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@ILikePie5
Great. More accusations. What is with this place, it seems so many here are paranoid delusional. Grow up, people.Is ATM HB 2.0??? It seems like it to meeeeee
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
“empty shelf.”hyperbole bs, and? I don't like it, but how does that relate to the actual handling of covid?
Yes, I thought you would dismiss it, exactly as I predicted. Well done.
respirators I address already post #87
Yes, but your alleged fact check was fact checked for further clarity of your alleged debunking.
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@RationalMadman
Terribly sorry, not sure how I forgot to do that.Do you know what else I noticed just now? You reply to everyone with the @ function except for me
It doesn't matter to me what you say, I know I am not wrong that you're an alt of someone.
I have no problem you believing whatever you want. I've been trying to be civil and friendly, but you seem to want to pick a fight and accuse me of something. I see no reason to continue this discussion.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Don't forget to address these others.
That states are bidding against other states for equipment, paying many multiples of the precrisis price for ventilators, is Trump’s fault. Air travelers summoned home and forced to stand for hours in dense airport crowds alongside infected people? That was Trump’s fault too. Ten weeks of insisting that the coronavirus is a harmless flu that would miraculously go away on its own? Trump’s fault again. The refusal of red-state governors to act promptly, the failure to close Florida and Gulf Coast beaches until late March? That fault is more widely shared, but again, responsibility rests with Trump: He could have stopped it, and he did not.
The lying about the coronavirus by hosts on Fox News and conservative talk radio is Trump’s fault: They did it to protect him. The false hope of instant cures and nonexistent vaccines is Trump’s fault, because he told those lies to cover up his failure to act in time. The severity of the economic crisis is Trump’s fault; things would have been less bad if he had acted faster instead of sending out his chief economic adviser and his son Eric to assure Americans that the first stock-market dips were buying opportunities. The firing of a Navy captain for speaking truthfully about the virus’s threat to his crew? Trump’s fault. The fact that so many key government jobs were either empty or filled by mediocrities? Trump’s fault. The insertion of Trump’s arrogant and incompetent son-in-law as commander in chief of the national medical supply chain? Trump’s fault.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Fact check: Did the Obama administration deplete the federal stockpile of N95 masks?We rate this claim TRUE because it is supported by our research. There is no indication that the Obama administration took significant steps to replenish the supply of N95 masks in the Strategic National Stockpile after it was depleted from repeated crises. Calls for action came from experts at the time concerned for the country’s ability to respond to future serious pandemics. Such recommendations were, for whatever reason, not heeded.
More than once, President Donald Trump has falsely claimed that the federal stockpile of emergency medicine and supplies he inherited from his predecessor was an “empty shelf.”
While the government does not publicize all of the contents of the repository, at the time Trump took office, the Strategic National Stockpile, as it is formally known, reportedly contained vast amounts of materials that state and local health officials could use during an emergency, including vaccines, antiviral drugs, ventilators and protective gear for doctors and nurses.
“We had to trade off those funds that we had, and we chose to invest in those lifesaving drugs that would not be available from any other source, in the quantity needed, and in time. I definitely want to see my healthcare workers protected; that’s very important. But if I’m thinking, ‘Do I buy this many masks to protect this many workers, or do I buy this many medicines to keep people safe that we can’t get elsewhere?’ there’s no easy answer here,” Burel said.
While the government does not publicize all of the contents of the repository, at the time Trump took office, the Strategic National Stockpile, as it is formally known, reportedly contained vast amounts of materials that state and local health officials could use during an emergency, including vaccines, antiviral drugs, ventilators and protective gear for doctors and nurses.
Greg Burel, who was the director of the Strategic National Stockpile for more than 12 years until he retired in January, recently told CBS News: “We didn’t receive funds to replace those masks, protective gear and the anti-virals that we used for H1N1.”
