No matter if you are pro-choice or pro-life, you're going to have to bite the bullet

Author: TheUnderdog

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Double_R
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@TheUnderdog
Taxation is not theft. They're categorically different things.
It’s legalized theft.
No, it's not

No, RTL is specifically about abortion. The only thing it stands against is BA.

FA is an entirely sperate issue.
It’s not.
Yes, it is
Athias
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@Greyparrot
You're on the right track. My prevailing argument is a contention against those who argue that abortion isn't murder because the zygote/embryo/fetus is NOT a "person"--this obviously extends beyond the concept of "legal personhood,"--while simultaneously sustaining that a lake should be. Since persona ficta is a mere subject of legislation, then the content which legitimizes the exclusion of human beings at the first phase of their development must be "personal preference." In other words, there's no consistency in including lakes among legal persons and excluding zygotes/embryos/fetuses.
Greyparrot
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@Athias
 In other words, there's no consistency in including lakes among legal persons and excluding zygotes/embryos/fetuses.

Oh I get it now. Functionally speaking, the same legal protections are given to non-persons as are to persons, so the distinction between the two is irrelevant when discussing legal protections.
Athias
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@Greyparrot
Oh I get it now. Functionally speaking, the same legal protections are given to non-persons as are to persons, so the distinction between the two is irrelevant when discussing legal protections.
Yes, exactly.

ebuc
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@Greyparrot
Pregnant women have no legal protection from virtual rapists. Sad :--( case similar to Taliban attempting to dominate are women ergo, pregnant women. Sic
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@ebuc
Damn those virtual lake rapers.
TheUnderdog
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@TWS1405_2
You need that 3rd variable in there to kinda see which value outweighs the other value in a certain context.  People with the abortion debate can (without biting the bullet) believe RTL>BA or BA>RTL.  You need FA in there to see what prevails.
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@secularmerlin
 It is absolutely possible to believe both on personal property and bodily autonomy. 
Oh, ABSOLUTELY!  But the issue is when FA and BA are competing for prevalence, which one prevails.
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@<<<TWS1405_2>>>
You need that 3rd variable in there to kinda see which value outweighs the other value in a certain context.  People with the abortion debate can (without biting the bullet) believe RTL>BA or BA>RTL.  You need FA in there to see what prevails.
Doubling, tripling down on a fallacy will not make any true.

Abortion is an either or, there is no 3rd variable/option. Period. Fact. Period.
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@TheUnderdog


If your pro life, you believe that the right to life outweighs the right to bodily autonomy (not in ALL cases, but in the specific case of what a parent has to provide their child).

Consider the following scenario: Lets say your a parent with 2 working kidneys and your 8 year old son needs a kidney transplant to survive.  Pretty much any parent that isn't a deadbeat would agree to give their child a kidney.  However, should you as a parent be OBLIGATED to give your kidney to save the life of your 8 year old son (when everyone believes an 8 year old son is at least as valuable as a fetus, and I also think everyone would agree that giving your kidney to save a life is less of a sacrifice than to be pregnant for 9 months to save a life)?  If you believe a parent must do whatever is needed to save their child's life under the pro life ethic, you would have to answer yes to that question.
I don't necessarily think think that the right to life outweighs the right to bodily autonomy, I just believe that committing an act of murder is inherently wrong and punishable. 

I would argue that you can still be pro-life and believe that the parent in this scenario has the right to refuse to donate their kidney. This is because this analogy is better used in a life support argument. Pro-lifers believe that abortion is immoral because when an abortion is performed, the direct cause of death of the zygote/blastocyst/embryo/foetus is the abortion itself and not any other outside factor, since the womb is the natural habitat for the zygote/blastocyst/embryo/foetus and it does not have any underlying medical condition which has caused it to be placed in the womb as a kind of "life support". 

However, in this scenario, the eight-year-old has a kidney problem that has placed him in a condition in which he needs to rely on a part of someone else's body to live. But the fundamental difference between the cause of death in his case, and an abortion, is how that life ended and who caused it to end. If you are the parent and you refuse to donate a kidney, the child will die because of the kidney problem which caused him to be placed in this situation in the first place. The death process is allowed to continue. In an abortion, the zygote/blastocyst/embryo/foetus will die because of the abortion itself, so the death process is initiated. 

However, if you are the parent and you refuse to donate the kidney because you hate your child and wish them harm, then I believe you could be punishable under law for some type of murder.