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@Critical-Tim
The drawbacks of overthink.
Which isn't to say that overthink doesn't have it's benefits.
Catch 22
Yin and Yang.
Why is rape traumatizing if sex is fine? (Equal experience, one voluntary, the other not)
Posts
Total:
64
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@zedvictor4
What is Yin Yang in comment 22?
Are you saying my comment contains a balanced perspective of Yin and Yang, or my view is Yin and to another person's Yang?
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@Critical-Tim
Joseph Heller...Catch 22.
Have you never heard the expression?
I was just suggesting that for every positive there is an inevitable negative.
Sort of a balance thing.
Overthink... Clever and stupid.
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@Critical-Tim
If you think making love and rape are an "equal expreience, then when you make love, you are doing it wrong.
Just watch8bg some crime shows.
So like,,, You can be "involved" with someone,
butttt when you have sex with em, you become , " romantically involved " with them.
So sex is like "romantic".
Oh but the word " FORCE " then enters the fray.
The act of Forcing yourself on somone.
Ive had 20 plus "girlfriends" right.
And ive been racking my brains trying to think if one of them liked ummmm.
Nice straight foward missionary style.
▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪▪
NOW A GAME WE CAN ALLLLLL PLAY .
I call it. ( GUESS THE STATS )
☆☆☆☆☆ Imagine the stats of. ☆☆☆☆☆
Girls / women that REALLY TRULY PREFER.
( A ) Nice straight sex in the missionary pos. In out, in out.
Vs
Im gonna say mild, slightly ruff.
( B ) Mild hair pulling and a little choke and to be called a slut.
?????? HAVE IT A GUESS. ??????
If you asked a million females.
How many want ( A )
How many ( B )
Use 100.
Again .
How many women want ( A )
How many want ( B )
For example.
65 A
V
35 B.
This is a good example because i belive it would be nowhere close to this.
But Go on.
Guess..
I fucking dare ya to.
PS
Next post we will talk about.
Homosexual rape .
V
Hetro rape.
And we will compare these differences.
Big Big differences.
Becauseeeeeeeeee, you can almost guess that being ( homosexualy or heterosexualy ) the opposite of what you are would be worse right?
And thats fucked up right there.
I will not ask if you can be transexualy raped.
I refuse too.
Being bi sexual must lessen the trauma.
No
But maybe.
No.
Why did we invent the word. ( Sodomy )
I don't want that search on my google history.
So Tell me about it.
So if sex is fine, rape is fine? No wonder all the women have left this site.
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@Sidewalker
If you think making love and rape are an "equal experience, then when you make love, you are doing it wrong.
I appreciate the advice. Truly, why do you believe rape constitutes that causes many to suffer from PTSD?
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@Deb-8-a-bull
In my scenario, there is no difference in experience between voluntary and involuntary, yet involuntary still causes PTSD.
Though, I do understand how you were explaining involuntarily is almost never the same experience.
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@FLRW
So, if sex is fine, rape is fine?
No, I believe that's the wrong conclusion. I believe that it's something specific to the mind and not the physical experience that draws the distinction between individuals who experience PTSD from those who don't.
In other words, physical experience is not what causes PTSD; it is how the mind perceives an experience.
Surly getting raped by the hot looking man stud (Cory ) isn't as traumatic and or post traumatic as getting done by (Gerald) the 58 year old homless guy with no teeth.
A Prostitutes position.
Selling yourself . May lay inbetween vol and invol.
No it don't .
I think the closest thing to rape i and most men have experienced .is.
Getting real drunk a rooting a fat chick anddddd then waking up in the morn and remembering and regretting.
( Nothing at all to do with rape butttttt. )
When you recollect something like that, you cringe.
Cringing must be a mild ptsd effect.
You know That feeling you get.
I liken it to
( ACE VENTURA pet detective ) when he realizes that she was a he.
And then his in the hot shower scrubbing himself real real hard , and his crying.
Hang on a sec..
A rapeist you'd think would or could suffer from this PTSD thing also.
Being scared of getting caught would surely mess with ya head.
Going to jail as a rapests appears to look stressful as.
I don't want to say , even more then the victum, butttttt.
Bringing me to The crude joke that is.
( To avoid rape , just say yes. )
Im sure this has some substance to it.
Here is A way worse " joke " i once heard.
Whats the best thing about raping a 10 year old girl ?
Answer : you can turn them around and root a 10 year old boy.
Thats totally sick and wrong buttttt, ive never not heard a person laugh at it.
So on that note.
I'm just gonna shut up now.
GOOD GAME.
