How Do You Know When The Devil's Playing Tricks?

Author: MagicAintReal

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#61
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@disgusted

I would say your tone was insulting for those who revere God
Not only is your tone insulting but most of what you write is to the billions who don't revere your particular god, just one of many.
Image, meet mirror!
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@PGA2.0
I don't have a god, you are always wrong.
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@disgusted
I don't have a god, you are always wrong.
The mirror is for the first part of your statement. You continually make ad hom statements.

I.e., 

"Not only is your tone insulting but most of what you write is."

Now, what do you see in the mirror?

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You being a hypocrite. Me being honest. You're wrong as usual.
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@MagicAintReal
Yes, this is exactly what I was trying to get to with my questions...I'm here to learn too, what does Matt 12:22-28 say on the matter?
It says that a house divided against itself cannot stand and that Satan (the devil) is not going to do anything in opposition to his own house (i.e. cast out demons).

So if good things are happening, it can't be the devil?
Nah.

Well, if it's the case that the devil will not partake in anything that goes against his house, how do you know everything in his house?
We don't know everything in his house. We do, however, have a very solid grasp of his nature. And encouraging Christians to live a life free of sin and reliant on God is as contrary to his nature as you can get.

HAHAHAH awesome.
If Valdemort were wont to be transsexual and behaved regularly in the 12th dimension then this analogy would hold.
However, the devil is known to play tricks, known to try to deceive people, and known to be very powerful, so wouldn't it be well within his house to deceive people with a book? 
The dark lord is no stranger to tricks and deception himself. Who is to say this Tom Riddle stuff wasn't just a clever ruse to hide his real secret? Perhaps that's the real reason he's so obsessed with Mr. Potter! Hell, maybe he's in love with him! Would explain all of the creepy fanfics on the subject . . . *yikes*
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#66
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@Logical-Master
The dark lord is no stranger to tricks and deception himself.
So would you say that powerful tricks and powerful deception are in the devil's house?
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@MagicAintReal
Yes.
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@Logical-Master
Then, would using this powerful trickery and powerful deception to write the bible be something in the devil's house?
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@MagicAintReal
No.
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@Logical-Master
I asked:
Then, would using this powerful trickery and powerful deception to write the bible be something in the devil's house?

No.
Why not?

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@MagicAintReal
We don't know everything in his house. We do, however, have a very solid grasp of his nature. And encouraging Christians to live a life free of sin and reliant on God is as contrary to his nature as you can get.

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@Logical-Master
We don't know everything in his house.
So, if you agree that deception and trickery are of the devil's house AND that you don't know everything in his house, couldn't the deception to write the bible be in his house and you not know about it?


We do, however, have a very solid grasp of his nature. 
Right, which you admitted that powerful deception and powerful trickery were part of his nature.
So, if it's part of his nature to deceive, why is writing the bible to deceive out of the question?
If we've grasped that his nature is capable of such deception, why can't he use it to write the bible?

And encouraging Christians to live a life free of sin and reliant on God is as contrary to his nature as you can get.
Yes, but if it's the case that the devil used the powerful deception from his house and wrote the bible, the "sins" christians are avoiding are actually virtues that the devil is trying to get christians to avoid and what are thought of as virtues are the devil's deceptive sins powerfully disguised.
No?
Why/why not?

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@MagicAintReal
Which brings us right back to our conversation about Harry Potter, the Matrix, any work of fiction you'd like to substitute or brains in jars if you'd like to get some Descartes up in here! We can take your logic and apply it to anything.
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@Logical-Master
I'll try this in a different way, given your name.

P1 The devil has powerful tricks and deception in his house (agreed by you).
P2 Deceptively writing a regarded holy book is a powerful deception.
C1 It is possible that deceptively writing a regarded holy book is in the devil's house.

I had asked:
Would using this powerful trickery and powerful deception to write the bible be something in the devil's house?

No.
Can you marry C1 and this response together?

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@Logical-Master
I don't know why LM doesn't just say 'If the devil wrote the Bible to fool me, then he succeeded.'  Clearly LM thinks it a risk worth taking and I agree with him - the chances the devil wrote the bible are indeed effectively zero.
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@keithprosser
I agree with him - the chances the devil wrote the bible are indeed effectively zero.
The devil's fooled you too apparently.
He's powerfully deceptive after all.
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@MagicAintReal

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@keithprosser
Look if Kevin Spacey doesn't prove my point, what will?
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@MagicAintReal
The devil might exist.

He's got his own show on bbc radio.  (the devil, not spacey).



