have actual control here, and the government is here to only collect the public census.
This cycle will continue, and soon enough, but, we must remain the same species, so to avoid variation due to lower gravity, everyone will be wearing pressurized suits for the most part, and working out regularly.
What will you do if you become the leader of Mars?
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@Vader
Drama, discussions about people, interviews - Relating to this website, or anything would work?
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@Vader
Would the podcast be talking about the new debates of the week?
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Trump's impeachment is a loyalty test for Republicans
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@Discipulus_Didicit
@ebuc
DisDid
Oh yeah, sorry about the tagging thing. No clue why I did that. I guess it was just an extension of this forum. Thought you might be interested.
Ebuc
Marget's dead. Also that was before today.
What I mean is that times have changed. Lobbying was introduced earlier, but it wasn't at full force like it is today.
Also, governments and large corporations don't care about anyone. They care about money. Who are you going to blame? The CEO? Good luck trying to talk to him? And his representatives will be like "uh.. yah, talk to the CEO about that question."
We need a government that isn't being bought by companies.
Andrew Yang btw? Yang2020? Anyone?
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@ebuc
Yes.
So we can all agree that Greta won't get anything done?
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@Alec
Greta's cool, her progress, not so much, but at least she's trying. However, I just wanted to throw this out there for context you could say.
- People spend 200 million hours each day in Africa just trying to find clean drinking water.
- 20% of those hours are from children, who have to walk 6 kilometers (3.7 miles) regularly to collect water for their entire family.
- Last month, 750 children were arrested fighting for their future and human rights in Hong Kong. Children!
- And another 15,000 children, each under the age of 5, die each day due to highly preventable causes.
Yet we have this girl with an endless supply of water at her fingertips, with her rights fully protected by a safe and stable government, complaining that her childhood was "stolen."
Do you see the problem here?
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@Vader
@zedvictor4
@Alec
@Discipulus_Didicit
@ebuc
The government is trash at getting things done. The only government that will actually get things done is a progressive government. But, a progressive government is far from likely, so the only thing that will happen, is whatever rich people want to happen.
Government officials aren't rich. They need money fro campaign, projects, and others things. Where do they get the money? Rich people. Most major politicians have rich personal donors (George Soros), or large corporations (NRA). These people and corporations can literally affect an entire country.
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Take the NRA for example.
Guns are bad, and in America, guns are terrible. So why aren't there serious regulations and major steps taken to deal with them? Cause the NRA spends literal millions of dollars buying the politicians (NRA spending). In 2016, the NRA spent $54 million to secure Republican control. Shit...
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Let's take a look at George Soros (this is my theory and could possibly be false, so don't take my word for it).
Soros is a rich rich guy. He has connections to Wall Street. He makes money off American companies' success. When Canadian companies do good, American companies do bad, so he hates Canadian companies.
Canada is rich in oil sands. If we export it, we can potentially because very rich off of it, and potentially overshadow American oil companies. We can export it through the expansion of the pipeline.
So Soros (and the rest of Wall Street) hates the pipeline. Who else hates pipelines? Liberals (well, they don't hate pipelines, but they won't develop them as much as the other parties). And it turns out, the Canadian Federal Election is coming up. Huh, interesting...
Soros paid huge sums of money to make the Liberals win. And that's not all. He also wanted to win the people - to make them hate pipelines. And who hates pipelines (well, climate change actually, but they are related)?
Greta Thunberg.
Why only weeks before the election, did Greta come to Canada? Why didn't see go to the Arctic to support polar bears?
Cause George Soros sponsored Greta's trip to Canada, swaying the minds of millions.
Greta claims that her "parents pay for tickets and accommodations." I claim that's bullshit.
Because of this, George Soros (and the rest of Wall Street) can continue grow his $8 billion wealth.
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So it's not the protesters like Greta that make a difference, it's the billionaires that do.
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@drafterman
@ILikePie5
@zedvictor4
@SirAnonymous
Cool. I'm glad you all agree with me. I thought there would be more conflict here though...
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She got nominated as the number one person this year.
But her campaign's a joke.
You see, she's cool and all, and her campaigns are not that bad, but she's not going to get anything done. She's just wasting her time out their.
Anyone want me to elaborate?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
How will you give money to Jesus?
Does he have like a donations box or something?
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@SirAnonymous
Ah, I was wondering why you never do debates.
Tbh, that's kinda smart because sometimes I lose track of which debate I have to do, and I lose focus, and forget, and I don't have time, and I don't want to, and it because a real hassle.
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@Trent0405
@SirAnonymous
If you flip the top 21 people around, then I become the best debater.
Wait, I dropped places recently. I was at 12th at the start of this week, then I lost a debate I think.
I need to catch up!
Also, what's wrong with you people!? Pineapple pizza's the best!
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Guys, after reading everything you have all said, I have come up with a new Con argument.
After Britain leaves, won't all the other countries leave too?
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@ethang5
@Barney
@Discipulus_Didicit
I'm getting bombarded with questions by three different people. I think I have a better solution. Just ask me a question. That way this debate will be neat. So after you read this post and still disagree, just ask me a question :)
Won't it cause inflation?
