The Hamas attack on Israel

Author: ponikshiy

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I want to keep this subject contained to a single thread where various conversations can take off. 

On the one hand the Israel invasion of Palestine with hostile "settlers" was essentially them demanding a response. Clearly Palestine was not going to allow itself to be invaded. Thy aren't America. 

However on the other hand. Hamas is killing civilians, kidnapping and clearly is acting like a terrorist. There is no reason to target civilians. 

Though I do wonder if the videos put out from Hamas are just Israeli propaganda, because it makes little sense for them to show that sort of evil and get the whole world against them. It makes more sense for then to propagandize the opposite. 


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Every country targets civilians in war.

So every country is terrorist. We are as bad as everyone else, yay!
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@Best.Korea
Most countries do not target civilians. Civilian casualties are unavoidabl but typically bot intentional
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It looks like since 2008 Israel has unprovoked attacked and killed Palestinian civilians on at least 4 major incidents. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/7/sirens-warn-of-rockets-launched-towards-israel-from-gaza-news-reports

I understand Israel is more in the wrong here because they are killing more civilians and this is merely retaliation for the murder of civilians but there has to be a better way
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Remember that all is fair in love and war.
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@ponikshiy
US killed over 200,000 civilians in Iraq. They even had snipers targeting children because they could carry bombs. Also, almost every US drone strike kills more civilians than soldiers.

But sure, you dont target civilians. You just miss a lot and happen to kill a lot of civilians. Hey, maybe Russians dont target civilians either. They just target buildings and civilians happen to be inside them.
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2 states
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Well, we all know that Hamas attacked now because they knew that The US House was not around to declare war.
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@FLRW
Congress hasn't cared about that since the Bush days.

It's more likely the entire planet minus 33% of US Democrats knows Biden is out of session in the head.
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@ponikshiy
Some might say Israelis never left,

Though other's might argue other groups became majorities over time,
Christians during Crusades, Muslims during Ottoman expansion.
. . .

Who can blame the Jewish people for looking to return to their homeland?
To form a nation of their tribe?

Not that I'm taking sides much,
I don't know much.

But it often 'sounds that Palestine started to exist as a 'country, once Arab nations in the area took a worry about the reoccurrence of Israel as a nation.

Not that Palestinians did not exist, did not live on their own land already,
But buffer states are a concept,
A reason for Arab nations to encourage immigration to Palestine.
. . . . .

Just propaganda?
What type of videos would one 'expect, from a 'terrorist organization?
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@Lemming
Just propaganda?
What type of videos would one 'expect, from a 'terrorist organization?
Propaganda campaigns that make then look like the good guys and recruit people to their side. 
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@ponikshiy
Terrorists are more,
"It is better to be feared than to be loved." - Niccolò Machiavelli 
Fellows, I think.

Not that they can't try for both,
I imagine many of their followers 'love them for murdering, raping, disgracing their 'enemy.
Love them for promoting their tribe values.

And I mean tribe as in group,
Not that I am calling them a backwards people, in this post.
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@Lemming
Maybe that technique us just good for .uslims who are more prone to be fond of violence then it would be for peaceful religions. 
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@ponikshiy
I think Islam 'can be peaceful,
That location and time though, pretty unpeaceful.
. . .

Palestine[edit]
Since being annexed by Egypt in 1959, the Gaza Strip has applied Egyptian penal law Articles 290 and 291, although these have been repealed in Egypt itself in 1999.[42] After being annexed by Jordan in 1950, the West Bank has applied the 1960 Jordanian penal law Article 308.[42] It is unclear how often the law was applied in practice. Ikhlas Sufan, director of a Nablus victims of violence shelter, told Human Rights Watch that "between 2011 and 2017 prosecution for rape has been halted in 60 cases – in which the shelter was helping the women – after the alleged rapist agreed to marry the victim. In 15 of these cases the women later divorced these men."[81] After an activist campaign put pressure on the Palestinian Authority, president Mahmoud Abbas eventually signed Law no. 5 of 2018 on 14 March 2018, which repealed article 308 of the 1960 Penal Code enforced in the West Bank. However, because the Gaza Strip is de facto controlled by Hamas, the Egyptian-derived marry-your-rapist law still applies there.[81]

Which isn't me saying all Palestinians are backwards rapists,
But it sounds to still be a fair bit in the culture there.
. . . . .

Course rape itself is common in war, on any side, not that it's good,
But lot of the view by a lot of the people in that neck of the woods, is war, enemies, dehumanization, degradation, horror.

There is that in Ukraine and Russia 'now as well.

And of course America in some of our times as well.
"War is Hell" - William Tecumseh Sherman.

Course Sherman also went on to oppress the Native Americans 
. . .

One see's inhumanity often in conflict.
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@ponikshiy
Hamas is killing civilians, kidnapping and clearly is acting like a terrorist. There is no reason to target civilians. 
Hamas is deemed a terrorist organization by the international community. Lol. What were you expecting? 

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@IlDiavolo
We still have to assume they are rational people. A cost benefit analysis for doing that, seems to indicate it is a bad move that helps your enemies propagandize for recruiting purposes
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@ponikshiy
Ever see Disney's WW2 cartoons of Americas enemies?
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@Lemming
I just saw this video by a pro Palestinian news agency. Apparently the other videos were israeli propaganda because hamas appears to be protecting women and children caught in the crossfire

https://youtube.com/shorts/vrRe97wGFHA?si=f8C_o15O7wOwe3_f
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@Lemming
I just saw this video by a pro Palestinian news agency. Apparently the other videos were israeli propaganda because hamas appears to be protecting women and children caught in the crossfire

https://youtube.com/shorts/vrRe97wGFHA?si=f8C_o15O7wOwe3_f
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@ponikshiy
Many people involved, I can't say 'all are bad,
But I see a lot of bad.




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@ponikshiy
Take "civilians" with a grain of salt. This is an ethnic conflict where civilians and combatants cross the line frequently. 
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Good on Hamas
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@ponikshiy
Do you know why Biden released 6 billion of frozen assets to Iran?
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@Greyparrot
I assume for a stupid publicity win. The same with the Britney griner swap
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@ponikshiy
Biden seems more and more like Darth Vader. He was supposed to be the chosen one to lead us out of darkness. Not into it.
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What is funny is Bloomberg would have actually led you out of that darkness with his policies and he stood no shot at winning
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@ponikshiy
What is the real difference between a civilian and a non-civilian?

Does one have three legs or something.
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@zedvictor4
The non civilian is the person shooting at you. The civilian is the mother breast feeding her baby in the park while watching her 3 year old play on the slide. 

You could also divide them into combatants and non combatants 
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@ponikshiy
There is no Palestine.   There never was
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@ponikshiy
If terrorists stop attacking Israelis.....the war ends