I want to challenge any claim of contradiction in the Bible. Now I might take a while to answer some of them. I presume I will probably need to do research on some of the questions that come up, but nonetheless I will try to answer them, one way or another.
Name one.
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@YouFound_Lxam
I'd prefer for this to be a Rated Debate.
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@Sir.Lancelot
If anyone brings out a pretty good contradiction that I have a hard time with, then I would consider doing that, however, I would like this to be an open discussion for the time being.
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@YouFound_Lxam
If Cain was Number 3.
Who did he procreate with when he was banished to Nod.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Are you asking for contradictions within the Bible? Or contradiction to common knowledge?
I mean of course the major contradiction within the Bible would be that it’s a mortal sin to change gods word, when there are 33,000 differences between different bibles. If you’re asking for a contradiction in the form of the Bible contradicting itself within the same texts then there are a couple examples.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8
“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5
“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5
with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26
“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19
“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19
Just two examples. Now I’m sure you’re going to do what all Christian’s have to do to make the Bible make sense. You’re going to begin bending the meaning of words and passages in the name of interpretation or metaphor. The real problem I have with the Bible and religion in general, is that if you can’t take words literally then they have no special meaning. Sure you can extract meaningful life lessons from the Bible, but you can do that with almost every work of fiction. Breaking bad can help you extract that hubris and ego will cause your downfall. The odyssey by homer can show you the same thing.
Now if you’re talking about contradictions to common knowledge you can point to Job 38:14 that says “the earth takes the shape of clay underneath a seal…” what other shape does clay underneath a seal take besides flat with bumps protruding out of it? you can also refer to the many times that the Bible calls the earth a circle. And never refers to it as three dimensional.
How do you plan on resolving contradictions?
Are you ceding explanatory authority to any particular source? Are you applying your own personal common sense? Are you looking for a plausible understanding or an actual explanation?
There are a lot of underlying issues here.
Albert Einstein says: “The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.”
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@zedvictor4
If Cain was Number 3.Who did he procreate with when he was banished to Nod.
this can be dismissed with the goddidit fallacy. 🤣
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@zedvictor4
If Cain was Number 3.Who did he procreate with when he was banished to Nod.
Not a contradiction, but more or less just a question. He most likely married a daughter of Adam.
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@Mps1213
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.” — Exodus 20:8“One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” — Romans 14:5
The first verse is in the Old Testament, before Jesus came down, and died for everyone's past, present, and future sins. Therefore, there were more physical everyday life rules that God enforced, like sacrificing a lamb to cover one's sins, and keeping the Sabbath Day holy.
The second takes place in the New Testamate, after Jesus has died. This means that certain things that Jews, had to do in order to account for their sins, and certain rules did not need to be followed (In order to obtain heaven). That doesn't mean we shouldn't still obey some of these respectful rules, but it does mean that the Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice. The lamb that was slain for everyone's sins.
with God all things are possible.” — Matthew 19:26“…The LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.” — Judges 1:19
With, God all things are possible, but it doesn't mean that he will always do everything for you.
The real problem I have with the Bible and religion in general, is that if you can’t take words literally then they have no special meaning.
Words have different meanings for different situations. Language is complex.
Job 38:14 that says “the earth takes the shape of clay underneath a seal…” what other shape does clay underneath a seal take besides flat with bumps protruding out of it?
A pot.
you can also refer to the many times that the Bible calls the earth a circle. And never refers to it as three dimensional.
Thats a stretch.
“And he said to me, “These words are faithful and true”; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. “And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book.” And he said to me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near. Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming quickly.“”… (Revelation 22:6,7,10,12,20)
John recorded that his visions also foretold a return of Jesus near to his day. He was repeatedly told throughout his visions that Jesus was about to return soon. It is unreasonable to think that “near”, “soon” and “coming quickly” could mean thousands of years in the future especially in light of Jesus’ own prophecy that some of his listeners and the high priest would still be alive to see him return.
To anyone not already indoctrinated into Christianity reading the above passages it is crystal clear that according to the Bible Jesus was supposed to return in the first century of the Christian Era. That has not happened. Yet the Christian religion persists with the majority of its adherents still awaiting the return of their savior. How have they reconciled their scriptures to reality?
These passages show that these New Testament writers did believed the apocalypse was very near. They were clear that they were living in the last days when Jesus was to return in the clouds and bring about the end of the world as they knew it.