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@keithprosser
Now I'm convinced the devil exists too, this was excellent evidence.
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@MagicAintReal
If this were court, you'd here somebody say objection asked and answered right about now.

Can you marry C1 and this response together?
Yes. I see no indication of the devil having wrote the Bible. Just as I see no indication that we live in the Matrix, that Voldemort is Harry Potter's twin transsexual counterpart from the 12th dimension or that I am simply a brain in an empty vat.




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@keithprosser
I don't know why LM doesn't just say 'If the devil wrote the Bible to fool me, then he succeeded.'  Clearly LM thinks it a risk worth taking and I agree with him - the chances the devil wrote the bible are indeed effectively zero.
^Straight to the point, but this is the general gists of what I was getting at with the Matrix/Harry Potter example (reductio ad absurdum aside). No sane person spends their life worrying about every single remote possibility out there. It's possible the devil wrote the Bible and also possible that the moon is chocked full of spare ribs!

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@Logical-Master
Yes. I see no indication of the devil having wrote the Bible.
So, you don't think that using the devil's powerful deception, which you've admitted is in his house, to write the bible is possible because you don't see any indication of it.
You don't see any indication, therefore it's not possible.
Personal incredulity?

that Voldemort is Harry Potter's twin transsexual counterpart from the 12th dimension or that I am simply a brain in an empty vat. 
Is being Harry Potter's twin transsexual in Valdemort's house?
Is being in the 12th dimension in Valdemort's house?
Answer this.
If it's no, your analogy blows donkeys and doesn't address deception being in the devil's house, does it?

Why can't a bible deception be in the house of the devil, you've yet to respond to this.
Your matrix and harry potter analogies are flawed.
Respond to how you know, without personal incredulity that the deception through bible writing is not in the devil's house, but deception in general is.
Yay.


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@MagicAintReal
You don't see any indication, therefore it's not possible.
Straw-man fallacy.

Is being Harry Potter's twin transsexual in Valdemort's house?
Is being in the 12th dimension in Valdemort's house?
Voldemort is duplicitous, obsessed with Harry Potter and is an other worldly being. If I'm to go by your logic, these possibilities are fair game.

Why can't a bible deception be in the house of the devil, you've yet to respond to this.
Have answered it multiple times. As the judge would put it, move along counsel!

Respond to how you know, without personal incredulity that the deception through bible writing is not in the devil's house, but deception in general is.
Same way you know, without personal incredulity that the limitations of the human mind is not cause to believe nor even consider that we're in the Matrix.
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@Logical-Master
Voldemort is duplicitous, obsessed with Harry Potter and is an other worldly being. If I'm to go by your logic, these possibilities are fair game.
So, in Voldemort's house is being a transsexual twin of harry potter there, yes or no?

I asked:
Why can't a bible deception be in the house of the devil, you've yet to respond to this.

Have answered it multiple times. As the judge would put it, move along counsel!
No, you said you see no indication, but you've already admitted to POWERFUL deception in the devil's house, and rather than actually telling me how you know that deception writing the bible isn't in the devil's house, you've referenced harry potter and the matrix, none of which go to any length to show how you know it's impossible for writing the bible being in the devil's house.

Answer directly, not with shitty analogies, but directly, why is it impossible for deception via bible writing to be in the devil's house...we've not moved on council, we've not yet begun.

Same way you know, without personal incredulity that the limitations of the human mind is not cause to believe nor even consider that we're in the Matrix.
Except I'm not claiming I understand the Matrix's house.
You are claiming that deception is possible in the devil's house but bible deception is not...your reason so far has only been that you see no indication of it, am I correct here?

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@MagicAintReal
So, in Voldemort's house is being a transsexual twin of harry potter there, yes or no?
Show me the passage where "writing the Bible" is in the devil's house. Failure to do this will result in the end of this conversation.

Why can't a bible deception be in the house of the devil, you've yet to respond to this.
Nope, have answered it. Find someone who thinks I haven't answered (multiple times at that) and I'll happily address them. =)

Answer directly, not with shitty analogies.
Sounds like an opinion. Prove they're shitty. Then we'll take it from there. =)

Except I'm not claiming I understand the Matrix's house.
Oh? Do you believe we're in the Matrix?
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@Logical-Master
Show me the passage where "writing the Bible" is in the devil's house. Failure to do this will result in the end of this conversation.
I'm not the one claiming to know what the bible says, you told me about the whole house thing anyway...remember?
I'm asking you, what in the bible indicates to you that bible deception is not in the devil's house?

