Why is rape traumatizing if sex is fine? (Equal experience, one voluntary, the other not)

Author: Critical-Tim
rape
Trauma
Experience
Divinity
Autonomy

Posts

Total: 64
Topic's author
#1
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
Topic Description:
We will discuss the many perspectives to understand the trauma of rape, assuming sex of equal experience would have been fine.
We are to make the assumption that the hypothetical rape was of equal intensity to their usual sex, and that they have become traumatized by the equal experience.

We will cover the following questions to get started:
Why is it that women can endure sex, but rape of an equal experience is traumatizing?
Is the source of trauma embedded in fully recognizing one's helplessness?
Is the past determined by our perspective, and the same experience if viewed positive or negative will be such an experience?

Please help productively refine my and others' understanding by following these guidelines:
  • NUMBER 1: Please ask questions and only state a dispute with an example to improve my understanding, this forum is intended to educate with an interactive environment.
  • Be open-minded and curious. Do not dismiss or ignore answers that challenge your reality or beliefs. Try to embrace them as opportunities to learn and grow. Try to approach them with logical, critical, and professional minds, and seek to understand the evidence and reasoning behind them.
  • Be empathetic and respectful. Do not judge or ridicule other people’s perspectives or experiences. Try to comprehend their viewpoints and appreciate their contributions to the larger and more intricate reality. Try to see how different perspectives can form a more complex and complete picture of the world.
  • Be honest and responsible. Always prioritize speaking the truth and avoid making definitive claims when uncertain. Use qualifiers like "about," "I saw," "I think," or "I believe" to convey information accurately.
  • Be clear about the source of your knowledge when sharing with others. This fosters a truthful and respectful environment for discussions.
  • Be relevant and on-topic. Do not deviate from the main topic of the forum. Do not post irrelevant or off-topic comments and links that aren't productive to the questions being discussed.
  • Be constructive and creative. Do not simply criticize or reject other people’s ideas. Try to offer positive feedback, suggestions, or alternatives.
  • Be clear and concise. Try to use clear and accurate language as much as possible. To have effective communication it is necessary to speak understandably.







#2
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 352
Posts: 10,367
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
Plenty of involuntary experiences in life.
I think trauma is a choice, since trauma can exist only while you think about said event, and thinking about said event is a choice.

Maybe mental damage isnt a choice, but trauma is.
#3
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,650
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
Much of our day to day happiness relies on the perception of a certain level of security and control of our lives.

Rape takes both of these away.

In a relationship, one thing women naturally look for in a man is stability and security, which is why they typically look for men that can provide. 

When women have a traumatic event with a man, and that event is the polar opposite of stability and security, that enduring memory of rape can make it extremely hard to achieve the perception of security and stability in all future relationships with men.
#4
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,650
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
do you think PTSD is a choice then?
#5
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 352
Posts: 10,367
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Greyparrot
Yes. Thoughts are a choice. People choose to remember and feel bad.

I even managed to develop PTSD from my circumcision by choosing to think about it.
#6
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 352
Posts: 10,367
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Greyparrot
When women have a traumatic event with a man, and that event is the polar opposite of stability and security, that enduring memory of rape can make it extremely hard to achieve the perception of security and stability in all future relationships with men.
Thats because women have brain of a chicken. 

#7
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,650
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Best.Korea
So are you saying memories are a choice? Suppressing memories may be a choice, but it does not always work. Some memories are impossible to suppress because they have made far too many neural connections in the brain. This is noted in Alzheimer's patients who retain very strong and limited memories. It is possible to create a memory by gaslighting yourself, but it is rarely as strongly imprinted on the brain as a traumatic experience where multiple chemicals released in the body provide the catalyst for a very strong memory imprint.
#8
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 352
Posts: 10,367
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Greyparrot
So are you saying memories are a choice?
No. Thoughts are a choice. Otherwise, the rapist has no choice but to rape, since thoughts control actions.

Suppressing memories may be a choice, but it does not always work.
It doesnt work only if you have low IQ and no self control. So yes, for most women it doesnt work.

I discovered that you can simply not think about the bad event, and the trauma goes away.

However, women, in their infinite stupidity, constantly think and talk about their rape.

I actually wrote an entire program with over 200 chapters on suppressing bad memories and depression. One of the key elements, besides certain diet and water drinking habbits, was to apsolutely never think or focus on the bad memory but to move on, forget and do that which makes you happy.