He told Vice News that he decided to use the program’s limited funding to instead purchase vaccines, flu medications and other pharmaceuticals.“We had to trade off those funds that we had, and we chose to invest in those lifesaving drugs that would not be available from any other source, in the quantity needed, and in time. I definitely want to see my healthcare workers protected; that’s very important. But if I’m thinking, ‘Do I buy this many masks to protect this many workers, or do I buy this many medicines to keep people safe that we can’t get elsewhere?’ there’s no easy answer here,” Burel said.
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you do not understand why Ethang attacked you
It doesn't matter why, he has no right to attack anyone for any reason.
I noticed you spoke on my locked thread, congratulating Ethang5, about how this doesn't work anywhere else.
I wasn't congratulating him, I asked the mods if I may speak on that thread, allowing them the right to remove anything they saw fit from my post there. It was meant to let Ethang5 know that people just can't appoint themselves as what he termed 'gunslingers', as an excuse to go around attacking people who they believe are trolls, multi-accounts, whatever. If he or anyone else has a problem, they contact the mods to deal with it. If as you say, the mod team is corrupt and a person is always getting the short end of the stick, then they are free to leave the forum and go elsewhere.
I'm sorry if this happened to you on this forum before, but that doesn't seem to be the case now. I'm assuming you're enjoying your stay here now?
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@RoderickSpode
Your proof of that is what?So more than likely many evangelist con-artists are atheists.
We all know what you meant
What I meant is that if I had to lie, it would be to save my life. Other than that, I have no reason to lie.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Wow, you sound just like Trump being grilled at a press conference. Amazing impression.no more proof that you have nothing other than biased opinion is required, you may move along
Here's what's funny about the right. I was watching some episodes of a show called, "The Ranch" which depicted the typical modern day mid west cattle rancher. The show's dialogue brought in plenty of political comments similar to what you'd hear at a Trump rally. You know the kind, the left are insane, evil, godless heathens that should be shot.
A large cattle company was coming in and buying up as many ranches as they could, usually preying on those in financial jeopardy. The hatred towards the company became quite apparent, showing just how much these people despised these corporations and especially their lying, cheating and evil executives and leaders.
Now, we have one of those typical executives in power and we'd expect to hear the same thing, but instead, Trump is hailed as the next messiah, the lord and savior of the right. Their God.
It would be really funny if it wasn't so sad the fact that Trump is screwing over every single one of them, one way and another.
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Of course not, I have no reason to do that. If I have any issues, like everyone else on this forum, I would contact a mod, that's how the rules work here and pretty much everywhere else.If you are trying to threaten with mod action
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
You mean, the opinion of millions of people who inform themselves.I thought you might have something more than your opinion
that's common from left leaning people
Yes, we do tend to inform ourselves and recognize bungling fools in power.
links with no context
Would that be the right leaning people who believe Trump is their savior?
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@Vader
The experts knew full well that was not going to happen, yet he said it anyways. Experts were already saying long before that any kind of vaccination would be at least 18 months away, yet Trump wanted to open everything up for Easter. What kind of person does that?There's no way to know the peak and the plateau, hence why he said April.
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@RoderickSpode
Has that ever happened?
Not yet, thankfully.
On the flip-side, if you asked me if I was extorting money from people, then using it to build a place where I could get those people to visit once a week to create a vicious cycle of filling their heads with lies and extorting more money, then no, I would never do such a thing because that would be highly immoral and unethical.
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@RoderickSpode
Depends. If someone claims they've seen pigs fly in some remote area of Wisconsin, and they didn't have a camera at the time, if you were interested to find out if it were true, you'd take a trip to that remote location in Wisconsin.If you don't, you're left with the same problem about God. You could just base you're assumption on the fact that you never saw a flying pig.The problem is there's a possibility there may be a flying pig there. The person who makes the claim is not at fault if there is and you never find out because you can't expect people to always carry a camera. Not everyone uses a smart phone.
That's not really how the discussion was going. Et was claiming he knows himself his claims about a Creator are true, so I used the example that I knew pigs could fly and that if neither one of us was going to offer any detailed explanations with evidence, then both claims can be dismissed.