Here are literally all of your responses:

Q. Is there bible-writing-deception in the devil's house given known powerful deception being part of the devil's nature?
A. "No"

At this point you hadn't bothered to explain this or anything, just, plain unsubstantiated no.

Q. Why not?
A. We don't know everything in his house. Encouraging Christians to live a life free of sin and reliant on God is as contrary to his nature as you can get.

Q. Couldn't the devil be deceiving you with this idea of what is contrary to the devil, especially since you don't know everything in his house?
A. Harry Potter/Matrix.

Notice here, instead of pointing to bible evidence or something of equal analogy like if there were an "official" book that explains what's in Harry Potter's or the Matrix's houses, you point to irrelevant stories to the one about the devil.
Why not just use actual evidence?

Q. How do you marry logic and your response?
A. I see no indication of the devil having wrote the Bible. 

So this is where we are, you've yet to point to any evidence except you see no indication.
You got anything to substantiate how you know, given that you don't know all of the things in the devil's house, bible deception is not something in the devil's house, but deception in general is?

Sounds like an opinion. Prove they're shitty. Then we'll take it from there. =)
They are not analogous because there's no authority book claiming that there are houses of particular characters.
You keep pointing to characters who are simply unlike the devil and don't have some book claiming that they have houses for things to be a part of.
It seems reasonable to conclude that if we don't know all of the devil's house, but we do know that deception and trickery are certainly there, it would make sense if the devil was being deceptive by writing the bible to cause the most deception. 

I had said:
Except I'm not claiming I understand the Matrix's house.

Oh? Do you believe we're in the Matrix?
I don't understand enough about the matrix to make a determination, I don't claim to know anything about the matrix other than it's a fictional movie.

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@MagicAintReal
I'm not the one claiming to know what the bible says
Go read the Bible . Find a passage that supports "the devil wrote the Bible." Give me a reason to consider that notion beyond "it's possible because the devil is really sneaky!" Do it in the next post. =)

Here are literally all of your responses:
No indication, against the devil's nature per scripture, reductio ad absurdum. Your response: *ignore the answer and repeat/rephrase the question ad infinitum*

Notice here, instead of pointing to bible evidence
You've been given bible evidence by multiple people in this thread and your response has basically been "how do we know the bible evidence isn't part of the trick as well?" hahahaha, it's a lame argument. I never simply said "Harry Potter/Matrix", but that more than suffices. =) 

They are not analogous because there's no authority book claiming that there are houses of particular characters.
C'mon man, I don't mind the sophistry, but at least make it interesting. You can do better than that.  You're asking us how we  know the devil isn't deceiving us. When given reasons, you ask how we know the devil didn't plant those reasons to keep the deception going. By that token, you can question anything. Be it us living in the Matrix or be it you being on an extended acid trip revolving around the devil playing 4D chess. Doesn't matter whether an "authority book" is involved. We're talking about entertaining possibilities that have zero support and contradicted by all other evidence. Pure and simple. If you want to play the sophist game correctly, go find a Bible passage you think you can spin the context on enough to make the argument you're trying to make. I could at least have some fun with that. But this "I'm not the one claiming to know what the Bible says", "the Matrix is not a good analogy since it's not a book!" or "I don't understand the Matrix enough to determine whether it exist" is just plain lazy.

I don't understand enough about the matrix to make a determination
Sounds like you need to be more worried about Agent Smith kicking your ass than you do about Christians thinking the devil didn't write the Bible. :P
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@Logical-Master
Find a passage that supports "the devil wrote the Bible." 
I don't need to I have your concession.
You've already answered these two questions.

1. Is deception and trickery in the devils house?
Yes.

2. Is deceptively writing a holy book in the category of deception and trickery?
Yes.

If we're talking about the POSSIBILITY of there being a deceptive trick in the Devil's house, you have to admit that at least the writing of the bible, being that it's a deceptive trick, is POSSIBLE to exist in the devil's house.

If it's the case that the Matrix is in fact a real thing and deceiving humans' life is in the house of the matrix, then yeah it's possible we live in the matrix.
If it's the case that Valdemort being transsexual and a twin of harry potter is in Valdemort's house, then it is possible he is a transsexual twin.

Why is this type of deception just not POSSIBLE in the devil's house?
This is where you've dodged.
C'mon man, just be honest here.
#90
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@MagicAintReal
'Possible' is an awkard word!  It's possible I will win the Men's singles at Wimbledon next year - but is it a possibility worth considering?
 
I don't know when it's ok to say 'impossible' instead of 'very improbable'.  After the Headingly test match in 1981 (500 to 1) and Leicester winning the Premiership (5000 to 1) I wonder of anything is 'impossible'.