The problem with most people is that they dont know what makes them happy. For example, women often assume that quick pleasure, overeating and candies and meat make them happy, when truth is exactly opposite.

Denying yourself of quick pleasure makes you happy.
Problem solving makes you happy. Setting obstacles for yourself and overcoming them makes you happy.
Not eating but tolerating hunger for some time makes you happy.
Eating only once or twice a day makes you happy. Drinking lots of water at once, about 600 mililiters if you weight 60 kg, makes you happy, although should not be done more than 2 times per day.
Practicing "presence in the moment", where you avoid thinking about things that arent there, and only think and focus on the current environment, your breathing, body, senses...ect. makes you happy.

Its when people choose to think about bad things is when they become depressed and traumatized.

You are supposed to let go of the bad memory, and not hold on to it. The more you hold on to it, the more it will torment you.

I wrote down over 200 things that make people happy and that solve bad memories, and to no great suprise, rape victims do almost completely opposite of my total program and then they feel bad.

So yes, women make lots of mistakes and therapists are of no help since no therapist works with proper program.
#9
Athias
Athias's avatar
Debates: 20
Posts: 3,192
3
3
9
Athias's avatar
Athias
3
3
9
-->
@Critical-Tim
We will cover the following questions to get started:
Why is it that women can endure sex, but rape of an equal experience is traumatizing?
Is the source of trauma embedded in fully recognizing one's helplessness?
Is the past determined by our perspective, and the same experience if viewed positive or negative will be such an experience?
1. Why is it that (a) woman can endure giving gifts, but traumatized when being robbed? Why is that (a) woman can endure selling her labor in the labor market, but traumatized when being enslaved?
2. I would imagine that's part of it.
3. I suppose.
Topic's author
#10
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@Athias
Those are excellent and related questions that reflect the same principle.
Why is a voluntary act fine, but the same act unvoluntary is traumatic?
Additionally, do only women experience this, do they experience it more than men, or do they experience this equally?
Topic's author
#11
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@Best.Korea
Plenty of involuntary experiences in life.
I think trauma is a choice, since trauma can exist only while you think about said event, and thinking about said event is a choice.
Maybe mental damage isn't a choice, but trauma is.
I believe that dwelling on a past event is voluntary, but being reminded of a past event is involuntary. It was Sigmund Freud who believed that our subconscious collects abstract concepts from our surroundings and our past that we ourselves miss and it tries to enlighten us through memories and dreams that it reminds us of involuntarily. It primarily wishes us to learn from our mistakes and once we have fully understood the past it will cease to remind us.

In other words, if you are continually and involuntarily reminded of a past experience, you have not fully understood what needs to be learned, only once you understand what your subconscious desires you to know will it cease to remind you.
Topic's author
#12
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@Greyparrot
When women have a traumatic event with a man, and that event is the polar opposite of stability and security, that enduring memory of rape can make it extremely hard to achieve the perception of security and stability in all future relationships with men.
Do you think that this view of instability and insecurity is presented to them towards only men or humanity in general, or is this different for different individuals?
Topic's author
#13
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@Greyparrot
do you think PTSD is a choice then?
I believe that PTSD is a result of being shown reality when one has remained ignorant and chosen to model the world incorrectly. It is at this moment that they cannot know how the world works because they have voluntarily remained ignorant rather than seeking to understand the world and it is this voluntary action that leads to the potentiality of PTSD.
#14
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@Critical-Tim
Why is a voluntary act fine, but the same act unvoluntary is traumatic?
We all have autonomy, and whether you are male or female, having the control over your autonomy being taken from you is traumatic. 
Rape of a woman = traumatic
Torture of a POW = traumatic
Home invasion = traumatic
Car accident = traumatic

So on and so forth.

Anything that disrupts our internal and external sense of control over our person and the areas we consider safe = trauma. 

Topic's author
#15
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@Best.Korea
It doesn't work only if you have low IQ and no self control. So yes, for most women it doesn't work.
I don't think women have a lower IQ than men, but I do think they are more abstract, while men are more analytical.
In general, women are better at art, while men are better at engineering.

I discovered that you can simply not think about the bad event, and the trauma goes away.
I don't believe that, even if this is possible, it is a good idea. If bad things happen and we forget them, we have learned nothing. This is why our subconscious reminds us in the first place.