If 2 Christians were playing golf together, and one of them leaned towards pre-tribulation, the other mid-tribulation, couldn't both of them still have faith in God?
Sure, but neither one was probably using reason, logic or rationale based on evidence, they were both using faith based on Scriptures.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
The links speak volumes, if you aren't going to bother informing yourself on what is one of the most important topics today and the bumbling fool in charge of it all, there's little hope. The specifics are all there on those links, go read them, educate yourself. You are making a mountain out of a molehill simply because I said Trump is doing a bad job. I would suspect that you would instead say he's doing a good job and then provide a bunch of links that I could peruse. Unless it's a link from Fox News, then you probably won't find many that show he has been doing a good job.I thought you were going to give some examples and specifics as to why Trump has done/did a bad job on covid. I've asked several times and after many posts you have yet to do so.
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@RoderickSpode
Yes, when I'm in a standoff with a criminal who's pointing a gun in my face and asks if my gun is loaded.
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This comment on the video was interesting.
"This was NOT beneficial. I am a Muslim Alhumdulillah, but this perspective is nothing short of arrogance. What a terrible way to exploit a pandemic that is affecting every human being on earth. If Allah wanted, He could have made everyone believers by His will. He doesn’t need to send a pandemic to do it."
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
do most people just take your word for things and not challenge you?
Of course not, most people will either read the links I provide or will be well informed themselves, especially when the topic in question is ongoing every single day and one of the most important we've encountered in a long time. It's almost as if one can't not be informed of what's going on, that is, unless they're hiding in a cave.
As I mentioned, Trump supporters will just deny anything put in front of them that didn't come from Fox News. The rest of us can see plain as day what Trump says, what he does and what he bungles, and the list of what he bungles is huge, all the way from his business enterprises to his short political career. Everything is out in the open for all to see.
If someone claims Trump is doing a bad job, some folks will jump to his defense and deny it while saying he is the Lord, while the rest know exactly what's being claimed because it's all out there for anyone to see. It's not a matter of what's being claimed, it's a matter of whether or not you recognize and acknowledge what Trump is bungling or you shut your eyes and ears and shout, Nananananana!
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@RationalMadman
That's what the person claimed who was attacking me and exactly what the mods investigated. That person is now serving a temp ban.Actually, you probably do as you are someone's alt account
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
the first batch I addressed
Yes, and your denials were based on "what you heard".
The problem as you put it, is with you and your line of thinking.
You mean, I inform myself of what Trump is doing and you don't? That kind of problem?
trying to get YOU to prove your assumptions
Had you bothered to inform yourself or read those links I provided, you'd easily find they weren't my assumptions, they were common knowledge all over the internet, the media and the country. It's like you're asking me to give you a recap of everything Trump has bungled when it's all over the internet every single day. It speaks volumes that you either consider everything you read as fake news or you simply have not been informing yourself.
You claimed that nothing in those links was of any value to you, so what would be the point of me copy pasting on this forum for you? You'd just say the same thing.
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@RationalMadman
Wow, that really sucks. When I joined here, I was being attacked by one guy, but the mods here dealt with the situation quite well, they seem like pretty good guys and appear sincere about running a civil forum.When I donated, I was being severely bullied by many here and the moderation was barely fair at all
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@nonjudgmental
No one, not even myself. (:Who here would you trust to give you the closest thing to truth if you had to rely on people from here for information?
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@RationalMadman
I also just now remembered that the address provided for the company was basically a brick wall, that address didn't exist either. I believe he posted a picture from Google Maps of it that showed address number before and after of the one given that did exist on either side of that wall.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I found nothing of value in them
Yeah, I kind of expected you'd say that. That's the problem with Trump supporters, they believe Trump is God and no amount of information is ever going to change their minds. They just call it fake news or some conspiracy theory or just plain old hatred towards Trump. There's no reasoning with them. Those links do indeed provide exactly what you're asking: facts, yet you "found nothing of value". That speaks volumes.
