Trump and DeSantis will need to go right wing to get the nomination. The democrats can hammer them over abortion laws. It was a huge factor in the last election and will be again in 2024
The key to victory in 2024 for the democrats lies in abortion
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I am not sure if my alliance with pride people extends to defending abortion.
I mean, sure, I can defend trans surgeries done on minors, I can defend that homosexuals deserve rights. Abortion might be a bit hard to defend, but I can pull it off if necessary.
Yeah, abortion rights are extremely popular. opinions of when one should/shouldn't be allowed vary considerably, but the idea that abortion should be banned is wildly unpopular. The idea that anyone would try to run on banning abortion seems insane to me. I know it plays well in a republican primary where a high percentage of voters are rightwing loons, but it is toxic in an actual election.
And ron desantis has come out trying to go even further to the right to outflank trump. This basically makes him unelectable. But is probably his only hope at winning the primary, even if it is extremely remote.
@HistoryBuff
idea that abortion should be banned is wildly unpopular.
So I can be against abortion and also against abortion ban. I might have to consult with LGBT what is their opinion on being against abortion. However, I cannot consistently defend minor trans surgery and condemn abortions at the same time.
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@Vegasgiants
It was a huge factor in the last election and will be again in 2024...
A study I pulled up had 6% GOP say it was the most important issue and abortion didn't even make the chart for Democrat issues. What's the basis for this?
Even Democrats are split on abortion up to 9 months. There's no unifying congressional abortion law for any party. Most of the GOP do not want to change the recent SCOTUS ruling allowing states to make their own local laws, so there most certainly won't be a push from the GOP for a sweeping Congressional federal abortion law.
Sorry for the pun, but Abortion is a dead issue. It even ranked near bottom for 2016.
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@Greyparrot
I don't care about the polls. I saw the midterms. Actions speak louder than words
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@Best.Korea
So I can be against abortion and also against abortion ban.
not really, no. You can be in favor or restrictions on when and where an abortion can be done. But that would still make you someone in favor of abortion, just in the right circumstances. If you are against abortion, then you want no abortions at all.
And a large majority of Americans are in favor of abortion rights for women.
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@Vegasgiants
I don't care about the polls. I saw the midterms.
So a gut opinion.
Noted.
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@HistoryBuff
And a large majority of Americans are in favor of abortion rights for women.
What would a bipartisan Constitutional law enshrining those rights look like to you?
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@Greyparrot
The polls said Hillary would be president. Lol
@HistoryBuff
not really, no. You can be in favor or restrictions on when and where an abortion can be done. But that would still make you someone in favor of abortion, just in the right circumstances. If you are against abortion, then you want no abortions at all. And a large majority of Americans are in favor of abortion rights for women.
What I was saying, I can be against abortions, but still vote against abortion ban. I can say that abortion is wrong, but also at the same time say that we shouldnt make it illegal but we should oppose to it only by spreading the message. So I can have an opinion that abortion is wrong, but at the same time I can refuse to vote to make abortion illegal and punished.
Now, what I cant logically do is be in favor of minor trans surgeries and be against abortion. So I will probably have to stop being against abortions to uphold LGBT, unless I think of some way to solve the contradiction between being for minor trans surgeries but also being against abortions.
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@Best.Korea
but also at the same time say that we shouldn't make it illegal...
What would a bipartisan Constitutional law enshrining those rights look like to you?
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@Greyparrot
Well, the one that solves the problem of:
1) being allowed to kill unborn baby
2) not being allowed to kill born baby
Therefore, abortion would be allowed until birth of the baby, or after some arbitrarily set number, such as "before 6 months of pregnancy", "before 3 months of pregnancy".
I will agree with whatever LGBT agrees with.
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@Best.Korea
It's a big problem because you have 4 dominant camps.
One wants abortion on demand legal up to 9 months.
Another wants abortion legal up to 20 weeks (codifying Roe)
Another wants abortion legal up to an arbitrary time set by a doctor... (that proposed law failed in Congress last year with bipartisan dissent)
And still another group wants abortions federally banned except in rare exceptions where a C-section can't save both the mother and the baby and the fetus must be killed instead to save the mother.
Without a consensus in this culture war, there won't be any unifying Federal law.
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@Greyparrot
Most people seem to agree that abortion should be legal in most cases.
Therefore, group demanding total ban is a minority.
Now, of course, I dont know what the law would look like without doing polls on abortion. I guess the standard should be set by majority opinion in LGBT group.
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@Best.Korea
That group may be a minority, but it also splits the remaining votes of the other 3 groups so that there won't be a 51% consensus. This is the failure of democracy, when there are no binary choices.
Sorry for the pun, but Abortion is a dead issue. It even ranked near bottom for 2016.
It wasn’t an issue until the Supreme Court overturned Roe v Wade.
Now it’s causing Republicans to lose in Red states
One wants abortion on demand legal up to 9 months.
That’s a lie. As usual you lie to try to make a point. There is no “camp” advocating for abortions up to 9 months, let alone a “main camp”
“There are no ninth month abortions. Really. A ninth month abortion is a unicorn and so it’s ridiculous to even discuss it. Terminations after 24 weeks are for severe fetal anomalies.“
Nice statistical source with a sample size of one.
This one claims 19% support for 7-9th month abortions.
Unless you think Democrats are only 19% of the country, that means a large number of Democrats do not want this codified. This is one of the reasons why the 2022 Abortion bill was struck down with bi-partisan dissent.
According to that poll, the only bill that would get bipartisan support is a right to abort within the 1st trimester.
75% of women requesting abortion in the US are in poverty or in the low income bracket. I am glad the South wants a lot more welfare.
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@FLRW
What would a bipartisan Constitutional law enshrining those rights look like to you?
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@Greyparrot
Roe v. Wade
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@FLRW
By my poll, 44% Americans support abortion in all cases up to 6 weeks.
To codify Roe's 20 week suggestion, only 22% support this with no exceptions.
Maybe you should consider some exemptions and/or maybe lower your cutoff date?
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@Greyparrot
By my poll (Pew Research) 61% of Americans say abortion should be legal.
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@FLRW
Let's see it.
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@FLRW
When you start throwing numbers in the poll things get a lot more complicated.
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@Greyparrot
This is the failure of democracy, when there are no binary choices.
I would say that they should go by process of elimination.
For example,
1) Ban abortion completely
Or
2) Allow abortions until 6 weeks of pregnancy
Then, if 2 wins, go for more elimination by another vote:
1) Allow abortions until 6 weeks of pregnancy
Or
2) Allow abortions until 10 weeks of pregnancy.
If 1) wins again, then 1) is perfect.
Democracy is difficult without binary choices. Thats why there is a process of elimination where:
People pick between A and B,
Then if A wins over B, people pick between A and C.
And so on.
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@Best.Korea
According to my poll, it's entirely possible to have a right to abortion up to 14 weeks with exemptions pass Congress.
But I guess if it's easier to get a up to 6 week right to abort with exceptions, then sure, pass that, then build on that.
YES
As you have said
And the Democrats have uttered many many "lies in abortion".
So vote based on
As an example, "Although permissive abortion has been advocated on the grounds it will reduce the prevalence of child abuse and infanticide, there is no evidence to prove it has. There is a growing concern that it may have contributed to the problem. " ( https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/519627/).