However, women, in their infinite stupidity, constantly think and talk about their rape.
I believe they need to express their trauma in order to release what has dwelled within them.
It sometimes is the only way to heal.

I actually wrote an entire program with over 200 chapters on suppressing bad memories and depression. One of the key elements, besides certain diet and water drinking habits, was to absolutely never think or focus on the bad memory but to move on, forget and do that which makes you happy.
I believe happiness is different than meaning, as expressed by Dr. Jordan Peterson, and as I expressed above, I believe the suppression of memories is costly, since one loses the opportunity to prevent it in the future. Instead, they have been exposed to malevolence, and they must bear its existence without knowing when it will strike. This is truly terrifying.

Denying yourself of quick pleasure makes you happy.
Problem solving makes you happy. Setting obstacles for yourself and overcoming them makes you happy.
Not eating but tolerating hunger for some time makes you happy.
Eating only once or twice a day makes you happy. Drinking lots of water at once, about 600 mililiters if you weight 60 kg, makes you happy, although should not be done more than 2 times per day.
Practicing "presence in the moment", where you avoid thinking about things that arent there, and only think and focus on the current environment, your breathing, body, senses...ect. makes you happy.
I believe that meaning is different than happiness, but I do believe meaning is experienced through the pursuit of one's aspirations which are different for many people. One may believe that losing weight is what they truly desire, in which this case would be true, while another cares less about their weight and is only concerned about raising the next generation, so they have a meaning that will surpass their lifespan, in which this case would not be true.

I wrote down over 200 things that make people happy and that solve bad memories, and to no great suprise, rape victims do almost completely opposite of my total program and then they feel bad.

So yes, women make lots of mistakes and therapists are of no help since no therapist works with proper program.
I'd like to hear more about the details of your program. Specifically, the key points, perhaps a simple yet sufficient list of steps with a brief explanation of why. I have done much research in this area and your studies are quite contrary to what I have learned but you seem to be well versed in the topic, so I'm interested in hearing more of your research. Most of my studies have been founded on the research of Jordan Peterson, Carl Young, and Sigmund Freud.
Topic's author
#16
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@TWS1405_2
The trauma surpasses the duration of the experience which means it's not only linked to the experience but something more than that. I think it is linked to a person's recognition that their understanding of the world is insufficient, and they don't know how to prevent the traumatic experience from happening again and something truly horrific that you have no understanding of when it may occur in the future is a monster that lurks in the darkness, and you are sitting helplessly waiting for it to strike. I believe that is what is truly terrifying, not the experience itself.
#17
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@Critical-Tim
Look up the term autonomy, then read a few APA articles on it in relationship to trauma. 
You'll get better answers and learn more that way then instigating purely subjective unsubstantiated nonsensical personal opinions on the matter. 
Adieu 
#18
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 352
Posts: 10,367
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Critical-Tim
My program is not meant to promote some great rational thinking or search for truth. It is just meant to make person happy and remove all depression. Its main strength is that it relies on combination of lots of things that were proven to make people happy, over 200 of different things which need to be practiced to be happy. Yes, I can sum up its points, then you can ask what interests you about it. The program worked well for me, I can even say too well. I cant exactly point out which parts of program were most helpful, but one meal per day, raw food and lots of water at once is how I started and noticed many benefits. Other parts I developed along the way.
#19
Greyparrot
Greyparrot's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 25,650
3
4
10
Greyparrot's avatar
Greyparrot
3
4
10
-->
@Critical-Tim
I believe that PTSD is a result of being shown reality when one has remained ignorant and chosen to model the world incorrectly. It is at this moment that they cannot know how the world works because they have voluntarily remained ignorant rather than seeking to understand the world and it is this voluntary action that leads to the potentiality of PTSD.

Interesting, so PTSD might be a severe form of cognitive dissonance?
#20
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 352
Posts: 10,367
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Critical-Tim
Here are the general points in the program.