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Are you guys talking about Debate Dot Org? I read a thread one time, I'll see if I can find, in which someone did a search of the alleged company and found it all originated from an apartment in London England and that the entire company (Juggle?? or something) was just a facade, it didn't exist at all, a complete fabrication from one guy in that apartment. Apparently, he created websites showing pictures of the staff, inside the company, etc, but it was all made up, none of those people or the office existed. He had everyone fooled.
Of course, I don't know myself if any of that was true, but if someone here can verify the company existed and it wasn't a facade, I'd be delighted to hear about it because it sure was a hilarious scam.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
That's not true, many posts just make unsubstantiated claims with no supporting links, while others have just links and others have copy pasted material from the links. Few if any follow what you refer to is a general format. The links I posted would have taken you only minutes to look through to see they all say the same thing from multiple sources, that Trump is doing a bad job.
You seem more like you just don't want to read them for fear of finding out that Trump is indeed doing a bad job. It would also show that you may not be informed or are ignoring what Trump is actually doing. Perhaps, you get all your information from Fox News? If you think however, that Trump is doing a great job, go ahead and post a list of links and I'l be more than happy to look through them, no problem.
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@Tradesecret
So, it's the preachers who are sending God's message, not actually God Himself? If that's the case, then I can indeed say that God is not warning me. Here are what devout religious people say about other devout religious people, or in some cases, admit about themselves.Every day millions of preachers around the world are calling people to repentance
"I’m a pastor and, I hate to say, I sometimes tell lies."
"4 Deadly LIES Pastors Tell"
"Evangelical preachers, regardless of their theological flavor, are liars."
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Agreed, you provide links for others to wade through but demand others quote the relevant facts for you. How convenient.here's some irony
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
That's your decision to make. Feel free to ignore them.I'm not going to sift through a bunch of links
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
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@Greyparrot
You make a lot of claims like that but never back them up.The entire "factcheck" industry is unclear because it is clearly equating certain opinions with facts while dismissing other opinions. It's pure political propaganda disguised as an authoritative source.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
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@Greyparrot
Your proof of that is what?Many Democrats are really getting tired of apologizing for China and being publicly shamed for questioning China. At least the ones that identify as American first and Democrat second.
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@Greyparrot
You mean back in January? What is Pelosi saying now? Here, let me help you with that one.On the other hand, there are publicly available clips of Pelosi and other Democratic leaders encouraging Americans to participate in the Chinese New year festivals.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I think they are very different other than the fact they both attack our lungs. Not sure why people compare them.that could very well be, though I sure would like to see a retrospective on it since people do compare covid and flu
anyway many democrats are happy with the job Trump has done
They would be wrong, Trump has done a terrible job, he's a bumbling fool. His record as a business man and politician attest to that.
remember he was called racist
He is a racist, has been for many years and will probably never change. There's a long list of racist remarks he's made publicly since the 1970's.
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faith is trust and confidence, both trust and confidence are developed through evidence, experience and reason. Spiritual faith is not to believe in things with no reason or evidence, that's contrary to what it means to have faith.
Here is the other definition of faith, which actually does refer specifically to Spiritual faith.
Faith - strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.
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@EtrnlVw
I'm quite aware of them already. The source of the Abrahamic religions for creation goes back to Genesis, which is a very short compilation of verses that say very little. Other sources for creation stories from other religions are readily available and have equally been refuted.What I meant was that if you're interested in the claims and knowledge about God then you should be educating and examining the works of religious and spiritual sources
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@EtrnlVw
I'm done with your nonsense.
Is it nonsense to ask someone to explain themselves? Or, is it nonsense for someone to make claims and not explain themselves? If you never asked anyone to explain themselves, then how is it you manage anything in life? Did your teachers in school not explain to you? Does your doctor not explain anything to you? Does your mechanic not explain anything to you when your car breaks down?
The universe is made up of intelligent processes that achieve a particular ends, it operates as an intelligent source, that source would be what we call God (Creator). God uses the processes we observe in the universe to bring things into existence.
That is your claim and it is your responsibility to explain how that happens using evidence. So far, what we know about the universe, no such intelligent source has ever been discovered. Therefore, you have a very difficult task to show otherwise.
