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@Best.Korea
Yep. Complete victory
Strike a Blow at Tel Aviv!
Posts
Total:
200
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@Vegasgiants
Great. Let me know when you actually win.
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@Best.Korea
OK
We won
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@Vegasgiants
Ok
So you cant win.
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@Best.Korea
We won
You lost
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@Vegasgiants
I will go talk to someone who isnt boring. Bye now.
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@Best.Korea
Accept your loss gracefully
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@Vegasgiants
You were dismissed. Bye.
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@Best.Korea
You can't even leave correctly. Lol
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@Vegasgiants
Bye.
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@Best.Korea
Say it again
Lol
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@Best.Korea
And it tooks you 80 years and you still dont win
Israel is humane and trying to preserve life. I think Hamas may have changed their mind though.
Hamas I guess was helping Palestinians by inciting Israel to start bombing the weapons they have stored in civilian areas.
Things Israel has done in response to Hamas. Please tell me if these actions help or hurt Palestinians so we can evaluate whether Hamas provocation was a good move for Palestinians. Which will help determine if Hamas cares about helping Palestinians or hurting people.
Israel has shut off electricity to the Gaza strip
Israel has shut off water to the Gaza strip
Israel has stopped all food from going into Gaza.
Israel is bombing civilian locations that are being used as weapons caches and hold things like rockets and using Palestinians as human shields.
Those things I don't think help Palestinians. What about more directly. Let's see if what Hamas directly does to Palestinians helps then.
1. They have taken concrete donated to them meant to build schools and hospitals and used it to build underground tunnels for guerilla warfare.
W. They have taken their own water pipes put there by Israelis to make sure they have drinking water, and literally turned them into parts for rocket.
Nearly all the aid sent to the region to help the poor people there, is taken by hamas and used to prepare for war instead of helping its people live better lives.
If you want to help Palestinians the best way to do is to support Israel removing the people harming them. Which is Hamas. If you are against the Palestinians being oppressed, you should support the defeat of their biggest oppressor. Hamas
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@ponikshiy
To make my position clear before I respond, both sides are wrong. Hamas is evil, murdering civilians en masse. The israeli government is equally as evil. They systematically starve and kill Palestinians year after year while stealing more and more of their land making peace harder and harder. Neither side is innocent. Both sides are wrong.
Israel is humane and trying to preserve life.
the hundreds of Palestinians the Israeli's kill per year would disagree. Also starving Palestinians and bombing their hospitals isn't very humane.
Hamas I guess was helping Palestinians by inciting Israel to start bombing the weapons they have stored in civilian areas.
this is likely a primary goal. The Saudi's were getting close to recognizing Israel and having formal relations with them. I suspect the reason for the brutality was to force the Israeli government (who are made up of far right wing lunatics) to react with equal brutality. This makes is very difficult for arab and/or muslim nations to engage with Israel while they murder thousands of Palestinian children.
Israel is bombing civilian locations that are being used as weapons caches and hold things like rockets and using Palestinians as human shields.
I'm sure this is true in at least some cases. But they are bombing so many things so fast, there is no chance they know that is true in all cases. They are bombing civilian targets without being sure what they are bombing. But like I said, the Israeli government is the furthest right, craziest government Israel has ever had. Half of them would have loved to do this even without Hamas attacking them 1st.
Those things I don't think help Palestinians. What about more directly. Let's see if what Hamas directly does to Palestinians helps then.
it depends on how you look at things. If your ultimate goal is to keep people as happy and safe as possible, then obviously this doesn't help them. But if the ultimate goal is to retake your homeland and drive out the evil invaders that have tortured your people for generations, then this might be the best thing they could do. I'm not making the argument that it is, just trying to play devil's advocate.
Let's put it this way, let's say your country were invaded by an evil 3rd party. They enslave your people, steal your land, leave your children on the brink of starvation; would your primary goal be to do what they say so they kick you a little softer? Or would it be to find a way to drive them out? fighting them will undoubtedly lead to alot of death and destruction, but if you don't, your people have no future other than slaves or prisoners.