GOOD GAME.
A lot can happen in ( 3 to 5 minutes. )
You could be smack bang in the middle of Voluntary sex , then in a instant, it becomes unvoluntary.
Thennnnn back to voluntary for 23 more seconds .
Followed buy unvoluntry for 2 mins and 43 seconds.
And ya finishing it of with a good 1 min and 8 seconds of vol .
Imagine having this "power".
The ability to turn ( vol into invol ) in a click of the fingers.
So yeah .
A lot can go down in( 2 minutes and 34 seconds )
I mean 5 mins.
Also.
Imagine having this " power " of being able to last like 10 wholeeeeeeeeeeeeee minutes.
This greatly increases the risk for error.
Now keeping in mind the main thing here is.
All im saying is.
Who decides if its vol or invol. ?
It only seems like only one person can do that right?
I think i remember my mum telling me once. ( It takes two to tango. )
This is not a good fucking lessons at all hey.
It takes two to tango.
It lessors the females part hey. Blokes think this and they are instantly like .
' Well she went back there to his house '
And .
she must of known what Robbo does with chick he takes home.
Along with.
A real real short skirt.
But It takes one to rape hey.
Or 3.
Or like 18.
Hang on.
What about 18 people having voluntry sex and 1 person having invol.
That my friend is whats called rape.
If One person finds it invol.
How can one invol forfeit / overwrite 18 vols. ?
' gets calculator out '
And Carry the two .
Nope. One invol is more powerful then 18 vols.
Well I'll be.
Lets try 100 people voluntary having sex and 1 person having invol.
=
Wow, that equals rape again.
Im not going to waste my time trying
1000 vols.
V
1 invol.
But i will try.
1 million people having voluntary sex
And
1 person not.
=
WTF
I bet ya can't guess it.
Correct.
Thats RAPE.
i bet ya want me to try 1 billion dont you. ?
Ok i will.
What if you get 1 billion people having voluntary sex and one person not .
Carry the two.
( hovers over equals button )
Presss
It is.
That to is
R
A
P
E
Crazy hey?
There aint no way around this.
Soooooooooo.
As blokes .
The question or problem to solve issssss.
How can we make chick volunteer
No i mean.
How to make the unvoluntry voluntry?
Roger that ten four.
Wing man # 14 reporting for duty.
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@Critical-Tim
Why is a voluntary act fine, but the same act unvoluntary is traumatic?
The answer is quite obvious isn't it? Just in the mere way you juxtaposed "voluntary" and "involuntary" provides insight. We have to examine the meaning of voluntary and involuntary association. Voluntary association is mutually beneficial, while involuntary association benefits an aggressor. The body -- the physical manifestation of one's self is both the container and shield of the self. To lose control of the body is to lose control of the self. To lose control of the body is to lose control of one's primary and final protection. Without some sense of protection, fear takes over. Fear is the basis for trauma.
Additionally, do only women experience this,
No.
do they experience it more than men, or do they experience this equally?
It's incredibly difficult to substantiate generalizations.
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@Athias
It seems that you highlight that forcibly losing one's autonomy is what causes fear, and it is this fear that brings forth PTSD?
As far as generalizations are concerned, I would prefer evidence, but if we lack it, personal experience is a worthy substitute. In essence, I have you noticed this to cause PTSD in men? Most notably, a large percentage of male and female veterans suffer from PTSD, which possibly bridging the gap of trauma between the genders. if we could identify the source of trauma in war veterans than perhaps associate it with the trauma of rape, we might find a more solid conclusion.
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@Critical-Tim
you highlight that forcibly losing one's autonomy is what causes fear, and it is this fear that brings forth PTSD?
I would imagine so.
As far as generalizations are concerned, I would prefer evidence, but if we lack it, personal experience is a worthy substitute. In essence, I have you noticed this to cause PTSD in men?
In men? I don't have the necessary sample size to make such a generalization. But from personal experience, yes, I have witnessed individuals subjected to trauma as a result of having one's autonomy undermined.
if we could identify the source of trauma in war veterans than perhaps associate it with the trauma of rape, we might find a more solid conclusion.
The issue with the attempt to create a "solid conclusion" is the attempt to elide individual evaluation. In order to establish a control, one would have to demonstrate that the cause and the result are reproducible. And when it comes to one's autonomy; one's body; one's personal space for that matter, the causes and results aren't so clearly defined.
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@Critical-Tim
Why is it that women can endure sex, but rape of an equal experience is traumatizing?
Women aren't the only people who are raped. The physical sensations may be equal but the total experience is not. Full answer below:
Is the source of trauma embedded in fully recognizing one's helplessness?