No, a UBI won't cause inflation. Inflation is caused when we print too much money, however, in this case, no one is printing money. We are just using original money. So no, a UBI won't cause inflation.
How can we pay for it?
We can pay for a UBI.
- VAT of 10% - $800 billion
- Saved healthcare costs - $150 billion
- Cancellation of social programs (UBI, or current social services) - $500 billion
- Economic growth - $300 billion per year
Of course this won't completely pay off the cost of a UBI, however, it can sufficiently pay off a UBI, so much so that the benefits will be worth the cost.
This money could be used for anything!
DisDid (can I call you DidDid?) brought up a good point. We all are paying taxes to pay for a UBI, however, people may spend their UBI on something against my views.
That's actually a very good point. However, I find it highly opinion based. I'm sure that there's some people that don't care. And besides, I do believe that this money will be used for more good than bad, if that makes any sense.
END.
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@ethang5
@Discipulus_Didicit
Hmm... Money seems to be the issue here.
Putting a dollar into a hat and pulling 5 out is not how UBI works. The money giving to the people will get circulated through the economy, creating a trickle up economy.
The money will be used for development and innovation, and will indirectly return to the people (more jobs, better services, etc.)
Also, what other candidates talks about economy the way Yang does?
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Britain's most likely going to exit the EU after what has happened recently (Boris Johnson).
I think this will be a terrible idea! However I haven't put much thought into it, so I could be wrong. You guys have a chance to change my mind this time.
What do you guys think bout Brexit?
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@ethang5
@Discipulus_Didicit
Sure, I guess I'll just do a debate with Phoenix.
And I'll keep my promise and reply to your previous speech.
<br><br>Think clearly now. The working citizen is going to lose his social benefits, AND get his taxes increased!
Most people would actually want to revive $1000 a month instead of their social benefits. And a good UBI plan (like Yang's) will actually give citizens a choice; to either revive the UBI, or continue their current benefits, one or the other.
Also, your point about taxes. The $1000/mo will make up for the increased taxes. Also, 166 other countries have a VAT, including Europe (I know it's not a country), which has a 20% VAT! We only need a 10% VAT! And out of those 166 countries, 135 of them have a VAT greater than 10%! This certainly proves that a VAT will not be the end of the world.
And then to show how dumb he thinks his supporters are, he says only citizens would receive the UBI anyway. Never disclosing that he is FOR open borders and granting citizenship to all immigrants!
I guess we're also debating politics now! Fine with me :)
Back to your point about immigrants, Yang loves immigrants! He himself is an immigrant! Any concerns you have with this website?
An increase in taxes will depreciate economic growth. Econ 101.
The revenue generated by giving people more money to economically support themselves better is too great to measure.
A UBI will increase the amount of unemployed people in a society.
What!? If anything it'll do the opposite! No study has ever found that a UBI would increase unemployment! It will without a doubt decrease unemployment!
And with the 4th industrial revolution happening, we need more jobs. Now.
A UBI requires the wealth to be generated. Butonly some of the people will be wealth generators. That means the wealth generated by each working citizen will have to be more than his UBI!
I'm not exactly sure to what you're getting at here. Please elaborate.
Please, look up ponzi schemes and educate yourself. I know you mean well, but the experts at economic science agree that the UBI is nonsense.
Never heard the term Ponzi scheme next to UBI before.
Also, find me one expert that doesn't believe in UBI, and I'll show you why.
One last thing. The excuse that the samples in Finland and Canada were too small, is dishonest. In each of those countries, the number of people receiving doles was limited, while the number of working people generating the wealth was not.
What do you mean? A 320 million people is the sample size we're talking about, not a couple thousand/hundred.
The plan did not fail because it ran out of money, it failed because both countries found that the UBI increased joblessness among the recipients, made periods of joblessness longer, and decreased the amount of tax gathered by the government from the generators of wealth.
Well, it actually did run out of money, or was restricted by the budget. And also the sample size was too small to generate a sufficient income.
You tax a wealth generator, and he reduces his expenditures.
But he gets a thousand bucks a month. That is more than he gets taxed.
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Thanks for your reply. See you soon!
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@WaterPhoenix
I'll DM the other two and you guys can start planning. Let me know when you three are ready :)
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@ethang5
@Barney
@Discipulus_Didicit
@WaterPhoenix
Sound great!
Are you three up to the challenge?
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@Barney
@WaterPhoenix
Uhh...
I was thinking more of three separate debates.
Although, Ragnar, would it be possible to do a 3v1 debate in any way?
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@ethang5
@Discipulus_Didicit
@WaterPhoenix
Guys, guys, guys...
This is getting way to messy to read. Perhaps we should start a debate on this. I don't want to continue writing in this format.
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@ethang5
Oh wow! That's a long response. Let's dive in.
I like how you provided all these links as support for your arguments, but you have to take a deeper look.
Also I must say, that's a very interesting format to cite articles. I like it! Would you mind if I use that format in perhaps on of my upcoming debates?
1st LINK
Why did Canada's UBI fail?