1. One meal per day
2. Drinking 700 mililiters of water at once
3. Problem solving, set obstacles for yourself and solve them. Set and solve short tasks.
Tasks can be anything, from learning something new to completing an easy game level. Set small easy but still challenging goals with obstacles and then solve them.
4. Practice gratitude, write down what are you thankful for
5. Breathing exercises, holding breath and proper breathing
6. Exercises
7. Find activities you enjoy
8. Get enough sleep
9. Spend time in nature
10. Meditation - Focus on breath, senses, words, body, environment...
11. Presence in moment, focus on present, on whats there. Avoid thinking about whats not there.
12. Remove sources of stress, or reminders of bad things.
13. Practice memory or memorization. Memorize parts of text from book.
14. Prayer
15. Brainstorming ideas - write down as many solutions as possible for some topic, also as many answers and as many problems that may rise, and as many related things.
16. Writing happy stories, songs and poems
17. Practice to stop thinking any thoughts for few minutes and to lose focus completely.
18. Write down and celebrate achievements
19. Solve different problems every day
20. Avoid losing
21. Avoid long tasks
22. Remember good happy days and recreate them
23. Avoid thinking of negative things. Forget the negative past and future.
24. Solve most interesting problems
25. Take breaks from everything
26. Risk taking
27. Victories
28. Create a schedule and give each activity similar amount of time
29. Bragging and positive supportive self-talk
30. Problem solving in imagination
31. Laughing and jokes
32. Limit exposure to negative news, stories, conversations or thoughts
33. Surround yourself with positive and supporting people
34. Help others in need and share
35. Debate and reason on many topics, but avoid topics you find disturbing
36. Think of many different positive thoughts
37. Have plenty of short small tasks throughout the day
38. Have a sense of closure in each task
39. Positive music and sounds
40. Art, images and charming beautiful scenes
41. Changes in daily activities
42. Eating raw vegetables, fruit, nuts.
43. Get lots of sunlight, light therapy
44. Say prayer over food and water and be thankful for it
45. Be clean
46. Dont live in mess, organize your things
47. Aroma therapy
48. Tasks with pauses between tasks
49. Delaying pleasure and pleasurable activities
50. Denying yourself of almost all pleasure for one day in a week
51. Dont rush to remove difficulties, such as thirst, boredom, hunger or lack of sleep
52. Equal time for all different activities
53. Develop habbits
54. Healing sounds, binaural and isochronic
55. Self-massage and acupressure
56. Bath for a long time in warm water
57. Holding ice cube in hand
58. Resist scratching your skin
59. Cold baths
60. Ideals
61. Love
62. Unity with others, avoid conflicts
63. Apology for mistakes
64. Domination over obstacles (this can even be domimation in easy video games)
65. Effort with results in tasks
66. Balanced diet, variety in food
67. Variety in music
68. Deep breathing with pauses, exhale longer than inhale
69. Journal your positive thoughts and feelings
70. Watch or read something that makes you happy
71. Hugs
72. Forgiveness
73. Challenge negative thoughts and reframe them as positive or replace them with positive thoughts
74. Try many new things and learn new things and skills
75. Practice kindness
76. Dedicate to positive cause and volunteer
77. Share positive feelings
78. Stretching exercises
79. Write down all things you are grateful for
80. Visualization exercises
81. Tea
82. Write down and celebrate personal growth
83. Learn to say no and set boundaries
84. Take on new challenges to stimulate your mind and overcome obstacles you set for yourself
85. Write down positive goals and create plan to achieve them
86. Surround yourself with positive and uplifting photos and quotes.
87. Watch sunset and sunrise
88. Spend time disconnected from the world.
89. Learn yoga or tai chi
90. Prioritize your needs and goals
91. Imagine yourself as someone else
92. Write about things you like in great detail and engage all senses.
93. Expand knowledge
94. Take action every day to complete goal or get closer to goal
95. Remove obstacles of your happiness
96. Practice mental rehearsal of plan and goal
97. Have goal cards, check goal or success map of tasks
98. Imagine your happy place. Engage all senses and imagine you are in the most calming happiest place on Earth. Focus on imagining it.
99. Deal with visualization triggers
100. Imagine success
101. Imagine your positive future self and work towards it
102. Spend time with animals
103. Practice progressive muscle relaxation
104. Practice mantra - focus on one word, image, sound.
105. Assert yourself
106. Learning and showing interest
107. Spend time near water
108. Engage in social activities
109. Empty your mind meditation
110. Engage in outdoor activities
111. Attend religious services
112. Practice mindfulness while doing everyday activities. Focus on present moment, not past or future or anything that is not there right now. Dont let your mind wander. Avoid judging present activities.
113. Avoid imagining negative things
114. Do religious rituals
115. Rub cold water on face and neck
116. Have admiration for someone or something positive
117. Think of victories and dominations over obstacles
118. Let go of unrealistic and difficult goals
119. Let go of defeats
120. Persistence in mood improving activities
121. Reframe every situation as positive
122. Dont imagine what you cant have
123. Focus on and solve problems about what interests you
124. Break tasks into smaller tasks
125. Avoid things that distract you to negative thoughts
126. Let go of perfectionism and accept imperfections
127. Dont hate
128. Use a weighted blanket
129. Avoid caffeine, sugar and alcohol
130. Take a nap
131. Practice being supportive and helpful
132. Support and cheer for winners
133. Debate on an easy to win side of topics
134. Be that what you want to see in the world
135. Do many different kinds of activities and tasks throughout the day
136. Wish others well
137. Rejoicing for other's happiness
138. Praising others
139. Spiritual activities
140. When meditating, focus on one thing or multiple things currently around you or on your body, senses, breathing and movements
141. Imagine heaven or happy calm things
142. Listen to storm
143. Dont think about what isnt there
144. Counting
145. Let the negative go away. Dont hold on to it.
146. Stare at flame, fire or candle.
Topic's author
#21
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@TWS1405_2
Speaking of subjective, nonsensical is such a word. Regardless, I'm on this forum to learn. If you believe contrary to what I say, then you have the right to post articles that prove me wrong. If I wanted to learn all the answers myself I would, but I'm here instead. I have researched substantially in every topic that I bring forward for discussion. I'm hoping that you and others could present to me something that I could not research which is personal and individual opinions and perspectives that perhaps I had not considered.
Topic's author
#22
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@Greyparrot
Interesting, so PTSD might be a severe form of cognitive dissonance?
As far as I can tell, not cognitive dissonance, but living in ignorance when the world comes crashing down and indisputably shows them how dreadfully wrong they are. Leading up to the point, they have chosen not to understand the world for what it is, but instead rationalize and compartmentalize different aspects of the world to fit their hypothetical happy place. Then when the world indisputably shatters that understanding and foundation of belief, they cannot trust themselves to understand the world anymore and everything to them becomes unknown, including the dangers of the world. Not knowing where the dangers are or who the enemy is is what I believe is truly traumatic.

