What's the strongest argument for atheism?

Author: Fallaneze

Posts

Total: 590
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@3RU7AL
Energy is a form.

Dark matter is formless.

dark matter is nearly but not completely undetectable

the form that we are able to detect is rather like a large blob, based on its gravitational signature
The form of dark mattter is blobular LOL.

Hilarious.
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@Greyparrot
Energy is a form.
What is the form that kinetic energy takes?  How about heat?  What form is gravity?

Dark matter is formless.
Nope, turns out it has a blob form LOL.
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@3RU7AL
there is no such thing as form without matter

there is no such thing as matter without form
So you are making a claim that matter exists.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim, prove the existence of matter.
Owen_T
Owen_T's avatar
Debates: 30
Posts: 590
3
2
9
Owen_T's avatar
Owen_T
3
2
9
-->
@Fallaneze
I myself am religious, but my best argument for atheism is that science is always progressing, and therefore the unknown about the universe may soon be known and explained by science. 
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,803
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
God made man @ disgusted 
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,803
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@TwoMan
Weak argument. The weakest of all.
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,803
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@Owen_T
There's no strong or strongest argument for atheism. Atheism is another religion.
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,803
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@sadolite
Atheism has no strong or strongest argument at all.
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,803
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@FLRW
There's no strongest argument for atheism at all.
Best.Korea
Best.Korea's avatar
Debates: 357
Posts: 10,600
4
6
10
Best.Korea's avatar
Best.Korea
4
6
10
-->
@Mall
Atheism is another religion
Yeah, I see atheist churches all over the place. Oh wait, I dont.


3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Sidewalker
What is the form of an electron, is it in the form of a particle or a wave?

an electron exhibits both particle and wave properties, a concept known as wave-particle duality

an electron has mass

"particle" is a form

"wave" is a form
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Owen_T
I myself am religious, but my best argument for atheism is that science is always progressing, and therefore the unknown about the universe may soon be known and explained by science.

this is likely true

but it doesn't have anything to do with ATHEISM (which is simply, NOT-THEISM)
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Sidewalker
So you are making a claim that matter exists.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim, prove the existence of matter.
the keyboard you are typing on qualifies as undeniable and conclusive proof
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@MAV99
That is why I do not adhere to the philosophy that only things that are observable can be known with certitude.

only what is logically-necessary can be "known with certitude"
MAV99
MAV99's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 235
1
2
6
MAV99's avatar
MAV99
1
2
6
-->
@3RU7AL
only what is logically-necessary can be "known with certitude"
I do not find that intellectually honest. Why cant I have certitude about a perfectly logical and consistent argument?

But if that is the philosophy you adhere to, fine! I dont think it answers all questions and it certainly limits knowledge.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@MAV99
But if that is the philosophy you adhere to, fine! I dont think it answers all questions and it certainly limits knowledge.

of course very few claims are PROVABLY-TRUE

and very few claims are PROVABLY-FALSE


everything else is some level of speculation
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@MAV99
I do not find that intellectually honest. Why cant I have certitude about a perfectly logical and consistent argument?

dubito, ergo cogito, ergo sum
Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@3RU7AL
So you are making a claim that matter exists.

The burden of proof is on the one making the claim, prove the existence of matter.
the keyboard you are typing on qualifies as undeniable and conclusive proof
Restating your faith-based assumption and saying it qualifies as undeniable and conclusive proof of your faith-based assumption isn't a proof by any stretch of the imagination. Besides just proclaiming that your faith qualifies as proof, do you actually have an argument?




Sidewalker
Sidewalker's avatar
Debates: 8
Posts: 2,669
3
2
5
Sidewalker's avatar
Sidewalker
3
2
5
-->
@3RU7AL
What is the form of an electron, is it in the form of a particle or a wave?

an electron exhibits both particle and wave properties, a concept known as wave-particle duality
You said you were a monist, you supposedly don't believe in duality. 

an electron has mass
And a photon doesn't, so what.
"particle" is a form

"wave" is a form
Particle and wave are mutually exclusive forms.