Trauma is an extreme version of dissatisfaction that penetrates and inhabits the subconscious. All dissatisfaction, and thus trauma, arises from the violation of values.
Man determines his own values, some are much more common and biologically encouraged than others. Liberty is an axiomatic value, meaning all cognizant beings value their own liberty.
Violating liberty is thus sure to cause dissatisfaction, if it is perceived to be a severe violation it will cause trauma.
"helplessness" orbits the above precise analysis while being far to vague. Some people like feeling helpless as it allows them to enjoy the satisfaction of trusting, but since the trust was their will liberty is not violated.
Is the past determined by our perspective, and the same experience if viewed positive or negative will be such an experience?
The past is all that was. The physical experience is an objective part of the past, but so are the emotions and beliefs a person held at the time.
A person with the 'correct' philosophy and sufficient will can overcome all dissatisfaction, but that does not mean values are illusions, rather it means self-delusion/self-discipline is unbounded.
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@Athias
if we could identify the source of trauma in war veterans than perhaps associate it with the trauma of rape, we might find a more solid conclusion.The issue with the attempt to create a "solid conclusion" is the attempt to elide individual evaluation. In order to establish a control, one would have to demonstrate that the cause and the result are reproducible. And when it comes to one's autonomy; one's body; one's personal space for that matter, the causes and results aren't so clearly defined.
I suppose you don't believe there is an underlying consistency among all individuals that triggers trauma?
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@ADreamOfLiberty
"helplessness" orbits the above precise analysis while being far to vague. Some people like feeling helpless as it allows them to enjoy the satisfaction of trusting, but since the trust was their will liberty is not violated.
I believe I understand. You highlight that it is not quite helplessness, but unwilling relinquishment of one's own autonomy that stimulates trauma?
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@Critical-Tim
"helplessness" orbits the above precise analysis while being far to vague. Some people like feeling helpless as it allows them to enjoy the satisfaction of trusting, but since the trust was their will liberty is not violated.I believe I understand. You highlight that it is not quite helplessness, but unwilling relinquishment of one's own autonomy that stimulates trauma?
Yes, and this is not unique to rape there is a vast category of injury due solely to violating liberty. Jumping out of a plane and being pushed are two very different things even if you have a parachute in both cases.
Even something as simple as drinking tea could become injurious in the context of deprived liberty.
The fact that rape so often causes trauma as opposed to lesser forms of mental injury is due to the completeness of the attack. One's body is the intrinsic personal property. The situation is often crystal clear and thus so is the disregard of the attacker for one's liberty. Culture feeds into it, but there is no doubt tabula rasa people would take it very personally.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
What do we need to do to get women back to the site?
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@FLRW
You need to transition.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I can't, I have too much testosterone. Remember that I look like Arnold Schwarzenegger.
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@FLRW
What does testosterone have to do with being a woman?
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@FLRW
What do we need to do to get women back to the site?
Perhaps this would be a good forum to create, but for this forum let's stay on topic.
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@Critical-Tim
I suppose you don't believe there is an underlying consistency among all individuals that triggers trauma?
I don't believe there has to be.
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@Athias
I believe there is consistency among all individuals who gain trauma because even if the physical experience that caused the trauma is different for each person the emotional state that caused the trauma will be the same. Perhaps once we understand how trauma is psychologically stimulated, we can deduce which circumstances would induce it.
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@Critical-Tim
Sometimes I believe you're actually an AI learning to be a human in this forum. 😁
Jokes aside, I think the root of a trauma in a rape is the intrusion in the sexual privacy of a person which is almost sacred in every human being. It's not even necessary a penetration to cause a trauma, I think it suffices an inappropiate touching of intimate parts like the vulva or the breasts. This is mostly traumatizing in children that are molested.
So, if you invade without authorization a sacred area of a person like his sexual privacy you will create either a trauma or a deep sense of humilation if it's the case of a raped man or in general of a strong person. The person might not like it, that's not the problem, hookers usually don't like the sex with their clients, what it's important is the permission and confidence to get into your sacred area.
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@IlDiavolo
I suppose the question then is what makes those areas sacred in comparison to any other part of the body. Peterson suggests that they are points of our own vulnerability and we cover ourselves because we do not want to expose our vulnerabilities. Perhaps exposing one's vulnerability to others openly and to the deepest extent is what causes trauma or at least one possible avenue.
If I you use another persons tooth brush to brush your teeth its still benefits your teeth, Why should you care whos tooth brush you use to brush your teeth?