Processes do not occur all by themselves, it takes an intelligent source or operator to produce and direct results in a definitive manner. Nothing builds (evolves) itself into existence that has no way of planning, manufacturing or accomplishing that which would entail intelligence.
That's false, all natural events that we currently understand can be shown to occur entirely on their own. If you are claiming otherwise, then you have to prove it. All life evolved from simple beginnings through natural selection and mutation, a process driven entirely on its own. That alone refutes your claim.
It is irrational to believe and accept that inanimate (unintelligent) forces could ever produce anything let alone intelligent processes that manufacture intelligence and sentience.
It can't be irrational if it's already proven to be true. Your statement is false and does not follow common sense.
We associate processes with intelligence or a mind, processes are always associated with intelligence. Production is always associated with a producer, developer is required for something to be developed.... one requires the other.
Yes, when people design and manufacture things, we can easily see the blueprints, the manufacturing process. I already explained that using the example of a commercial airliner. Unfortunately, it does not apply to natural processes.
Evidence (which includes the above assessments as well)
Your evidence so far has been a series of false statements. Evidence to support your claims would be evidence a Prime Mover, which is tantamount to your claim.
Every single result of a production (process) in our real world I can present the originator of, not a single thing that has been produced can be shown to have created itself.
As I said, that doesn't apply to natural processes, science has already established that.
Can anyone show or produce evidence of anything in the real world producing itself without a producer, creator, developer, manufacturer, builder, designer ect ect?
Maybe not, but in nature, there are many. Natural selection is just one example.
In our real life experience everything that brings about a result requires intelligence, so why when it comes to the productions of the universe is anyone willing to that fact?
That's a Strawman argument. That has nothing to do with natural processes that have been shown to occur entirely on their own.
Science doesn't claim processes occur all by themselves
Science doesn't have to make that claim, the processes themselves demonstrate they occur on their own.
To make the assumption that the scientific method exempts God or a Creator from the equation is to abruptly inject ones own presumptions
That's another Strawman argument, no one ever said that.
Science is not atheistic, it is a neutral study meaning that it is not only compatible with Theism but it shows the processes of how God creates things.
Science does not show any God in the processes of nature, that is your personal opinion.
Nothing ever comes from nothing since there was always something (intelligence/awareness) out of which all processes occur, this is a superior platform to any other hypothesis than to accept that somehow inanimate forces of nature developed intelligent processes.
That is your personal opinion and has already been refuted by the processes of nature. Evolution by natural selection is but one process that occurs entirely on its own, which refutes that statement.
Evolution is also NOT an atheistic proposition even though it is presumed by atheists.
Not at all, many religious people all over the world accept evolution as fact and understand that the process of natural selection occurs entirely on its own. Others believe it is driven by God, but their beliefs have been refuted.
Evolution too is a process that brings about a desired intelligent ends and results, it is by this very process how God plans and achieves that which It wants to create. It is by that very process why you even exist as a human, why we have the benefit of looking out into creation to observe the many beautiful species that exist as they do.
Almost 98% of all species to ever exist on Earth are now extinct. The reason for that is because natural selection is a process that occurs entirely on its own.
Anyone willing to consider this as a legit premise feel free to engage and move forward. There's lots more to discuss, how God did all this and by what methods, why does God create anything...how does this relate to you personally, what is a soul, why do we need physical bodies, why are there many different religions, what is the purpose behind spirituality ect ect just let me know.
Unfortunately, your argument has been refuted by science, so you can't move forward until you explain yourself. All you've done so far is make claims and false statements about nature and it's processes.
I hope you have better luck, looking forward to seeing your explanations about God.
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@Greyparrot
You're quite sure they're not available? You've done the research?do you find it a bit peculiar that the covid stats are quite readily available from other countries but the flu stats are not?
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
Other pandemics were covered, but didn't affect anywhere near the amount of people or how quickly it spread. Perhaps, it also has to do with how fast information gets around the globe these days.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
If you'd like to place blame the W.H.O. is probably the best target.