If you want to help Palestinians the best way to do is to support Israel removing the people harming them.
lol Israel are the people harming them. Hamas is certainly not doing them any favors either, but it is Israel bombing their schools and hospitals. It is Israel fencing them off in small corners of what used to be their country and killing them if they dare to say otherwise while they build more and more settlements on stolen land.
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@HistoryBuff
Peace comes with complete and unconditional surrender of hamas
Only then can the lives of Palestinians begin to improve
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@Vegasgiants
Peace comes with complete and unconditional surrender of hamasOnly then can the lives of Palestinians begin to improve
how would that improve the situation for the Palestinians? They would still be prisoners/slaves of Israel. Even if you could destroy hamas, Israel would continue treating Palestinians like garbage and continue building settlements on their stolen land. Then Palestinians would get angry enough to fight back and we are right back at hamas, but under a new name.
Bombing terrorists does not solve anything. All it does is create more angry people who then become terrorists. The only way to get rid of terrorists is by addressing the reasons they become terrorists in the 1st place. Israel has no intention of doing that. Until Israel is ready to actually deal with the underlying issues, the conflict will go on forever. and the current Israeli government is so far right, that they would rather kill every Palestinian than actually negotiate in good faith.
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@HistoryBuff
So many ways. Israel can be guardians for them. They can greatly improve conditions in gaza by taking over the government there. Palestinians are incapable of peaceful self government. They must accept that Israel will run things. Then their lives can improve
Their terrorist attacks have only made their lives much worse. They need a better plan....acceptance of living under Israeli rule
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@Vegasgiants
So many ways. Israel can be guardians for them. They can greatly improve conditions in gaza by taking over the government there. Palestinians are incapable of peaceful self government. They must accept that Israel will run things. Then their lives can improve
translation, they will be slaves of Israel. They will learn to like it or die. This is how you create terrorists.
Their terrorist attacks have only made their lives much worse. They need a better plan....acceptance of living under Israeli rule
lol, so in your world, the solution to war is to get the poor, powerless people to like being slaves of the powerful? Did you really think that was a solution? Or are you just messing with me?
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@HistoryBuff
No more slaves than native Americans. We set the standard for how a democracy runs
Eventually Palestinians will accept their lot in life. But no more self government. They are incapable of peaceful self government
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@Vegasgiants
No more slaves than native Americans.
native americans are full US citizens. They have every single right and protection that any other US citizen has. They can travel anywhere they want at any time they want. They can pray wherever they want. They can vote in elections and have equal say in who their representatives are. None of these things are true for Palestinians. The two are nowhere near comparable.
Eventually Palestinians will accept their lot in life. But no more self government. They are incapable of peaceful self government
you can't actually believe that? The Arabs/Palestinians outnumber the jews in Israel/Palestine. And since the Palestinian birth rate is so much higher than Israel's that trend is going to continue. They are not just going to lay down and accept slavery. Israel has to actually make a deal with them to resolve the issue. War and conflict will go on until Israel does this, or until Israel is forced to do this. But they have basically ruled out the only plans.
A 1 state solution is out because they refuse to allow Palestinians to vote. They would very quickly get outvoted by the Palestinians.
And a 2 state solution is out because Israel has been building illegal settlements in Palestinian land and a 2 state solution would require giving much of this land back. But they've filled the stolen land with hundreds of thousands of Jewish people. Which means no israeli government could get away with evicting them. And that was exactly the point. To make peace impossible.
And "they should accept slavery" is not a peace plan. It is a plan to create terrorists.
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@HistoryBuff
Native Americans did not get full citizenship for over 100 years. That was 100 years of peace....then they get citizenship . So native Americans DID accept "slavery".