“For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)
“We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed“ (1 Cor. 15:51)
“…the coming of the Lord is near. …the Judge is standing right at the door.” (James 5:8, 9)
The writer of these passages tells those he was writing to that Jesus was coming in their day. He recognizes that some believers had already died causing concern about the fulfillment of Jesus prediction. He reassures his readers that they would not all die before Jesus comes. He tells them that believers who have died will be resurrected when Jesus returns. Upon his arrival, resurrected believers and those who are still alive will be instantaneously transformed into immortal beings and raptured up together to meet Jesus in the sky.
“For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.” (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17)
“We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed“ (1 Cor. 15:51)
“…the coming of the Lord is near. …the Judge is standing right at the door.” (James 5:8, 9)
The writer of these passages tells those he was writing to that Jesus was coming in their day. He recognizes that some believers had already died causing concern about the fulfillment of Jesus prediction. He reassures his readers that they would not all die before Jesus comes. He tells them that believers who have died will be resurrected when Jesus returns. Upon his arrival, resurrected believers and those who are still alive will be instantaneously transformed into immortal beings and raptured up together to meet Jesus in the sky.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Is there only one god according to the bible?
Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. Deuteronomy 4:35The LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else. Deuteronomy 4:39
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord. Deuteronomy 6:4
See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me. Deuteronomy 32:39
The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God. 1 Kings 18:39
I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Isaiah 43:10
I am the LORD, and there is none else ... There is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. Isaiah 44:8
I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me. Isaiah 45:5-6
There is no God else beside me ... There is none beside me. Isaiah 45:21
I am God, and there is none else: I am God, and there is none like me. Isaiah 46:9
The Lord our God is one Lord. Mark 12:29
There is one God; and there is none other but he. Mark 12:32
That they might know thee the only true God. John 17:3
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him. 1 Corinthians 8:6
More than one god
In the book of Genesis, God used a plural pronoun to refer to himself (herself, itself, or themselves), implying that there is more than one god up there.
And God said, let us make man in our image. Genesis 1:26And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Genesis 3:22
Let us go down, and there confound their language. Genesis 11:7
The Old Testament God is a "god of gods" who is worshiped by the other gods.
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords. Deuteronomy 10:17Worship him, all ye gods. Psalm 97:7
O give thanks unto the God of gods. Psalm 136:2
Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord. Psalm 86:8
He is better than the other gods.
Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? Exodus 15:11Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods. Exodus 18:11
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them. Exodus 20:3-5
Great is our God above all other gods. 2 Chronicles 2:5
Our Lord is above all gods. Psalm 135:5
The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. Jeremiah 10:11
The Hebrew God judges the other gods.
And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment. Exodus 12:12Upon their gods also the LORD executed judgments. Numbers 33:4
God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judgeth among the gods. Psalm 82:1
And will punish them.
I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods. Jeremiah 46:25The Lord will be terrible to them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth. Zephaniah 2:11
He is a jealous God (whose name is Jealous). So he forbids us to "go after" or worship any of his competitors.
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. Exodus 34:14Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you; (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you.) Deuteronomy 6:14-15
Thou shalt not ... go after other gods to serve them. Deuteronomy 28:14
If you give God glory, he'll go easy on you and all your other gods.
Ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods. 1 Samuel 6:5And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt. Jeremiah 25:6
But you must fear God more than all the other gods.
The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. 1 Chronicles 16:25For the Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. Psalm 96:4
Don't sacrfifice to any of the other gods. (Or God will kill you.)
He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Exodus 22:20
Don't put any of the other gods before him.
Thou shalt have none other gods before me. Deuteronomy 5:7
Don't make a covenant with them.Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. Exodus 23:32
Don't burn incense to them.I will utter my judgments against them ... who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods. Jeremiah 1:16
Or even mention their names.Make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth. Exodus 23:13
Put away your father's gods.Fear the Lord ... and put away the gods which your fathers served. Joshua 24:14
And stay away from the god named Chemosh.Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? Judges 11:24
But don't revile the other gods.Thou shalt not revile the gods. Exodus 22:28
Other people served other gods (as did Abraham's father Terah).Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods. Joshua 24:2
And a witch once saw gods going up to heaven.And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 1 Samuel 28:13
Always remember that people are gods too. (Jesus used this when he was accused of making himself a god.)I have said, Ye are gods. Psalm 82:6The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? John 10:33-34
And the three gods in heaven are really only one god. (Don't worry about this one too much. It's a mystery.)For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7
When you are ready.