You can't blame the WHO for the lack of information provided by each individual government. They aren't a police force.
Have you read through the WHO website, here's something on the seasonal flu.
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@Greyparrot
We weren't talking about China, we were talking about the flu and specifically the numbers in the US.
If you don't think Trump fired experts from the CDC and decreased their funding and that the US is suffering as a result, please do explain yourself rather than insulting me.
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@Greyparrot
No, Trump wasn't right. Trump is trying to blame the WHO for his own bungling incompetence of handling the pandemic.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
I would agree we probably should have better information about the flu, but unfortunately, Trump fired lots of folks from the CDC and cut their funding.
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Trump has taken 10 times more questions than any other president from MSM media that systemically reports half-truths and censors things their corporate sponsors don't like.
Everything Trump says is broadcast for all to see. He often refuses to answer questions when his accountability is at stake. The rest of your statement sounds like a conspiracy theory.
The number one laughable charge of Trump is that he suppresses free speech when almost everyone, even many of his supporters, would want him to shut up.
The charges I've seen is that Trump constantly lies, is incompetent, is a narcissist and could care less about his supporters.
CNN regularly cuts away from the president's comments on daily press briefings to deliver their own sermon instead, dictating what people need to see, hear, and think. Exactly as China's regime does.
If you can prove that, I'd like to see it, but it doesn't matter considering everything Trump says publicly can be found, easily. It's when you do see everything he says that really shows how much of an imbecile he is.
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@RoderickSpode
If the person can't explain anything in regards to God, why then would they claim that what they say is legitimate? I used the example of flying pigs. If I can't explain why pigs can fly, but will claim I know they can, how is that legitimate?But in regards to God, the explainer can only go so far, and then the rest might be up to the hearer.
And because I think God made us to love studying, exploring, thinking, and yes; applying logic and reason, we will disagree on a number of texts.
I wouldn't agree with that, God wants people to have faith in Him.
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@EtrnlVw
You can go back and find that in any one of my posts with explanations.
No, you didn't provide explanations, that's what I've asking for all this time.
You can go back and find that in any one of my posts.
Your claims had no evidence, they were just claims.
The available body of facts and information can be found in the overwhelming data base of religious and spiritual sources, that's up to you to source.
No, it isn't up to me to source, that's not how these discussions work. I don't support your claims, YOU do. That's how it works. If you aren't aware how it works, there are some detailed explanations right here on this forum on how to debate. You'll find that it is indeed you who has to support your claims, that it's up to you to provide explanations and sources, not me.
We're not getting anywhere, you have refused to explain your claims and you expect your claims to be taken as legitimate when they can't be considering there is no evidence to substantiate them and that all evidence to date doesn't not support them in any way.
Unfortunately, until you do decide to come forth and explain yourself, your claims remain unsubstantiated and are no more than just personal opinions.
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@EtrnlVw
Sorry, but based on what we already know, four centuries of knowledge, your argument is not logical, reasonable or rational. Are you sure you know the meanings of those words? I can provide detailed explanations of those terms and you'll see for yourself your claims do not abide by them.All readers are free to read the logic and reasoning I used in my posts and at any time engage them. We're not talking about pigs flying, I gave you the basis of my argument and it's a rational basis.
I understand we're not talking about pigs flying, but I am forced to use that example to show you that your claims cannot be taken as legitimate if you can't provide and explanations. Do you actually think this is how things work, that anyone can say anything and we are just supposed to take it as legitimatize?
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@Greyparrot
Trump is one of the worst liars, right up there with China and North Korea. Aren't the leaders of those countries Trumps bros'?Because people and governments that censor are evil liars by nature.
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@TheDredPriateRoberts
This might help and it explains why numbers are hard to find.
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@EtrnlVw
a legit proposition
I have to ask this question and hope others can chime in with their opinions.
Is it fair that any claim can be made without explanations and they are all considered legitimate, no matter what the claim?
If it is fair, then why are there disagreements in religious discussions between theists?
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