Maybe eventually we will let Palestinians have the same rights. They could even open up a casino. Lol
Statistics reveal that since its independence in 1776, the U.S. government has launched over 1,500 attacks on Indian tribes, slaughtering the Indians, taking their lands, and committing countless crimes. In 1814, the U.S. government decreed that it would award 50 to 100 dollars for each Indian skull surrendered. The American Historian Frederick Turner acknowledged in The Significance of the Frontier in American History, released in 1893, that each frontier was won by a series of wars against the Indians.
The California Gold Rush also brought about the California Massacre. Peter Burnett, the first governor of California, proposed a war of extermination against Native Americans, triggering rising calls for the extermination of Indians in the state. In California in the 1850s and 60s, an Indian skull or scalp was worth 5 dollars, while the average daily wage was 25 cents. From 1846 to 1873, the Indian population in California dropped to 30,000 from 150,000. Countless Indians died as a result of the atrocities.
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@Vegasgiants
Native Americans did not get full citizenship for over 100 years.
Oh I see. so your argument is that we, in the modern day, should be pushing for a policy of genocidal destruction of a race of people like america did 200 years ago. This basically guarantees that the Palestinians will continue to fight because you aren't leaving them any other choice. It's literally fight, die or live as a slave.
So native Americans DID accept "slavery".
not really no. They fought for a very long time. The fighting only really ended when most native tribes were decimated and therefore the natives were massively outnumbered, like 1000 to 1. To make that scenario true in Palestine, Israel would have to kill several million people. Basically, they would have to recreate the holocaust.
Maybe eventually we will let Palestinians have the same rights.
Israel wont ever let the Palestinians have rights. There are already more of them than Jewish people. If Palestinians were treated as actual people, Israel would become an Palestinian state with a very large Jewish minority. So Israel will always treat the Palestinians like dogs. And the Palestinians know that. That is why Israel has made terrorism inevitable. Israel is causing the problem.
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@HistoryBuff
They shoukd pursue peace. That comes with a unconditional surrender by hanas and a pledge by the plo to support the state of Israel.
Palestinians can have full rights when they earn them. Just like native Americans
Have you given your house back to native Americans?
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@Vegasgiants
They shoukd pursue peace. That comes with a unconditional surrender by hanas and a pledge by the plo to support the state of Israel.
that isn't peace, it's slavery. I would imagine if you were being told to submit to being a slave, you would also not be very keen on it. That will never happen. Insisting that that is the solution just guarantees more violence and terrorism.
Palestinians can have full rights when they earn them. Just like native Americans
ok but they didn't "earn them". They were wiped out. They were "pacified" by having the large majority of them be killed. Are you advocating Israel kill millions of Palestinians? Because that is the only way this comparison makes sense.
Have you given your house back to native Americans?
Again, are you advocating genocide? It kind of sounds like you are advocating genocide.
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@HistoryBuff
So that's a no? You won't give your house back to native Americans?
Why?
they build more and more settlements on stolen land.
“Stolen land” is a nonsensical term to me. As if someone can grab your land, put it on a truck, and drive away with it, never to be seen again. The only thing that gives one true ownership of land is the ability to defend it against invaders.
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@Vegasgiants
So that's a no? You won't give your house back to native Americans?
so you're just going to ignore literally everything I said? This comparison only works if you're talking about genocide. The Americans wiped out the natives, drove the handful of survivors into fenced off areas, then eventually gave them rights. The only way it makes sense to compare this to Palestine is if you talking about wiping out most of the Palestinians. Is that what you are advocating for?
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@cristo71
“Stolen land” is a nonsensical term to me. As if someone can grab your land, put it on a truck, and drive away with it, never to be seen again. The only thing that gives one true ownership of land is the ability to defend it against invaders.
lol, most of the world recognizes the land the settlements being built on as Palestinian land. You can actually go and find the specific Palestinian that owns land the Israeli's are building houses on. This isn't some abstract concept. The land is owned by people. The israeli's forced them off the land with guns and started building stuff on the land that they do not own. Almost the whole world calls them out on this all the time, they just don't care.
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@HistoryBuff
Well you won't answer my direct question
Why?
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@HistoryBuff
The land you live on is native American land