Of course, it's open to discussion. I am not set in stone on this matter, but that is why I am discussing it with you all.
#23
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@Critical-Tim
-->
@<<<TWS1405_2>>>
Speaking of subjective, nonsensical is such a word. Regardless, I'm on this forum to learn. If you believe contrary to what I say, then you have the right to post articles that prove me wrong. If I wanted to learn all the answers myself I would, but I'm here instead. I have researched substantially in every topic that I bring forward for discussion. I'm hoping that you and others could present to me something that I could not research which is personal and individual opinions and perspectives that perhaps I had not considered.
Are you being obtuse on purpose or are you really that dense!?!

I provided you with a direct, affirmed, logical, and well supported answer to your query with the underlining question of this thread. You ignored it. Gave me some word salad response. Gave you another clue/hint to find answers far more legit than anonymous individuals on an online debate forum, and you scoff at me with sophomoric banality. 

The only nonsensical banter here is coming from one source, you. This threaded topic is asinine. It's egotistical. It's misogynistic. 

Only a truly curious person wanting to discover the truth would do their own personal research, first, before coming to a place like this. 
If you really wanted legit discussion, you would have engaged in the DEBATE side of this forum. Not within the forum. 

It is clear that you have interests in the realm of psychology, but your efforts are amateurish and rudimentary. 
You have a long way to go. 

Yes, I have an academic background in psychology. So, I see where you "think" you are going with this, but you're off on the wrong foot. 

If you are truly here to learn, then grow up and accept the constructive criticism. Don't be a dick about it. 
Topic's author
#24
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@Best.Korea
That is quite an extensive list. Do you notice any consistencies or patterns in the instructions that could capture the essence of the larger picture being painted by these elements? As far as I can tell they act towards managing depression by taking care of your body and mind through proper nutrition, exercise, and rest, while also nurturing a positive mindset. Actively engage your mind in activities you enjoy to distract from dwelling on negative thoughts, foster social connections, and practice mindfulness.
Topic's author
#25
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@TWS1405_2
I apologize if I came across as misogynistic; One of my questions is whether this characteristic is only of women or if men also share it, so I do not mean to be.