We are in the 21st century, on the verge of a technological revolution and the dude wants to challenge the many contradictions there are in a book written many centuries ago.
What can go wrong? Hahaha.
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@YouFound_Lxam
No clay underneath a seal does not form a pot? Do you know what a deal is? It’s something they press down on wax or clay to imprint emblems in it.
Also it is not a stretch to see that the Bible commonly calls the earth a circle. That is inaccurate, it is a sphere. If you can’t take the words of something literally they have very little value in my opinion. Granted I am very science oriented in my life. All of my life revolves around science so I view the world in a very reductionist literal way. So I find little value in words that can’t be taken literally
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@Mps1213
A+1
Now I’m sure you’re going to do what all Christian’s have to do to make the Bible make sense. You’re going to begin bending the meaning of words and passages in the name of interpretation or metaphor.
A+1. This is an often default of theist that haven't read the bible for themselves. They will even go as far as to add to these scriptures and even deny that which is actually written. Such as here:
#9 -->
zedvictor4 wrote:If Cain was Number 3.Who did he procreate with when he was banished to Nod.YouFound_Lxam wrote: Not a contradiction, but more or less just a question. He most likely married a daughter of Adam.
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@Stephen
What does that mean
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@YouFound_Lxam
Also i just realized you never addressed my point about the Bible being changed so many times even though that’s supposedly a mortal sin. How do you know you’re worshipping the right Bible? How do you know you’re not committing a mortal sin by reading and worshipping the mortal sins of others? How do you even know your god is the right god? Out of the thousands of gods that have existed what’re the chances you found the right one?
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@Mps1213
What does that mean.
It means that your comment is perfectly true and accurate and deserves the highest mark possible
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@YouFound_Lxam
So.
Don't remember the bible mentioning another family in Nod.
The contradiction is that Adam and Eve were 1 and 2, Cain and Abel 3 and 4.
When there were clearly others elsewhere who produced offspring with Cain.
So who did Adam procreate with in Nod?
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@Barney
True.
But YFL seems to prefer the idea of incest and interbreeding.
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@Stephen
Ah thank you sir
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@FLRW
To anyone not already indoctrinated into Christianity reading the above passages it is crystal clear that according to the Bible Jesus was supposed to return in the first century of the Christian Era. That has not happened. Yet the Christian religion persists with the majority of its adherents still awaiting the return of their savior. How have they reconciled their scriptures to reality?
No this is not true. We do not know the extent of how long humans will be on earth for, before Jesus comes back.
That means that we could go on to survive for thousands, millions, or even billions of years into the future. So, coming back soon does not necessarily mean soon according to John's time. Again, the scripture reads," Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me...". This shows that God is the one speaking, not John. So, according to God, soon, could mean millions of years, or billions of years before the actual end.
These passages show that these New Testament writers did believed the apocalypse was very near. They were clear that they were living in the last days when Jesus was to return in the clouds and bring about the end of the world as they knew it.
Ok? The writers had full right to guess when he would come back. That doesn't mean they had to be right.
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@Stephen
And God said, let us make man in our image. Genesis 1:26And the Lord God said, Behold, then man is become as one of us, to know good and evil. Genesis 3:22Let us go down, and there confound their language. Genesis 11:7The Old Testament God is a "god of gods" who is worshiped by the other gods.
The Trinity.