Temporally speaking, a wavehas a periodicity, and spatially, it is spread out in space, a particle cannothave a periodicity, nor can it be spread out in space. A particle has adiscrete location in time and space, a wave does not, a wave spread out over alarger region of space and time. A wave has amplitude and a frequency, itexhibits the phenomena of diffraction and diffusion, a particle does not. 


FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,590
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Mall

So you must think Math is a religion.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Sidewalker
the keyboard you are typing on qualifies as undeniable and conclusive proof
Restating your faith-based assumption and saying it qualifies as undeniable and conclusive proof of your faith-based assumption isn't a proof by any stretch of the imagination. Besides just proclaiming that your faith qualifies as proof, do you actually have an argument?

now you're the one pretending your own keyboard doesn't exist

is this really where you wanted to go with this ?

how the hell did you even type a response ?
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Sidewalker
You said you were a monist, you supposedly don't believe in duality. 
waves and particles can interact

which proves they are not fundamentally dissimilar
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Sidewalker
Particle and wave are mutually exclusive forms.

Temporally speaking, a wavehas a periodicity, and spatially, it is spread out in space, a particle cannothave a periodicity, nor can it be spread out in space. A particle has adiscrete location in time and space, a wave does not, a wave spread out over alarger region of space and time. A wave has amplitude and a frequency, itexhibits the phenomena of diffraction and diffusion, a particle does not. 

water

ice

steam

are three forms of the same material


nobody ever suggested that forms are immutable
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@FLRW
So you must think Math is a religion.
apparently they also think believing in keyboards is a religion
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,803
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@FLRW
Do atheists believe the God in what's called the bible does not exist?
FLRW
FLRW's avatar
Debates: 0
Posts: 6,590
3
4
8
FLRW's avatar
FLRW
3
4
8
-->
@Mall
Actually, atheists know that the God in what's called the bible does not exist.
Albert Einstein who is a lot smarter than Pastor Jim Bakker said,  "The word God is for me nothing but the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of venerable but still rather primitive legends.
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@Mall
Do atheists believe the God in what's called the bible does not exist?
ATHEISM makes no claim other than "NOT A THEIST"

in the same way a NON-MUSLIM is "NOT A MUSLIM"

in the same way a NON-HINDU is "NOT A HINDU"

in the same way a NON-ASTRONAUT is "NOT AN ASTRONAUT"

in the same way a NON-STAMP-COLLECTOR is "NOT A STAMP COLLECTOR"
3RU7AL
3RU7AL's avatar
Debates: 3
Posts: 14,582
3
4
9
3RU7AL's avatar
3RU7AL
3
4
9
-->
@FLRW
Actually, atheists know that the God in what's called the bible does not exist.
some make negative claims

and some do not

it is not a requirement for an ATHEIST to profess a specific "disbelief" in any particular god or even gods in general

an ATHEIST is simply, NOT-A-THEIST
zedvictor4
zedvictor4's avatar
Debates: 22
Posts: 12,062
3
3
6
zedvictor4's avatar
zedvictor4
3
3
6
-->
@Mall
This atheist simply has no idea how the universe came about.

Within that context, the compilation of the biblical mythology is a very recent man made construct.

Constructed by men who simply had no idea how the universe came about.

In fact they had very little idea what constituted a universe.

Why on earth would I believe and devote effort to, such a naive hypothesis?


When an Omni-one eventually  returns from their universal travels, we will then be reasonably certain of an advanced  intelligence.

In the meantime, belief is a futile exercise.
Mall
Mall's avatar
Debates: 396
Posts: 1,803
4
4
4
Mall's avatar
Mall
4
4
4
-->
@3RU7AL
Atheists believe that God doesn't exist.

If they didn't believe that, they wouldn't be atheists.

Hope you get that.