Additionally, I have posted in my AboutMe on why I believe the debate side of the website is not beneficial for discovering truth, since people become attached to their position and afraid of losing their points. Therefore, in my pursuit of truth, I desire to discuss on the forums.
Topic's author
#26
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@TWS1405_2
I'm currently researching what you suggested just so that way I can become more familiarized with your stance. However, I am aware many animals can become traumatized and failed to thrive because of an emotional event that occurred to them. Assuming we do not consider these animals autonomous, I hardly believe there is an association. Nonetheless, I am considering it.
Topic's author
#27
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@TWS1405_2
Some of the animals that have been studied for failure to thrive due to trauma include:
  • Snowshoe hares: These animals experience chronic stress from living surrounded by predators, which causes them to eat less and bear fewer babies. The trauma of living through repeated predator chases triggers lasting changes in their brain chemistry that parallel those seen in the brains of traumatized people.
  • Chimpanzees: These animals suffer from the loss of their family members, injuries, and isolation due to human activities such as poaching, hunting, and habitat destruction. They show signs of post-traumatic stress disorder, such as agitation, anger, fear, and insomnia.
  • Elephants: These animals are affected by historical and cultural traumas, such as the ivory trade, culling, and war. They exhibit symptoms of depression, anxiety, aggression, and flashbacks. They also transmit their trauma across generations through social learning and possibly genetic mechanisms.
Cited by the following sources:
#28
TWS1405_2
TWS1405_2's avatar
Debates: 4
Posts: 2,186
3
3
7
TWS1405_2's avatar
TWS1405_2
3
3
7
-->
@Critical-Tim
I'm currently researching what you suggested just so that way I can become more familiarized with your stance. However, I am aware many animals can become traumatized and failed to thrive because of an emotional event that occurred to them. Assuming we do not consider these animals autonomous, I hardly believe there is an association. Nonetheless, I am considering it.
Please do not bring animals into this. That's as asinine as the alphabet (LGBTQIAS+-) claiming their lifestyle choice is okay because "animals" do it too. Totally idiotic and nonsensical. 

Topic's author
#29
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@TWS1405_2
By no means am I trying to be one sided, I'm here with the intent of hearing others perspectives and considering their validity with the experience I have obtained.
Please understand it is a positive characteristic not to accept anyone's word on a dime. I am quite skeptical and need to thoroughly consider my options before making a decision. As of yet, my understanding seems to be the most reasonable to me, but of course, that is why I'm discussing it with you, because I'm interested in hearing.

Here are my results from your search from APA about the relationship of autonomy and trauma:
  • Autonomy is the ability to act in accordance with one’s own values, preferences, and goals. It is an important aspect of psychological well-being and resilience.
  • Trauma is an emotional response to a terrible event that can cause various symptoms such as unpredictable emotions, flashbacks, strained relationships, and physical problems. Trauma can also impair one’s sense of autonomy and agency.
  • Trauma-informed care is an approach that recognizes the impact of trauma on people’s lives and helps them heal in a safe and respectful way. It involves understanding the signs and symptoms of trauma, creating a trusting and supportive environment, and empowering people to make choices and have control over their recovery.
  • Autonomy restoration is the process of regaining one’s sense of autonomy after a traumatic event. It can involve re-establishing personal boundaries, expressing one’s needs and preferences, making decisions, taking actions, and pursuing meaningful goals.
  • Autonomy restoration can enhance one’s psychological well-being, coping skills, self-esteem, and post-traumatic growth. It can also reduce the risk of developing post-traumatic stress disorder, depression, anxiety, and other mental health problems.
Cited by the following:

Topic's author
#30
Critical-Tim
Critical-Tim's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 902
3
2
7
Critical-Tim's avatar
Critical-Tim
3
2
7
-->
@TWS1405_2
I never claimed that any nontraditional gender identities were or were not sensical. You associated trauma with autonomy, and I wanted to express how animals can be traumatized as well because I thought it would be helpful for our discussion. Do you not believe this is sufficient to consider that trauma is not associated with autonomy assuming that we believe animals are not autonomous and yet have sufficiently been documented to have trauma?