For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords. Deuteronomy 10:17Worship him, all ye gods. Psalm 97:7O give thanks unto the God of gods. Psalm 136:2Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord. Psalm 86:8He is better than the other gods.Who is like unto thee, O LORD, among the gods? Exodus 15:11Now I know that the LORD is greater than all gods. Exodus 18:11Thou shalt have no other gods before me. ... Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them. Exodus 20:3-5Great is our God above all other gods. 2 Chronicles 2:5Our Lord is above all gods. Psalm 135:5The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. Jeremiah 10:11The Hebrew God judges the other gods.And against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment. Exodus 12:12Upon their gods also the LORD executed judgments. Numbers 33:4God standeth in the congregation of the mighty, he judgeth among the gods. Psalm 82:1And will punish them.I will punish the multitude of No, and Pharaoh, and Egypt, with their gods. Jeremiah 46:25The Lord will be terrible to them: for he will famish all the gods of the earth. Zephaniah 2:11He is a jealous God (whose name is Jealous). So he forbids us to "go after" or worship any of his competitors.For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. Exodus 34:14Ye shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the people which are round about you; (For the LORD thy God is a jealous God among you.) Deuteronomy 6:14-15Thou shalt not ... go after other gods to serve them. Deuteronomy 28:14If you give God glory, he'll go easy on you and all your other gods.Ye shall give glory unto the God of Israel: peradventure he will lighten his hand from off you, and from off your gods. 1 Samuel 6:5And go not after other gods to serve them, and to worship them, and provoke me not to anger with the works of your hands; and I will do you no hurt. Jeremiah 25:6But you must fear God more than all the other gods.The Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. 1 Chronicles 16:25For the Lord ... is to be feared above all gods. Psalm 96:4Don't sacrfifice to any of the other gods. (Or God will kill you.)He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the LORD only, he shall be utterly destroyed. Exodus 22:20Don't put any of the other gods before him.Thou shalt have none other gods before me. Deuteronomy 5:7Don't make a covenant with them.Thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor with their gods. Exodus 23:32Don't burn incense to them.I will utter my judgments against them ... who have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods. Jeremiah 1:16Or even mention their names.Make no mention of the name of other gods, neither let it be heard out of thy mouth. Exodus 23:13Put away your father's gods.Fear the Lord ... and put away the gods which your fathers served. Joshua 24:14And stay away from the god named Chemosh.Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? Judges 11:24But don't revile the other gods.Thou shalt not revile the gods. Exodus 22:28Other people served other gods (as did Abraham's father Terah).Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods. Joshua 24:2And a witch once saw gods going up to heaven.And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 1 Samuel 28:13Always remember that people are gods too. (Jesus used this when he was accused of making himself a god.)I have said, Ye are gods. Psalm 82:6The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? John 10:33-34And the three gods in heaven are really only one god. (Don't worry about this one too much. It's a mystery.)For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 1 John 5:7
At the time, there were a lot of false Gods. When he says he is God of all Gods, he is referring to the false Gods that people perceive as Gods. Idols if you will.
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@Mps1213
Also it is not a stretch to see that the Bible commonly calls the earth a circle. That is inaccurate, it is a sphere. If you can’t take the words of something literally they have very little value in my opinion. Granted I am very science oriented in my life. All of my life revolves around science so I view the world in a very reductionist literal way. So I find little value in words that can’t be taken literally
Does the bible, call it a flat circle? No.
The original translation actually translates to the word round, so not circle.
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@zedvictor4
Don't remember the bible mentioning another family in Nod.The contradiction is that Adam and Eve were 1 and 2, Cain and Abel 3 and 4.When there were clearly others elsewhere who produced offspring with Cain.So who did Adam procreate with in Nod?
The family came from Adam and Eve.
People back then lived hundreds of years.
We don't know how long during Cain and Able, what Adam and Eve were doing.
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@YouFound_Lxam
Which is the "original" translation?
the best interpretation is that adam and eve was not a literal story, given human history evolving the way it did
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@YouFound_Lxam
How do you know “the original” translation? How do you know that’s the correct way to translate the word?
Also basic geometry is knowing that a circle is 2-dimensional, meaning flat.
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@YouFound_Lxam
At the time, there were a lot of false Gods. When he says he is God of all Gods, he is referring to the false Gods that people perceive as Gods. Idols if you will.
Stop it! FFS!
The BIBLE clearly refers to other gods. i.e. "let us go down and confuse their language" Genesis 11:7. How can a "false god" or "idol" do anything?
"The man has become like us". Genesis 3:22. Who are the "us"?
In the midst of the gods he holds judgment.” Psalm 82, Who are these gods that the lord "sat in the midst of"?
These are not "idols" you clown and neither are they "false gods". Why would a god need to sit among "Idols" and "false gods"?
You are a typical bible dunce that cannot accept what the BIBLE actually states. I said above that you would simply flat out deny what the BIBLE states when I said above:
Stephen wrote: They will even go as far as to add to these scriptures and even deny that which is actually written. #16
Tell me, why would your god say on the one hand "do not make a covenant " with those you have called " false gods and idols" and on the other say "Thou shalt not revile these gods." Exodus 22:28 ?
revile
/rɪˈvʌɪl/
verb
- 1.criticize in an abusive or angrily insulting manner:
What would it matter that a man reviles what you call "false gods" and an "idol/s"?
You lost this argument the second you posted your OP. Just like you lost your maiden argument in the religion forum by claiming:
"God exists, and I Can Prove It".
That didn't age well either did it?
Two short planks doesn't even cover it!