Canada did not try the UBI plan on a large enough scale, earning little to no revenue. Only a few people were impacted, and even if they tried, a few people could not change the economy. This lead to economic and social problems, contributing to the ultimate shut down of the program.
Andrew Yang - let's talk about his plan - will implement a UBI on a large scale (the entire country).
2nd LINK
Discounted. First sentence mentions politics. Critical signs of bias.
3rd LINK
Discounted. Says I have to "subscribe" to read more. Bullshit.
However, I did catch a glimpse of one of their statements. They mentioned how it would cost $4 tril a year (US population multiplied by 12 grand). But not if it's Andrew Yang's plan! Yang's plan would only cost half of that due to age requirements.
If an article thinks giving money to new born babies is what a UBI is, then that's a sign that there might be some exaggerated numbers down the line.
4th LINK
That sites lists two major downsides of a UBI.
1) Expensive
2) Political barriers
The article fails to recognize the potential ways that a UBI could be paid for. It only looks at it from one perspective. And the article fails to give an accurate measurement of the cost of a UBI (see above response).
Just to be clear here, the cost of a UBI is around 2.3 tril. And we can pay for that (check out my debate with Swagnarok for more info).
Also, we're only talking about UBI here, not all that political realism and stuff.
5th LINK
Talks about cost. Doesn't look at any proper solutions.
6th LINK
Relating back to Maple Syrup's UBI, we have to talk a look at why it failed.
Here's why.
- Change in social attitude made people treat UBI as a joke (they didn't like being "experimented" on)
- Government held back on fund
- Rushed planning without proper though
Andrew Yang - or a good UBI plan - would be vastly different because of reasons.
income tax would have to increase by nearly 30% to fund a basic income
Aha! Not true! With taxes half of that of the European level (that would be only 10%), we could pay for a significant portion of the UBI. Also, taxes won't be the only reason (I said this before but definitely check out my debate with Swagnarok on an in depth to how to pay for it).
I don't care who tells me he [or she] can get more money out than is put in. I'll call him a loon or a crook.
What if Santa Claus all of a sudden comes down here and tells you that you can make money out of thin air? Would you change your mind?
I know I wouldn't. I would just be confused. But how about you?
Phew! That was a long but good one. Please read this site and let me know why Yang is wrong.
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@WaterPhoenix
Let's make this our mission. We're not going to stop unless one of us agrees with the other side.
are for the middle and rich class
Actually no. A good UBI plan (like Yang's plan) does not discriminate against any economic class.
No, cause I'm middle class
And neither would poor or rich people, thus proving my point exactly. In addition, studies have found that the people that do quit their jobs are so that they could stay home and take care of their family and loved ones, and to go back to school to get a higher education.
wtf is the point of passions if they're not gonna work
My point is that people could now be more economically free. They could now spend their free time not worrying about debt, or work misconduct, but instead spend their time doing more productive things. They could even find a new job, a better job more suitable for them.
poor people don't need to work with ubi
If I get $12,000 a year, I'm not quieting my job. I'm finding a new and better one. Like stated earlier, instead of being confined in a box, a UBI could open a new door for your future.
Elon Musk probably got endorsed
Let's not go off-topic here. But....
You're saying that a $25 billion man is getting endorsed by Yang, who in turn is getting endorsed by Musk?
Also yes, Luther is dead, but it's the idea that counts.
Anything else that this website doesn't cover?
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@ethang5
@WaterPhoenix
Phoenix
waste of the government's money
Nope. The costs will be mostly covered by a VAT, reduced healthcare exegeses (people can car for themselves), and other forms of saved money.
more money to do nothing so they don't actually need to work
Would you quit your job for $12,000 a year? Many studies found that a UBI will actually increase productivity. People will now work not to live, but work to gain benefits (like vacations). People could also pursue their passions, which was previously unreachable due to debt for example.
Ethang
There is no way to get more energy (in this case represented by money) out of a process than is put in.
Nice comparison, but that's not how the economy works. True, were not just going to be printing money, but the money gets cycled, and in each cycle, there's a benefit (say new infrastructure). And it's not all about money. People could now focus more on their families and passions. We're going to see an increase in non-profit activities, and more!
UBI programs, most failed
More explanation is needed. Link me some data.
UBI is pushed by people who haven't a clue how money and economics work.
Well, Andrew Yang supports UBI, and he's an economist. His support also include Elon Musk. Who doesn't love Elon Musk? Martin Luther King is also another name in favour of UBI.
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@ethang5
@WaterPhoenix
Sure, I guess we can argue it here. However it might get a little messy and hard to keep track of who's talking. Regardless, you guys start (and remember to tag me in the question so I get notified).
Why do you guys think a UBI is a bad idea?
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Ah, no worries man, take your time with things.
I guess we can do it in a few months
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@Discipulus_Didicit
Remind me in a few months.
A little long. Could we perhaps squeeze it before Winter break? Or I guess we could do it after if you really want to...
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@ethang5
@Discipulus_Didicit
UBI is stupid?
1) Check out my current debate with Swagnarok on UBI
2) Wanna start a debate on it?
3) Let's argue it right here if you want
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@Stephen
That's an interesting idea. Perhaps a view would be an individual person?
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